Tavor X95 Preban Compatible Mags

[Dunphy1296]

I picked up a Tavor X95 last week. I have not got the chance to shoot it yet, but I hope to in the coming days. I'm posting this thread because my Tavor X95 came with a 20 round colt preban mag thrown in. The problem is that the bolt is not locking back on that mag. The bolt locks back fine with the 10 round PMAG that the gun normally comes with, but the lock just won't recognize the 20 round preban. I went to a local store today that got a shipment of preban mags in. They were the same 20 round colt prebans that my gun came with. I tried a few of them, and the bolt refused to lock back on any of them. So I'm forced to conclude that the X95 just doesn't like the colt 20 round mags. I can't find anyone else discussing this online, but this seems to be the case.

So I'm posting this thread to ask people what preban mags they use with their Tavor X95 (or SAR I guess) that operate properly. One of the major selling points of the X95, especially in MA, is that it takes standard stanag mags which leaves open the possibility of using prebans. I see many people discussing preban mag compatibility with the X95, but nobody reports exactly which preban mags the gun likes. What preban mags should I be looking for that the Tavor X95 will operate well with.

 

[92G]

Nothing wrong w the mags or the X95. Upgrade your mags w magpul antitilt follower will fix issue And allow the bolt to engage.

 

[wmass]

^ what he said. Try a new spring and follower.

 

[Rocky Mosasaurus]

You may also want to put a small amount of lube in the magazine walls and spread it on and fill it to partial capacity and leave it overnight, then unload the mag and fill it completely and leave it for another night.

 

[Dunphy1296]

Nothing wrong w the mags or the X95. Upgrade your mags w magpul antitilt follower will fix issue And allow the bolt to engage.

I assumed that the problem with the magazine was the follower. However, you cannot upgrade 20 round mags with the magpul antitilt followers; they are not compatible. I wanted to double check if the 30 round mags were in fact compatible with the X95, and if they were whether they were ready to go as is or if I would need to purchase magpul followers for each of them if I wanted to use them in the X95. Like I said, many people say that prebans work with the X95, but nobody specifies what models. And considering I have now been burnt by one model of preban mag I want to know what works and what doesn't before I start purchasing more.

You may also want to put a small amount of lube in the magazine walls and spread it on and fill it to partial capacity and leave it overnight, then unload the mag and fill it completely and leave it for another night.

Interesting idea. I'll give it a shot. Don't see what harm this could do anyway.

 

[Rocky Mosasaurus]

I assumed that the problem with the magazine was the follower. However, you cannot upgrade 20 round mags with the magpul antitilt followers; they are not compatible. I wanted to double check if the 30 round mags were in fact compatible with the X95, and if they were whether they were ready to go as is or if I would need to purchase magpul followers for each of them if I wanted to use them in the X95. Like I said, many people say that prebans work with the X95, but nobody specifies what models. And considering I have now been burnt by one model of preban mag I want to know what works and what doesn't before I start purchasing more.



Interesting idea. I'll give it a shot. Don't see what harm this could do anyway.

I should also clarify this is assuming you do in fact replace the springs with new springs and followers with Anti-tilt followers. The spring will be new and the tension will be greater than one which was broken in over years of use (your standard preban). In order to not go overboard all at once by filling the magazine to capacity and damaging the new spring, you can slightly “dampen” the spring stiffness by loading it partially.

Reading your post you would want to do this procedure with 30 round mags since 20s won’t take the anti-tilt followers. The good news is many guys on the forums have already replaced their thirty round mags with anti-tilt mags, so if you buy from them you may be able to avoid this hastle.

 

[Dunphy1296]

I should also clarify this is assuming you do in fact replace the springs with new springs and followers with Anti-tilt followers. The spring will be new and the tension will be greater than one which was broken in over years of use (your standard preban). In order to not go overboard all at once by filling the magazine to capacity and damaging the new spring, you can slightly “dampen” the spring stiffness by loading it partially.

Reading your post you would want to do this procedure with 30 round mags since 20s won’t take the anti-tilt followers. The good news is many guys on the forums have already replaced their thirty round mags with anti-tilt mags, so if you buy from them you may be able to avoid this hastle.

