The NRA

[SnakeEye]

Its come to my attention that the NRA doesn't (and cannot by law) lobby Congress.
That their charter requires them to spend the money they recieve from dues on firearms safety, range constructions, and educational efforts only. Also that their tax structure dictates that the NRA cannot legally lobby Congress and maintain its status..
So what the hell have i been paying for if theyre hands are legally tied to never lobby and effect gun control laws?
i understand now that their is the NRA-ILA, but ive been paying NRA dues under the false impression that my moneies were helping to fight against gun control..
evidently i was wrong..
Why does my NRA memebrship feel like a tax..

 

[FPrice]

Why does my NRA memebrship feel like a tax..

Maybe you don't quite understand the situation and the complexity of some of the laws which restrict or guide what organizations can do. At least the organizations which work for the honest citizen.

[rant]
I get kind of p*ssed when some people mindlessly promote other gun rights organizations over the NRA because the NRA does much more than every organization combined in other critical areas. How many organizations have national programs of education, safety, training, and shooting competition which are anywhere near the scope of what the NRA does? You may not have thought about it but in supporting these types of programs and making shooting programs a continuing part of our society, the NRA is providing the everyday support to our right to keep and bear arms that may lack the glamour and attention that political efforts receive but keep shooting and firearms ownership in the mainstream of our life.

This is what your NRA dues do. Now you can either fight half the fight, or get involved in all levels. Or you can sit back and complain.

The choice is yours. Learn which parts of the NRA support which programs and get behind them and help.
[/rant]

Disclaimer: If none of the above applies to you personally, please don't take it as such.

 

[bpm990d]

How many organizations have national programs of education, safety, training, and shooting competition which are anywhere near the scope of what the NRA does? You may not have thought about it but in supporting these types of programs and making shooting programs a continuing part of our society, the NRA is providing the everyday support to our right to keep and bear arms that may lack the glamour and attention that political efforts receive but keep shooting and firearms ownership in the mainstream of our life.

Thank you.

B

 

[SnakeEye]

nope it doesnt.
The problem is i, like many are not interested in funding education programs, fancy websites, newletters and shiny magazines.
i want my hard earned dollars to go to the direct legal opposition of gun control laws.
If anything the act of what that one attorney accomplished in DC should be evidnce of what some direct action can accomplish. and he managed to do what he did with only a couple hundred thousand dollars..
I just think about the hundreds of millions of dollars the NRA recieves every year, and i think how many people like me didnt/dont realize that those dollars will never fight a single gun control law.
perhaps its boo on me for not reading the fine print sooner.
but now that i know, i refuse to pay.
How can an organization claim to be a defender of our rights and at the same time be legally inacable of delivering on that promise?

 

[cdkayak]

Without firearms education there are many people we would never reach. My wife is a good example. She was never really anti-gun but was ambivalent to the gun laws until she was exposed to the sport. She is now a strong supporter.

Lobbying is only part of the fight to maintain our rights, if the programs(education and competition) the NRA supports went away there would be a great loss of positive exposure.

 

[SnakeEye]

how did the NRA reach out and educate your wife?
did they solicit her directly as a non shooter?
where exactly does the NRA reach out and seek new and prospective memebers from "outside" the sport?
The nra seems to only be preaching to the choir in that respect.

And again, i feel many people like myseff are simply not aware of the fact that their dollars dutifully paid will never, and can never challenge a single law..

 

[bpm990d]

The problem is i, like many are not interested in funding education programs,...

You should start with yourself.

B

 

[Garys]

Maybe you don't quite understand the situation and the complexity of some of the laws which restrict or guide what organizations can do. At least the organizations which work for the honest citizen.

[rant]
I get kind of p*ssed when some people mindlessly promote other gun rights organizations over the NRA because the NRA does much more than every organization combined in other critical areas.

Great post. NRA membership is worth it because it keeps the NRA running which in turn allows it to run the NRA-ILA. No other organization has as long and successful history of representing ALL gun owners as does the NRA.

EVERY gun owner, no matter what their area of interest should belong to the NRA. It doesn't feel like a tax to me, it feels like freedom.

