The Flinch who Stole Christmas

matt · Mar 3, 2006

Need some advice...

I seem to be suffering from flinching and/or recoil anticipation. I'm relatively new to this, so be patient with me...

I went to the range today and started out with a little dry fire. I've been doing dry fire exercise at home and have been getting better at holding the sites steady. Clearly still needs work though.

So I went to the range again today. Still shooting consistantly 4" groups 3-4" low at 7yds. I did 40 rounds from bench rest and did much better. 2" groups centered ~1" low.

After 150 rounds, really concentrating on my grip, I was doing a bit better.

After running out of ammo, I went back to dryfiring a bit and was shocked by what I saw. The first few pulls at the trigger the front site involuntarily shot downwards in a way it never normally moves during my dryfiring. It was like I was watching someone else pull the trigger. I had no control over it. My mind was expecting the bang and respondedd accordingly.

Any thoughts on how to improve this?

Thanks,
Matt

Moderator · Mar 3, 2006

Try getting some very good earmuffs. Maybe even wear plugs with muffs. This will help the noise.

C-pher · Mar 3, 2006

matt · Mar 4, 2006

Moderator said:
Try getting some very good earmuffs. Maybe even wear plugs with muffs. This will help the noise.

Wearing plugs with good muffs is what I'm seeing in my search for info about this. A couple of places have also suggested shooting with eyes closed (obviously need a shooting partner for this!).

I just want to make sure I train out of this rather than into it (one of the reasons I'm taking Jim Conway's class coming up). Reducing the bang can only help. Any other ideas are appreciated.

I hope to get to the range again today or tomorrow and I'll give the plugs+muffs a try.

Thanks,
Matt

KMaurer · Mar 4, 2006

Get some good dummy rounds and mix them in at random with your live ammunition. Then fire slowly while concentrating on maintaining the proper sight picture throughout the process. You end up with a mix of dry and live fire, never knowing which it's going to be. Start with mostly dummy rounds and, as you become able to maintain the proper point of aim consistently, move to mostly live rounds. This works better with revolvers, since you don't have to manually rack the slide whenever you come down on a dummy. (And don't use those cheap all-plastic rounds; the rims will end up breaking off either when the firing pin hits or when you try to extract them.) The other advice people gave is right on. The better your hearing protection, the the fewer problems you'll have anticipating or flintching. Recoil is 98% mental.

Ken

matt · Mar 4, 2006

Good idea. I bought some dummy rounds for teaching my wife to handle the gun, and I'll add that in this afternoon along with the better ear protection. (did I really pay that much for 5 dummy round [shocked]

? That's like 30X what an actual round costs!!)

I've also been using electronic ear protection. I'll leave it turned off this afternoon.

Thanks,
Matt

TY43215 · Mar 4, 2006

matt said:
Good idea. I bought some dummy rounds for teaching my wife to handle the gun, and I'll add that in this afternoon along with the better ear protection. (did I really pay that much for 5 dummy round ? That's like 30X what an actual round costs!!)

I've also been using electronic ear protection. I'll leave it turned off this afternoon.

Thanks,
Matt

What are you shooting for a firearm?

regards,

matt · Mar 4, 2006

The Flinch who Stole Christmas, range update

OK, so I did what you guys said, plus a little more, and made some measurable progress. Still not perfect, but getting there (these are at 25' with SIG226 in 9mm):

Before [sad]

:

After

:

The double ear protection definitely helped.

Also, one of the things I read somewhere online was to watch the muzzle flip and keep an eye on the front site after the shot. You can't do this if you are flinching. It occurred to me that I had not consciously observed the muzzle flip. By really trying to do this, I was forcing myself not to flinch and very aware of when I did.

Unfortunately, I forgot the dummy rounds at home, so I'll add that in next week.

Still needs some work, but getting better!

Thanks,
Matt

Moderator · Mar 4, 2006

Glad it helped. Just remember, practice, practice, practice [wink]

JGG · Mar 5, 2006

It has been my experience that most new shooters do better at centerfire by starting with a revolver. I try to start them with a 357 medium to heavy frame revolver using target wadcutter loads, then moving to full 38 loads, and then onto 357 to allow them to get use to the report and recoil. I then go onto semi autos, with there extra slide distraction, and most people who have had problems in the past have been greatful.
Another very good exercise I was taught is to substitute a blank sheet in place of the target to concentrate on breath and trigger control. This is a very good place to have someone load some dummy rounds in with regular rounds. If you use a revolver here you can load and spin the cylinder ruilet like.