Alright, I will keep that in mind. Like I said, the magpul anti-tilt followers are not compatible with the 20 round straight mags. They don't fit to begin with and the straight mags actually rely on the tilting mechanism of the follower. It is frustrating, because a new follower is an obvious fix to the problem I am having with that mag. But nobody makes a good replacement follower for those 20 round preban mags. I'm also having trouble finding the 30 round prebans, but I'm sure I will track some down in time.

 

[Soundwave]

Wish I bought some that already had replacements....I find my 20s don't drop free but the 30s do.

 

[Rocky Mosasaurus]

Alright, I will keep that in mind. Like I said, the magpul anti-tilt followers are not compatible with the 20 round straight mags. They don't fit to begin with and the straight mags actually rely on the tilting mechanism of the follower. It is frustrating, because a new follower is an obvious fix to the problem I am having with that mag. But nobody makes a good replacement follower for those 20 round preban mags. I'm also having trouble finding the 30 round prebans, but I'm sure I will track some down in time.

In this case then before you make any modifications I would try some 30 rounds magazines unaltered in your Tavor to see if they will hold the bolt back. You can run into trouble with preban mags that are old and with stubborn base plates which are crimped on extremely tight. I had this experience with Mini-14 magazines: I bought Wolff springs to replace them
but the base plate lips were immovable! There was no way I could slip a pair of pliers or any tool inbetween to peel them back enough to get the ancient base plates removed. Check the Classifieds section because there are guys who have the 30 rounders listed with Anti-tilt followers and without and then you can figure out what works best.

 

[Compooky]

Just took an old USGI mag out of the wrapper because I was curious and the bolt locks back.

 

[kieron]

Wish I bought some that already had replacements....I find my 20s don't drop free but the 30s do.

I've experienced similar. Twenty-round pre-ban magazines are slow to drop, if at all, but thirty-round pre-ban drop without issue. Adding Magpul anti-tilt followers and Ranger baseplates are icing on the cake.

Bolt has locked back with both capacities, FWIW.

 

[Dunphy1296]

In this case then before you make any modifications I would try some 30 rounds magazines unaltered in your Tavor to see if they will hold the bolt back. You can run into trouble with preban mags that are old and with stubborn base plates which are crimped on extremely tight. I had this experience with Mini-14 magazines: I bought Wolff springs to replace them
but the base plate lips were immovable! There was no way I could slip a pair of pliers or any tool inbetween to peel them back enough to get the ancient base plates removed. Check the Classifieds section because there are guys who have the 30 rounders listed with Anti-tilt followers and without and then you can figure out what works best.

Alright, thanks for the advice.

Just took an old USGI mag out of the wrapper because I was curious and the bolt locks back.

Interesting. And this was a 20 round mag?

I've experienced similar. Twenty-round pre-ban magazines are slow to drop, if at all, but thirty-round pre-ban drop without issue. Adding Magpul anti-tilt followers and Ranger baseplates are icing on the cake.

Bolt has locked back with both capacities, FWIW.

It seems to me that the 30 round prebans are just all around better suited for the modern rifles; they seem to have less issues, be more consistent, and have the added bonus of the magpul followers. I'll need to keep an eye out for them.

 

[Compooky]

Alright, thanks for the advice.

Interesting. And this was a 20 round mag?

It seems to me that the 30 round prebans are just all around better suited for the modern rifles; they seem to have less issues, be more consistent, and have the added bonus of the magpul followers. I'll need to keep an eye out for them.

30 rd so you don't need new followers for those.

 

[Eugenio.FV]

curious, did you also post this on Reddit?

 

[granitestater]

I picked up a Tavor X95 last week. I have not got the chance to shoot it yet, but I hope to in the coming days. I'm posting this thread because my Tavor X95 came with a 20 round colt preban mag thrown in. The problem is that the bolt is not locking back on that mag. The bolt locks back fine with the 10 round PMAG that the gun normally comes with, but the lock just won't recognize the 20 round preban. I went to a local store today that got a shipment of preban mags in. They were the same 20 round colt prebans that my gun came with. I tried a few of them, and the bolt refused to lock back on any of them. So I'm forced to conclude that the X95 just doesn't like the colt 20 round mags. I can't find anyone else discussing this online, but this seems to be the case.

