The attitude we are up against

[calsdad]

Unfortunately, we are up against more than just your average 'joe' with a delusional perspective of our Constitutional rights. In my opinion, such a textbook example may not even be a 'genuine' person- but, rather, part of a much larger effort to influence public opinion at a greater level by our government and the private agencies they pay to do their bidding. Let's be honest, that comment went beyond the average uninformed gun-scared citizen, there were conditioning elements involved (i.e. guns no longer needed since the 1960's).

The US Government is actively involved in contracting private companies to log into forums, websites, and social networking sites to do nothing all day but spout disinfo, misinfo, and effectively steer whole topics, discussions, and comment sections in a desired direction, as if people weren't already dumbed down enough. This sounds certifiably crazy, except for the fact that it's very real: link, link. What really bothers me is that I've been seeing this far too often, and I think we would all be pretty well amazed if we understood the full extent of how many sites have been, and still are being, effectively infiltrated and subverted.

I only say this because we are not just witnessing blatant ignorance anymore, instead, there appear to be far more deliberate attempts actively made by our government and contracted agencies to manipulate and direct public thought in ways which truly do not serve the best interests of it's people. Of course, it's always sold to the American public as if it's in our best interests, but I think we fully understand how this game works by now.

This is why - when I have the energy - I hammer the crap out of people who show up here on NES and post this kind of drivel.

There's an awful lot of people sitting on the sidelines reading this stuff who never comment. People who post crap like that guy posted need to be argued down - not necessarily shouted down. They can't just be ignored - because even if he isn't some government stooge - when they spout crap like that guy did - and don't get any pushback, they interpret that as acceptance.

 

[Alchemist17]

There is no reasoning with anti-gun people. You have as much chance of winning the argument as they do of changing your opinion of the second ammendment. These discussions ALWAYS end with 2 people walking away from each other thinking "what an a**h***."

The only way that attitudes about guns can be changed in the long term is to get people when they are young. Teach your children, and your friend's children about freedom and the evils of government. Only then do we have a chance.

I have to disagree in part here. In my experience there's two distinct types of "antis". The first have a personal interest in the anti-gun stance. Perhaps someone in their family committed suicide or was killed in gang violence, or some other tragic occurrence, and they blamed the gun rather than the person using it. To give up their anti-gun status requires a major shift in their worldview, and requires them to deal with the fact that blaming the gun has allowed them to avoid. Others have just incorporated this into a worldview that defines them and which they have no real desire to re-evaluate. These people are going to be very hard to convince.

But as a result of "progressive education", there are also a significant number of "antis" who are anti-gun mainly because that's what was the socially expected thing to do. Many of them don't really care that much about specific issues and really haven't given the issue much thought - it's just one of the many things they were taught and just regurgitated wholesale. These antis are much more likely to turn, because they don't really have anything invested in the anti-gun position, it was just something that came with the package. Show them why it doesn't make sense and they may well adjust their views.

 

[Terminator03]

Honestly, I'm not convinced that the issue for a lot of these people is fear but control. Not "I don't want you to have guns" control per se, but a "crime can be controlled if only we control the mechanical means to cause crime". We tend to discount this argument, since people have been committing crime since we had the sharp pointy stick (and likely before), so any talk about removing the means isn't likely to help. But I believe for a substantial number of people believing that gun control would work if just "done right" allows them to avoid dealing with the reality that there's some base level of crime that will never go away, and is just due to human nature.

You make an excellent point here that is very well supported by the happenings over in Great Britain. Their great plan sure curbed the crime didn't it?

 

[OfficerObie59]

What happened in the 1960's? Did all crime end? Where all criminals jailed or eliminated? All of these reports on the news about armed robberies and rapes and criminal activites must be a Hollywood movie?

What a frackin' moron this guy is.

The 1960's saw some of the biggest increases of crime in the nations history.

 

[bfm]

Here we go......people who own guns are usually unfit to carry. If you own a gun especially a handgun, you are an insecure and very irrational, and therefore you are unfit to carry.

Yossarian: Is Orr crazy?
Dr. 'Doc' Daneeka: Of course he is. He has to be crazy to keep flying after all his close calls he's had.
Yossarian: Why can't you ground him?
Dr. 'Doc' Daneeka: I can, but first he has to ask me.
Yossarian: That's all he's gotta do to be grounded?
Dr. 'Doc' Daneeka: That's all.
Yossarian: Then you can ground him?
Dr. 'Doc' Daneeka: No. Then I cannot ground him.
Yossarian: Aah!
Dr. 'Doc' Daneeka: There's a CATCH?
Yossarian: A catch?
Dr. 'Doc' Daneeka: Sure. Catch-22. Anyone who wants to get out of combat isn't really crazy, so I can't ground him.
Yossarian: Ok, let me see if I've got this straight. In order to be grounded, I've got to be crazy. And I must be crazy to keep flying. But if I ask to be grounded, that means I'm not crazy anymore, and I have to keep flying.
Dr. 'Doc' Daneeka: You got it, that's Catch-22.
Yossarian: Whoo... That's some catch, that Catch-22.
Dr. 'Doc' Daneeka: It's the best there is