Good shooting
Jim

Lynne · Mar 5, 2006

Matt, sometimes some of my students improve by doing this - I tell them to make sure their grip is correct before each shot. Line up the front site, take your breath and just as you start to pull the trigger (slowly), keep repeating over and over again, and quickly, "front sight, trigger squeeze, front sight, trigger squeeze, front sight, trigger squeeze, etc. etc. etc. Keep thinking about those two things as your squeezing the trigger - keeping your eye on the front sight. Sometimes that helps my students focus more and forget the gun will go bang. It's kind of like taking your mind off the fact that it will go off...sort of. It has helped some of them get over the flinch.

joe6486 · Mar 6, 2006

One technique a friend of mine used with me is to move over to a 22 the moment the flinching starts. Since there's essentially no recoil in the 22, shooting a magazine carefully through it really helps get rid of the habit. When you're convinced you've stopped flinching, move back to your bigger pistol.

Bugs100 · Mar 6, 2006

I agree with the 22 I usally warm up on a 22 before I start with the heavy calibers. Also turning the target around and not having to concentrate on the bull eye helps. It lets you focus on your grip, trigger control and recovery from the recoil more easily.

matt · Mar 6, 2006

I was in AG this afternooon looking at a MKII and MKIII... I think I need one!

Watching the front site was really helping yesterday. I spent time training myself to really watch the recoil, see the slide come back toward me, the case eject, etc.

Also remembered my snap caps. Boy, is that revealing!!

Matt

howie · Mar 11, 2006

hi
what might help too is taking a pistol class . pm jim conway and sign up for
a class . jim is a very good teacher. i have been shooting for 20 year and i was pretty good and 3 years ago i start shooting with jim on sundays and with in weeks i went from 4 in groups to 1 hole groups . trust me a class
will help.and when you go to the range you will have more fun. shooting
1 holes . and your shooting buddys are not.
my 2 cents
howie

matt · Mar 11, 2006

howie said:
hi
what might help too is taking a pistol class . pm jim conway and sign up for
a class . jim is a very good teacher. i have been shooting for 20 year and i was pretty good and 3 years ago i start shooting with jim on sundays and with in weeks i went from 4 in groups to 1 hole groups . trust me a class
will help.and when you go to the range you will have more fun. shooting
1 holes . and your shooting buddys are not.
my 2 cents
howie

I'm a step ahead of you!! I signed up for Jim's class (look here) for April 22nd. Really looking forward to it.

I'm improving a little, but had a lousy day today. Grip needs work I think...

Matt

howie · Mar 11, 2006

the flinch

hi matt
if you want to come to tyngsboro tomorrow at 9am . jim and i and some of the other guys who train will jim all the time .will be there from 9am to 12pm
you can get a crash course . sight pitcher!!!! and reset!!!! and maybe some more pm me if you want to join us
howie

Kalahari · Mar 18, 2006

Matt -

I got a book from a safety course I took in November that has a few little diagrams about common shooting errors and what they generally look like. I took a quick glance at your targets and how the book address' them. In the first target I thought that some of your shots were low and to the left, and according to the book this is due to jerking of the trigger. It says to slowly squeeze, being sure not to disturb sight alignment. You seem to have that problem fixed, but it may be something you could think about. I could be completely wrong, I'm just going by the book. Hope this helps.

matt · Mar 18, 2006

Update and thanks

Kalahari,

Thanks. I assume you are talking about something like this?:
http://northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=5032

Just to let everyone know, all the advice has not fallen on deaf ears. Here is todays range results at 10yds (ok, they are the pick of the litter, but still not too bad! [smile]

):

Best two handed:

Best offhand:

EDIT: One thing I noticed during the week was that I was not griping the gun very tight when dryfiring. The grip position was correct, just not the right tension. I tightened this up to a reasonably firm grip. I think it helped.

Thanks,
Matt

Lynne · Mar 20, 2006

Much better hun. Re: 1st pic - doncha just HATE those fliers?? [laugh]

Moderator · Mar 20, 2006

Just remember; Shake hands with your gun, don't choke the $H!T out of it.

Lynne · Mar 20, 2006

Moderator said:
Just remember; Shake hands with your gun, don't choke the $H!T out of it.

"Hello Mr. Smith, Mr. Wesson. It's certainly a pleasure to meet you."

[laugh]

Moderator · Mar 20, 2006

Very cute Lynne [grin]

Lynne · Mar 20, 2006

Moderator said:
Very cute Lynne

I try.

The Flinch who Stole Christmas

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