So I'm posting this thread to ask people what preban mags they use with their Tavor X95 (or SAR I guess) that operate properly. One of the major selling points of the X95, especially in MA, is that it takes standard stanag mags which leaves open the possibility of using prebans. I see many people discussing preban mag compatibility with the X95, but nobody reports exactly which preban mags the gun likes. What preban mags should I be looking for that the Tavor X95 will operate well with.

I have found the Tavor X95 to be very magazine sensitive. I would not lock back on empty with ANY USGI metal mags, pre ban, post ban whatever, straight 20, curved 20, or 30 rounders and with some magazines, not even feed reliably, it did work fine with the Magpul M3 that came in the box. For reasons I won't get into here because they are not related to the discussion, I won't buy or use Magpul. I tried some Daniel Defense 32 round magazines, and wow, runs great. Feeds reliably, locks open etc. DD Magazine® Bulk AR-15 12-pack
So, with those DD mags in hand I started to use the rifle more often. It now has over 1000 rounds through it so I decided to try the magazines that would not work. Now they work just fine. I understand that being in Mass you cannot get new DD magazines, but if you have a little patience and get it broken in I think it will run fine with the pre ban mags you have.

 

[Dunphy1296]

30 rd so you don't need new followers for those.

Awesome, thanks for the test.

curious, did you also post this on Reddit?

Yeah, I posted about the issue on Reddit a few days back. Then I was more concerned with seeing if I could fix the mag. Now after I have tried the bolt with more Colt USGI mags, I realize that it is a problem with the gun just not liking those preban mags, so I want to know what prebans actually have worked for Tavor owners.

I have found the Tavor X95 to be very magazine sensitive. I would not lock back on empty with ANY USGI metal mags, pre ban, post ban whatever, straight 20, curved 20, or 30 rounders and with some magazines, not even feed reliably, it did work fine with the Magpul M3 that came in the box. For reasons I won't get into here because they are not related to the discussion, I won't buy or use Magpul. I tried some Daniel Defense 32 round magazines, and wow, runs great. Feeds reliably, locks open etc. DD Magazine® Bulk AR-15 12-pack
So, with those DD mags in hand I started to use the rifle more often. It now has over 1000 rounds through it so I decided to try the magazines that would not work. Now they work just fine. I understand that being in Mass you cannot get new DD magazines, but if you have a little patience and get it broken in I think it will run fine with the pre ban mags you have.

The thing that has been in the back of my mind is that I have never actually gotten the chance to fire the rifle yet, so I was wondering if anyone would say that this problem might fix itself down the line once the gun gets some rounds through it. I really appreciate this input; it is good to know that someone else has experienced this same problem.

 

[92G]

I have had no magazine issues with tavor SAR or X95. however the "bolt lock open spring" can be rather stiff. it is possible your magazine spring is not strong enough to engage the bolt lock. many of the pre-ban mags floating around have very weak springs. as others point out, some of my pre-ban 20's fit too snug in the magwell and don't drop free, but they do function.

1) are you able to lock the bolt open manually (i.e no magazine) by pulling down on the bolt lock open tab on the rear of the rifle
2) with magazine inserted, pull bolt to the rear and look to see whether theres any engagement of the bolt lock open tab at rear of rifle; my guess is that it's just not engaging it enough, which is an issue with either mag spring or follower or both
3) have you tried USGI 30 rounders?

 

[Dunphy1296]

I have had no magazine issues with tavor SAR or X95. however the "bolt lock open spring" can be rather stiff. it is possible your magazine spring is not strong enough to engage the bolt lock. many of the pre-ban mags floating around have very weak springs. as others point out, some of my pre-ban 20's fit too snug in the magwell and don't drop free, but they do function.

1) are you able to lock the bolt open manually (i.e no magazine) by pulling down on the bolt lock open tab on the rear of the rifle
2) with magazine inserted, pull bolt to the rear and look to see whether theres any engagement of the bolt lock open tab at rear of rifle; my guess is that it's just not engaging it enough, which is an issue with either mag spring or follower or both
3) have you tried USGI 30 rounders?

