The Five NEVERS of Self-Defense

[bigben111435]

View attachment 504651
this works also

Your 2nd rule is golden to me.
It is a good way to not be a victim either mentally or physically.
Every situation, action/consequence in life, if a person can try to reflect after the fact as to how they could have shaped the outcome to be better or worse, they will eventually realize the individual power a person has to make their own life. EXISTENTIALISM

 

[Buck F]

I always tell my kids that in a situation like the ones described always act, make a decision, right or wrong but do something. Most bad guys will expect people just to submit but that is the wrong choice. When my daughter was an RA in college they had to do group meetings so my daughter talked with the local police and they would send in self defense experts( and spring for pizza) to teach the young women how to defend themselves in a violent situation and to the cops credit they never said just to acquiesce , they said always fight back.

There's one lesson from my Krav instructor that I'll never forget. It involves knife defenses, but IMO it applies to gun and any other threat from which you can't retreat. He said "You have to decide here and now what you're going to do if situation x arises. Decide now, you can't wait until the situation happens to make that decision". That really stuck with me. The particular scenario was someone reaching for a knife or someone holding a knife but they haven't attacked you yet. Of course there's a big difference if you're carrying in that situation or not and his advice was for those not carrying, but it applies regardless. The second part of the advice is that once you hit the go button you have to become the attacker and not stop until the threat is stopped (again, big difference whether you're carrying or not).

Another thing they stress is the difference between the "want something from you" versus "want to do something to you" threats. Someone who pulls a gun and demands your wallet doesn't want to shoot you, they want your wallet, they're often desperate and just as scared as you are. If they wanted you dead, they'd have already shot you. Toss the wallet on the ground and walk/run away. Someone who pulls a gun and tells you to go somewhere/get in the car doesn't want your wallet, they want to abduct/harm you and you need to stop that ASAP. Two very different threat levels/responses.

 

[MaxStravinsky]

A good reminder for all.……especially for our daughters and nieces.

Bob

Yep - what I always had drilled into me was, NEVER let them get you in a car!

 

[FPrice]

• #2: NEVER give up your gun. This standard Hollywood trope, where the hero gives up his gun because the villain is threatening Sweet Polly Purebred or whomever, and then manages to free them both through some brilliant stratagem, only works in the hands of a trained and certified member of the Writers’ Guild. Don’t let him have your gun: just “Let him have it.”

This is, as a few others have pointed out, is the most difficult scenario to face and react to. The closer that "hostage" is to you (in particular a spouse) the worse it can be.

Many years back, on the West Coast, the head of a national shooting organization put a few of us through a training scenario based on such a situation. It was a live shoot under tightly controlled safety conditions. The scenario was a "bad breath" distance stand-off between us students (one at a time of course) and two targets representing a shooter with a hostage covering most of the shooter's body and part of their head. The instructor provided the verbal cues with a rapidly escalating dialogue approaching a threat to shoot the hostage NOW!

I was able to make the shot on the shooter target but I vividly remember the next five minutes shaking from the adrenaline dump.

 

[Garys]

I am reminded of a 22 y/o girl from NYC who was in Boston for some reason. She hooked up with a couple of black guys at a club and went off somewhere with them for some excitement. She ended up sitting in a SUV in Roxbury with a bullet in her head. Probably more excitement than she wanted.

She violated what her mother probably told her 1,000 times. "Don't get in a car with a stranger."

Although this really isnt an SA thing its related.

Avoid doing Stupid things in Stupid places with Stupid people. Usually when you see some news thing involving some poor bastard that didn't need to die, he or she was violating any
of these, although more commonly it is all 3 at once. Often times avoiding at least ONE of those characteristics and drastically lower risk.

 

[Nightshift]

Makes sense when you read them. Definitely things to talk about with your spouse, family and friends. Unfortunately, most people will see each of them as a possible way out or de-escalation. Nope! It’s like screaming at a character in a horror movie to not open the door. They always open the door!

 

[TZCHRIS]

street fights, especially with junkies who do not feel any pain are, well, can be sketchy things. you may end up more f-ed up than you would ever anticipate.
rule #0, again.