Gary

 

[Pilgrim]

how did the NRA reach out and educate your wife?

By having NRA certified instructors at NES's Significant Other training last week, for one.

 

[v13]

Where did you hear that the NRA cannot by law lobby congress. I was under the impression that the NRA (well NRA-ILA) was a 501(c)(4) organization which is explicitly allowed by law to lobby congress. Then again I'm no expert in these things.

Its come to my attention that the NRA doesn't (and cannot by law) lobby Congress.
That their charter requires them to spend the money they recieve from dues on firearms safety, range constructions, and educational efforts only. Also that their tax structure dictates that the NRA cannot legally lobby Congress and maintain its status..
So what the hell have i been paying for if theyre hands are legally tied to never lobby and effect gun control laws?
i understand now that their is the NRA-ILA, but ive been paying NRA dues under the false impression that my moneies were helping to fight against gun control..
evidently i was wrong..
Why does my NRA memebrship feel like a tax..

 

[cdkayak]

but now that i know, i refuse to pay.

That's pretty short sighted of you. Part of the power of the NRA-ILA is having the large number of members of the NRA standing behind it. Every one lost weakens the part you seem to care about.

As far as how the NRA has helped educate my wife. After being introduced the firearms by me she has taken it on herself to do more reading, much of it related to the NRA or put out by the NRA. She has also had the opportunity to attend events that would not have been available without NRA funding.

Every year our club sponsors a youth field day where the club is opened to the community in general to expose local families and their children in particular to the activities available at the club. While this wouldn't happen without the volunteer membership, it also wouldn't happen without sponsors one of them being the NRA. We have seen many people stop by just out of curiosity become interested in the shooting sports due to these events.

 

[cdkayak]

By having NRA certified instructors at NES's Significant Other training last week.

That too, I forgot about the instructor programs.

 

[SnakeEye]

That's pretty short sighted of you. Part of the power of the NRA-ILA is having the large number of members of the NRA standing behind it. Every one lost weakens the part you seem to care about.

I said i wouldnt donate to the NRA anymore., Not the NRA-ILA, as that SEPERATE entity does what i thought the NRA was doing but evidently is forbidden from.

Without firearms education there are many people we would never reach. My wife is a good example.

and i asked in reply

how did the NRA reach out and educate your wife?
did they solicit her directly as a non shooter?
where exactly does the NRA reach out and seek new and prospective memebers from "outside" the sport?

to which you answered

As far as how the NRA has helped educate my wife. After being introduced the firearms by me she has taken it on herself to do more reading, much of it related to the NRA or put out by the NRA. She has also had the opportunity to attend events that would not have been available without NRA funding.

So the NRA didnt reach your wife, you did..
offering programs within the confines of gun clubs is again preaching to the choir.

 

[cdkayak]

The NRA has plenty of programs, just because I introduced my wife to shooting doesn't mean that was everyones case. The events I mentioned at the our gun club are open to all, not just shooters.

Every year our club sponsors a youth field day where the club is opened to the community in general to expose local families and their children in particular to the activities available at the club. While this wouldn't happen without the volunteer membership, it also wouldn't happen without sponsors one of them being the NRA. We have seen many people stop by just out of curiosity become interested in the shooting sports due to these events.

Those were non-shooters who came by the club because of an advertised event that was possible because of NRA assistance.

 

[depicts]

Snake Eyes, did you get up on the wrong side of the rock today?

I can't begin to tell you how much I disagree with you. If you can't see the connection between "Glossy" magazines, and creating a positive public image, nothing I say will help you.

If you don't see youth shooting programs funded by the NRA as the future of shooting, by brining in young men and women to our fine sport, hobby, and rights, there is nothing I can say to you.

If you have never benefited by education or programs provided by the NRA, there is nothing I can say to you.


To rail against the most effective organization fighting for your rights today shows me a person who is more interested in yourself than in helping anyone else, even your future descendants.

I feel bad for you Snake Eyes. I don't mean to be insulting or offensive. This forum is supposed to maintain a friendly, family content. How sad it is to me that you would throw the family out, because your wallet is more important to you than your Freedom. All this because you don't understand the issue you are complaining about.