1) Yes that isn't an issue
2) I did this. It seems that the bolt lock sits on the follower but the follower is depressed too far to engage the lock. I'm guessing the spring is just too weak on my 20 round USGI mag. If I could get a replacement it would probably work. Unfortunately, I don't know/have heard of anyone who makes replacement parts for the 20 round mags. It is also possible as has been suggested by someone else in the thread that if I get some rounds through the gun then the lock will loosen up and the spring will be strong enough to activate it. Like I said, I have no experience with rifles so I'm just guessing.
3) No, but I want to buy some. People seem to have better luck with them and of course if I am having trouble I can just upgrade it with a magpul follower and spring and it should be good to go. I'm a little hesitant to switch out parts on a preban mag but it seems to be an almost unanimous consensus on this board that the mag remains legal even if you do that.

 

[CatSnoutSoup]

For 20 rounds mags new springs and followers (polymer not the original USGI alloy) use to be short money from Brownells, it wouldn’t hurt to swap and see what happens.

I have an X95 and I have 20 round USGI mags just not sure if I have any to try that I haven’t refitted.

 

[Dunphy1296]

For 20 rounds mags new springs and followers (polymer not the original USGI alloy) use to be short money from Brownells, it wouldn’t hurt to swap and see what happens.

I have an X95 and I have 20 round USGI mags just not sure if I have any to try that I haven’t refitted.

Just took a look through Brownells' website but I don't see any 20 round mag parts; parts for 30 round mags are everywhere but it seems like the 20 round mag parts are practically non-existent. I take it though that most people refit their preban mags.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Just took a look through Brownells' website but I don't see any 20 round mag parts; parts for 30 round mags are everywhere but it seems like the 20 round mag parts are practically non-existent. I take it though that most people refit their preban mags.

Untrue. Wolff Gunsprings makes the best and 20 rd springs can be ordered direct from them.

https://www.gunsprings.com/index.php?page=items&cID=2&mID=1&dID=79#493

 

[Dunphy1296]

Untrue. Wolff Gunsprings makes the best and 20 rd springs can be ordered direct from them.

https://www.gunsprings.com/index.php?page=items&cID=2&mID=1&dID=79#493

Thank you very much for the referral, I would not have found this.

 

[CatSnoutSoup]

Cast aluminum follower.

AR15 20rd. Aluminum Magazine Follower

Also scroll down the page to see combo spring and either aluminum or polymer follower, although these springs are not likely to be as good as the Wolff springs Len pointed out.

 

[Dunphy1296]

Cast aluminum follower.

AR15 20rd. Aluminum Magazine Follower

Also scroll down the page to see combo spring and either aluminum or polymer follower, although these springs are not likely to be as good as the Wolff springs Len pointed out.

Thank you for that as well. The problem I'm having is that the more I examine the mechanism and look at the problem, the more I'm convinced that it is not actually the spring itself being weak or the follower, rather it is the tilting mechanism. When the bolt lock presses down on the follower it tilts enough so that it doesn't lock. My guess is that the Tavor X95's bolt locking mechanism is reliant on the anti-tilt feature that is ubiquitous in modern magazines. The old 30 round prebans can be refitted to use the anti-tilt followers, and that makes the compatible with the X95. However, the old straight 20 round USGI prebans are reliant on the tilting mechanism and can't be refitted to be anti-tilt. It is possible that once the gun sees more use and lock gets a little more worn out then it won't push on the magazine hard enough to tilt it so that it fails to lock open.

That is my working theory anyway. I will be looking at some 30 round prebans tomorrow. Some of them will have been refitted with magpul anti-tilts and some of them will not be. If my theory is correct, the anti-tilt mags should work while the unrefitted mags will not. If my theory is in fact correct, then refitting the spring and follower on the 20 round will not fix the problem because ultimately it is the tilting mechanism that is causing the issue. I'll post tomorrow with my findings; if the 20 round prebans don't work with the X95 then it is something that people should be able to find out about before they buy an X95.