This...........
I did already post this link but bears repeating as this was recent here in Vegas. I'm not commenting on this exact situation as its not known but I know many LEO who when confronted by a homeless dude would pump up the chest and say "I can F you up"

Chicopee man killed in Vegas was retired CT state trooper

CHICOPEE, MA (WGGB/WSHM) -- A Chicopee resident and former Connecticut State Trooper was killed in Las Vegas.

www.westernmassnews.com

 

[TZCHRIS]

Yep - what I always had drilled into me was, NEVER let them get you in a car!

Same here, when I was 16 I worked at a service station in Mansfield, I probably looked 12 at the time due to my size. Had a guy pull in and say his car was making a strange noise and wanted me to hop in and see if I could "diagnose" it. Told him no, pull it into garage, I'll look. He insisted I needed to hop in and we go around the block to hear the noise. I refused and he sped away! 35 years later I still remember like it was yesterday, glad I had the smarts back then, I just wish I got the plate number.

 

[AHM]

... my Krav instructor ... Another thing they stress is the difference between the "want something from you" versus "want to do something to you" threats. Someone who pulls a gun and demands your wallet doesn't want to shoot you, they want your wallet, they're often desperate and just as scared as you are. If they wanted you dead, they'd have already shot you. Toss the wallet on the ground and walk/run away. Someone who pulls a gun and tells you to go somewhere/get in the car doesn't want your wallet, they want to abduct/harm you and you need to stop that ASAP. ...

Resource predators vs. process predators.

 

[Buck F]

Resource predators vs. process predators.

Yes, I vaguely remember him using language to that effect.

 

[whatluck]

of all such articles i always recall an old saying - wise people never put themselves into situations the smart people easily find a solution for.
situation awareness is #0. if properly used, no need for all other 5.

i agree, except shit happens, and death comes at you fast

 

[whatluck]

How often do you find your self "street fighting" junkies?

I was coming out of the Quincy Stop and Shop with a 8 mos pregnant Mrs. Luck at 7:30 am and a guy comes up to us asking for money. His voice sounded nice but his body language didn't match what he was saying, big red flag. He was also talking to and approaching the Mrs and not me, another big red flag. He got closer and I could tell he was dope sick. I told him I didn't have any cash and he got MEAN. Ended up using my voice and getting away, but it could have easily gone bad.

 

[whatluck]

Yep - what I always had drilled into me was, NEVER let them get you in a car!

never move to a secondary location. if they try to move you, you're already dead, and you should fight like a dead man.

 

[AHM]

Yes, I vaguely remember him using language to that effect.

(You can see from that linked post that the last time it
took a while for me to get the actual source material).

 

[Devils Paintbrush]

Fight like you life depends on it, because it just might.

Story of a woman who fought and won because her life depended on it.

Susan K

 

[alan226]

I recently saw a video of a retired Seal saying basically the same thing. The very best self defense is to avoid the fight. Until you CAN'T run away and have to fight. This goes as much for retarded road rage or bar fight situations as much as it goes for "the zodiac killer is trying to kill you" situations. Road rage/bar fights, who cares if everyone there thinks you're a pussy for running away? It's not important to prove how tough you are to some hardo stranger. What if you kick his ass and he hits his head and dies? What if he catches you on the button and you hit your head and die/or spend the rest of your life talking like you have a mouth full of syrup? Let the high school kids have the fist fights. Way too much to lose as an adult if something f***ed up happens.

A wise man one told me that no matter how tough you are, there will always be someone tougher.....

 

[AHM]

P. S. Note well who gives hearty approval of Frank's tactical skills.

Spoiler

 

[jhblaze1]

A wise man one told me that no matter how tough you are, there will always be someone tougher.....

that and also these days you never know who is into MMA. Sometimes it's too dark to get a good look at their ears before puffing up your chest lol, next thing you know the skinny little punk you're about to thrash is the next f***ing Connor McGreggor and he kicks you in the face 6 times before you even get to say "hold my beer" to your pals.

 

[Dennis in MA]

• #4: NEVER let someone a dude tie you up.

Possibly let a woman, depending on scenario.

You've never seen Something Wild with Melanie Saggybewb Griffin then????

 

[wilson911]

I was coming out of the Quincy Stop and Shop with a 8 mos pregnant Mrs. Luck at 7:30 am and a guy comes up to us asking for money. His voice sounded nice but his body language didn't match what he was saying, big red flag. He was also talking to and approaching the Mrs and not me, another big red flag. He got closer and I could tell he was dope sick. I told him I didn't have any cash and he got MEAN. Ended up using my voice and getting away, but it could have easily gone bad.