If you don't want to give, don't give. At the same time, think about what you've said. I really don't think you "Get It."


MODERATORS, feel free to delete this message if I have crossed the lines of forum etiquette. I'm am trying my best to refrain from insulting our fellow member. There are so many things I would like to say but won't.. I'm sure others here will be more tactful than I can be.

 

[bpm990d]

Maybe you can join these guys. American Hunters & Shooters. You will fit right in.

B

 

[FPrice]

So the NRA didnt reach your wife, you did..
offering programs within the confines of gun clubs is again preaching to the choir.

You seem to be missing the point. The NRA did reach his wife, in the form of a dedicated NRA member, i.e., cdkayak himself! Do you recall the old NRA publicity campaign entitled "I Am The NRA"??? There are probably millions of examples of the NRA reaching non-shooters in just this manner that is through the efforts of NRA members to promote our cause. The NRA then provided the training his wife needed to become a safe firearms owner.

You seem to be reaching for examples to prove that the NRA is not doing the job you want it to do. I am trying hard to keep this on a high level of discussion but it is getting difficult. Talking to dedicated anti-gun people is one thing. But having to demonstrate the necessity of a strong and dynamic organization which promotes all aspects of our shared passion to another gun-owner makes one wonder.

 

[SnakeEye]

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[SnakeEye]

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[drgrant]

Another thing people don't talk about a lot.. the NRA does offer grants
on occasion to help out shooting ranges and the like. IMO this is
important as it protects the "back end". The antis may lose legislatively
but if they can close all the gun clubs that's almost as bad in and of
itself.

-Mike

 

[EddieCoyle]

Let me take a crack at this...

So of all the money you paid for life memberships to the NRA, not one single cent went to the legal fight against firwarms control.

Not directly. But the NRA is very important in the fight against gun control laws because the NRA is responsible for a whole lot of people becoming firearms enthusiasts. These "gun people" (people like us) - acting as a voting block - are the only thing that keeps Congress from enacting bad gun control legislation. Or to put it very simply:

More shooters = Less gun control​

The NRA proper (as opposed to the NRA-ILA) takes a longer term view. They are responsible for either introducing, or making it possible to introduce people to the shooting sports. Here's what I mean:

I'm talking guns with a co-worker. Another co-worker strolls up, asks about it, and says that he'd like to go shooting sometime. I send him to the NRA website to read up. I take him to a range that was built with NRA money and he has a blast at an NRA-sponsored event. He ends up taking a handgun safety course from an NRA instructor and applies for a Class A LTC. He's from Quincy so he doesn't get an ALP license. The next thing you know he's very interested in how his legislators are voting WRT gun control, he's writing emails and letters to his represenatives, etc. He wasn't an "anti" before, but he didn't give a shit either. However, now gun control has become a big issue with him, and he'll vote accordingly.

Without the NRA, it's unlikely that the above scenario would have been able to happen. I've had very similar experiances with other co-workers, friends, family members, and business associates.

With the NRA's help. I've personally been able to bring at least a dozen voters over to our side of this issue.

The NRA-ILA can lobby all it wants. If there's no voting shooters to back them up, they have no leverage. None.

 

[TomH]

I don't think his point is that the NRA doesn't do anything positive for gun owners, because obviously they do run a lot of programs etc, and help people get training and education on firearms. I think the point was more they aren't as active in the political/lawmaking field as some other orgs are. The DC case where one man set out to personally challenge the law there is considered by some as a breakthrough, and is certainly astounding to say the least. I would like to see more of that, but I don't think that the NRA is going to do it! There was also a recent post where some members mentioned that the NRA probably "gave up" on trying to change the MA laws or influence them. I'm not saying the NRA is bad, I'm just saying they aren't taking the same kind of action that got the DC gun laws overturned (so far) in court. I can see this as a reason why someone would rather donate their money to say, GOAL, who actively lobbys and files legislation etc, if your goal is to get rid of or defend against what you see as unjust laws. Just my two cents, but people are getting a bit too personal with some of the comments...

-Tom

 

[SnakeEye]

...