 

[MaverickNH]

IWI Academy (Tom Alibrando) teaches to load down 1 round for the Tavor, as do many. But your problem is not seating a full mag but lock back on the last round shot. Sorry if I missed it, but does that always occur while shooting that last round or just when testing empty mags? You might post on Tavor FB groups as TomA and other IWI instructors hang there. Review of Tavor & mags here
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iC03yl-iHlA


Having let my MA Non-Res LTC lapse, I don’t bring my X95 into MA so don’t use preban mags.

 

[Dunphy1296]

So I ran my experiment when I went to purchase a few old USGI mags from someone in my area. I tested the 30 round USGI mags: all of them worked. That includes 30 round mags of different brands, and both 30 round mags that had magpul anti-tilt followers and those that did not. Then I tested one of his 20 round USGI mags that was in excellent condition: the bolt once again failed to lock back. My "anti-tilt" theory seems to not hold weight, because even the 30 round mags that do tilt still work with my X95. But after trying at least 7 different 20 round preban USGI mags every single one of them failed to engage the bolt lock. I will be curious to see if over time the bolt starts to work with the 20 round mag. But as of right now I am forced to conclude that while 30 round preban mags will work great with the Tavor X95, 20 round USGI preban mags do not engage the bolt lock on the Tavor X95. I can't give an explanation of why this is the case, and I genuinely believe that there is a good chance that after the gun sees more use the mags will start engaging the bolt lock properly. But, I am confident with the sample size I have tried that the 20 round prebans will not work with a fresh out of the box X95.

IWI Academy (Tom Alibrando) teaches to load down 1 round for the Tavor, as do many. But your problem is not seating a full mag but lock back on the last round shot. Sorry if I missed it, but does that always occur while shooting that last round or just when testing empty mags? You might post on Tavor FB groups as TomA and other IWI instructors hang there. Review of Tavor & mags here
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iC03yl-iHlA


Having let my MA Non-Res LTC lapse, I don’t bring my X95 into MA so don’t use preban mags.

Its good to know about the advice to load down 1 round. As stated earlier in the thread I have not yet had the chance to shoot the rifle, although I will test if the bolt locks back on the 20 round empty mag at the range (I will probably get there next weekend). My assumption is that if it won't engage when I pull the slide back, it probably won't lock back on empty either. I saw that video you linked while researching the problem myself. The problem is that he only tests if the magazines feed properly, and doesn't discuss/show the bolt lock.

I have considered reaching out to various Tavor communities about this problem. The issue is that this is really a problem very specific to Tavor owners in MA, because MA is the only state that plays around with preban mags. While one of the main draws of the X95 platform in MA is that it accepts standard stanag mags (and thus, prebans), I think you would be hard-pressed to find someone outside of this state who is stocking up on old USGI mags for their shiny new expensive X95 rifle. That is why, I suspect, nobody has discussed this problem before as there are very few threads discussing the Tavor and "preban mags" together to begin with. Still, it is important information for those of us in MA, at least for as long as the X95 and preban mags remain legal...

 

[Parker Duofold]

30 round PMags work well.

 

[Len-2A Training]

I wonder if a newer design 20 rd follower might work?

 

[CatSnoutSoup]

I had just finished streaming the last episode of "Upload" on Amazon when I saw this thread got bumped again, so I said this has begun to bug me I better get my ass out of bed an go investigate.

I went down stairs got a barley used X95 out of the safe and rounded up some 20 round USGI mags.

I tested...
2 Colts with original aluminum alloy followers and original springs.
1 Adventure Line with original aluminum alloy follower and original spring.
1 Colt with after market polymer (aka plastic) follower and replacement spring.

They were all inserted on a closed bolt (the old alloys were actually a little harder to seat).

They all locked the bolt back solidly when it was retracted.

So I do not know what is up with the OP's rifle but thankfully mine does not share the issue. It is also not a question of breaking in as my rifle surely doesn't have more than 150-200 rounds through it.



P.S.> I wish I could say the same about the bolt in an LR-308 I have that will not lock back, but that needs its own thread.

 

[cderwa]

FYI. I tested five preban 20 round mags on my new x95, and all worked fine to lock the bolt back. Though they were hard to drop.