So, no street fighting? No confirmed junky? You left a grocery store and went to your car?

 

[LLF]

I was coming out of the Quincy Stop and Shop with a 8 mos pregnant Mrs. Luck at 7:30 am and a guy comes up to us asking for money. His voice sounded nice but his body language didn't match what he was saying, big red flag. He was also talking to and approaching the Mrs and not me, another big red flag. He got closer and I could tell he was dope sick. I told him I didn't have any cash and he got MEAN. Ended up using my voice and getting away, but it could have easily gone bad.

When I'm at BGRA in Dorchester I always make sure I have some small bills, 1s and 5s. I get hit up for money all the time in that area by derelicts and junkies, giving them a couple of bucks makes them go away quietly. I also have a 365 XL in my waistband. I'd much rather be out 5 or 10 bucks than 10,000 for a lawyer,

 

[SHOCKNAWE]

When I'm at BGRA in Dorchester I always make sure I have some small bills, 1s and 5s. I get hit up for money all the time in that area by derelicts and junkies, giving them a couple of bucks makes them go away quietly. I also have a 365 XL in my waistband. I'd much rather be out 5 or 10 bucks than 10,000 for a lawyer,

So you pull out a wad and peel off one bill? That doesn’t entice them to want ALL of it? I cannot even imagine making sure I got money for junkies, but to each his own

 

[whatluck]

When I'm at BGRA in Dorchester I always make sure I have some small bills, 1s and 5s. I get hit up for money all the time in that area by derelicts and junkies, giving them a couple of bucks makes them go away quietly. I also have a 365 XL in my waistband. I'd much rather be out 5 or 10 bucks than 10,000 for a lawyer,

Some people you can't reason with. Fortunately his mind wasn't so broken he could still listen to reason.

 

[whatluck]

So you pull out a wad and peel off one bill? I cannot even imagine making sure I got money for junkies, but to each his own

You keep them in a decoy wallet. Usually I don't give money because they lie. They'll be dressed nicer than me, or not really dope sick, or have some BS story I'll keep walking. This guy really was homeless and was really sick, but I really didn't have any money to give him. He was also fidgety, twitchy, nervous, looking around, agitated, and between me and my car. Reacted really negatively when I said no and tried getting closer. That was like 5 years ago, I'm sure he's dead now.

 

[Poxbox]

Never give up!!!

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJ2hJezvd2I

 

[SHOCKNAWE]

You keep them in a decoy wallet. Usually I don't give money because they lie. They'll be dressed nicer than me, or not really dope sick, or have some BS story I'll keep walking. This guy really was homeless and was really sick, but I really didn't have any money to give him. He was also fidgety, twitchy, nervous, looking around, agitated, and between me and my car. Reacted really negatively when I said no and tried getting closer. That was like 5 years ago, I'm sure he's dead now.

I’m not around them much anymore but what has always worked for me is Looking them straight in the eye and giving them a firm “no” and moving along. I have zero sympathy for them sick or not, I literally hate everything about them.

 

[paul73]

So you pull out a wad and peel off one bill? That doesn’t entice them to want ALL of it? I cannot even imagine making sure I got money for junkies, but to each his own

from life in NYC - you always have a small clip with 2 $20 bills in other pocket... sometimes it is easier to part with small amount than to bring up a huge escalation.
but, if escalation comes - it comes, what to do.

 

[SHOCKNAWE]

from life in NYC - you always have a small clip with 2 $20 bills in other pocket... sometimes it is easier to part with small amount than to bring up a huge escalation.
but, if escalation comes - it comes, what to do.

I lived in Chicago off of Lake Shore Drive so I know all about the big city and shitbag junkies.

 

[Deleted member 12999]

One of the challenges is recognizing what type of predators you are dealing with, which takes insight and experience. The 'interview' process is ongoing, and they are constantly weighing the risk vs rewards with you.
My analogy has always been violence is fire. You need to recognize it early enough and apply the proper amount of extinguisher... or it will burn so out of control that you can't stop it.

 

[Garys]

If you look like a victim, there's a good chance you will become a victim.

One of the challenges is recognizing what type of predators you are dealing with, which takes insight and experience. The 'interview' process is ongoing, and they are constantly weighing the risk vs rewards with you.
My analogy has always been violence is fire. You need to recognize it early enough and apply the proper amount of extinguisher... or it will burn so out of control that you can't stop it.