 

[SnakeEye]

THE ILA

Established in 1975, the Institute for Legislative Action (ILA) is the “lobbying” arm of the National Rifle Association of America. ILA is committed to preserving the right of all law-abiding individuals to purchase, possess and use firearms for legitimate purposes as guaranteed by the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. ILA’s ability to fight successfully for the rights of America’s law-abiding gun owners directly reflects the support of NRA’s more than 4 million members—a number that has more than tripled since 1978. When restrictive “gun control” legislation is proposed at the local, state or federal level, NRA members and supporters are alerted and respond with individual letters, faxes, e-mails and calls to their elected representatives to make their views known.

THE NRA

Dismayed by the lack of marksmanship shown by their troops, Union veterans Col. William C. Church and Gen. George Wingate formed the National Rifle Association in 1871. The primary goal of the association would be to "promote and encourage rifle shooting on a scientific basis," according to a magazine editorial written by Church.

After being granted a charter by the state of New York on November 17, 1871, the NRA was founded. Civil War Gen. Ambrose Burnside, who was also the former governor of Rhode Island and a U.S. Senator, became the fledgling NRA's first president.

so you do see the difference?

the misconception, and my problem,
is that there is a myth being perpetuated that the NRA (proper) and its misinformed membership that the NRA is fighting legally to combat restrictive gun control laws..
many people donate, including myself, based upon these pretenses.

but the fact of the matter is that theh NRA-ILA, an organziation very few shooters know about much less donate to is the one in charge of that fight..
Im not saying that the NRA does no good, im saying that many people donate under false pretense.
thay are forbidden from lobbying and defending our lights on the legal front.

 

[depicts]

The case in Washington D.C. is just one case, hand picked by the attorney, with hand selected defendants. Granted, I am thrilled by what they accomplished. I too would like to see more successes like that in the courts. The problem is, there aren't too many rich, independent attorneys who want to take on similar challenges for personal reasons. That's one reason that we need a large organization to show our strength and unity.

To separate the NRA from the NRA/ILA is in my opinion akin to cutting off your head to spite your nose.

And I can see the difference between the charters of the NRA and the NRA/ILA. The NRA/ILA had to be formed to conform to some fund raising and lobbying regulations in 1974. Before that, the NRA did promote legislation.

I think we need more, not less support of the NRA and of course the NRA/ILA

 

[cdkayak]

Without one there wouldn't be the other(NRA and NRA-ILA), they are both needed and they work together.

 

[SnakeEye]

Without one there wouldn't be the other(NRA and NRA-ILA), they are both needed and they work together.

The problem is that they arent working together,and theres very little distinction between the two and their two very different objectives.
Add to the that the fact that memberships mandated by gun clubs do not extend to the ILA. SO although it may help their educational ends, it doesnt help to preserve their overall rights.
So in effect we are fighting a lopsided battle with the lions share of voluntary funding going to the education side and not the fight against gun control in the courts.
the problem is many people who donate to the NRA, think they are..

 

[FPrice]

so you do see the difference?

Yes, we see the difference. One is a modern-day explanation of the mission of the NRA-ILA while the other is a quote from 1871 or thereabouts that explained the reason the NRA was first formed. A time when anti-gun efforts were not nearly the problem that they are today.

Do YOU see the difference?

 

[SnakeEye]

Yes, we see the difference. One is a modern-day explanation of the mission of the NRA-ILA while the other is a quote from 1871 or thereabouts that explained the reason the NRA was first formed. A time when anti-gun efforts were not nearly the problem that they are today.

Do YOU see the difference?

when you have something of meaning to contribute please feel free to do so..
if i didnt see the difference i wouldnt be here trying to explain it to you..
are you really that obstinant?

 

[FPrice]

are you really that obstinant?

Only about as obstinant as you and your relentless attack on the NRA. I (among others) have pointed out several times why your position is in error but you refuse to see the other side.

As far as your personal feelings about the NRA, I could not care less. That is between you and your opinions.

However, when you try to portray the NRA in an erroneous light and use false logic and misleading quotes from about 100 years apart I will challenge your assertions and demonstrate the depth of your lack of knowledge.

Besides, it's good practise for talking to anti's.