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IDF to replace Tavor with Israeli made AR

sbi

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This is a Google translation from an article from Israeli newspaper, so pardon the grammar. The article is from an hour ago.

The weapon revolution for IDF soldiers: Israeli AR instead of the M4 and Tavor

In a quick move during the war, the Procurement Administration at the Ministry of Defense bought about 20,000 M-16 based M4 rifles and 3,000 Tavor rifles, but prepared for the big move in the field units: a uniform Israeli weapon, which will be similar to the M4. The Givati and Golani fighters may say goodbye to Tavor this year.

As part of the lessons learned from the war in Gaza, the IDF is planning an Israeli weapons revolution that may change the battlefield for the infantry, armor, engineering and artillery soldiers. The army intends to go back and base itself on unified Israeli weapons in the field of assault rifles for the field units, mainly for the infantry soldiers. To this end, the procurement administration at the Ministry of Defense is launching a huge tender for tens of thousands of rifles between three local weapon manufacturers: "Silver Shadow" which manufactures the Gilboa rifle, MZ weapons of the "Amatan" company, and the Arad rifle of IWI.

All three are from the AR family of weapons.

Two of these companies will win a tender that will end in the long-term arming of the IDF with Israeli weapons, which are based on the American M4 and common in the IDF, as an advanced version of the M16 manufactured by the Colt company. The new weapons will be mounted with various adapters for aiming projection and range-increasing optical sights for snipers. In this way, the IDF will phase out the Israeli Tavor rifles that were intended about two decades ago to be the replacements for the American rifles, but were not distributed beyond three infantry brigades: Givati, Golani and Nahal.

As an interim step before the introduction of Israeli weapons, the Tavors will be transferred to non-infantry field units (armor, artillery and possibly also for engineering. In the meantime, due to the wear and tear of the existing weapons during the war, the procurement administration at the Ministry of Defense ordered about 20 thousand American M4 rifles and another 3,000 Tavor rifles.

The Ministry of Defense emphasizes that the two Israeli manufacturers who win the tender will have to meet strict conditions even though their weapons have already been successfully sold to security units in Israel, which belong to the police and Shin Bet, and to foreign armies.

"The Tavor was based on a mechanism of a rear assembly, which has become less common in Western armies, less suitable for operating some of the restraints, and it has relative disadvantages in fighting in closed areas, as we saw in the fighting in Gaza," a senior IDF officer who leads the

intensification project. "We are after in-depth research on the subject and comparative experiments that we conducted with fighters from the Givati, Kafir brigades and paratroopers, to make sure it's not just a gut feeling of commanders. We realized in the tests we did at the ranges that we had to switch to a unified weapon version because significant gaps have arisen on the subject, mainly in the reserve battalions that are fed from different units, and from soldiers that some of them used Tavor and others M4".

The ambition to be based on Israeli assault rifles will be the third in recent decades, after the first two - the Galilee rifles

In the 1970s and 1980s, and the Tavors from the beginning of the 2000s, they did not succeed fully and for a long time. "The move will allow high maintenance flexibility, will prevent conversions for fighters who will move from regular to reserve, will provide a uniform spare parts market and will save logistical costs over the years," added the officer, "the ambition is that the new M4s we received from the U.S. will be distributed this year to the Givati and Golani fighters, in order to let them get to know and start using the same weapon technology that will later be Israeli-made for them as well."

According to him, the rate of equipping will be affected by the operational schedule and the combat constraints of the brigades in the coming year: "The Israeli weapons will be

very similar to the American M4, also in terms of shooting ranges and the weight of the rifle. In my estimation, we will complete the move by mid-2025."
 
Seems like a turn of the century fad. French getting rid of their FAMAS. Chinese getting rid of their bullpup QBZs and replacing them with the 191s as seen below and now the Israelis getting rid of the Tavor. Who still uses the AUG and what will they go with? All the 'good western countries' should just adopt the HK 416 and call it a day.

c2b5e869989d4561b0d3a1cf0a9896f8.jpg
 
This is a Google translation from an article from Israeli newspaper, so pardon the grammar. The article is from an hour ago.

The weapon revolution for IDF soldiers: Israeli AR instead of the M4 and Tavor

In a quick move during the war, the Procurement Administration at the Ministry of Defense bought about 20,000 M-16 based M4 rifles and 3,000 Tavor rifles, but prepared for the big move in the field units: a uniform Israeli weapon, which will be similar to the M4. The Givati and Golani fighters may say goodbye to Tavor this year.

As part of the lessons learned from the war in Gaza, the IDF is planning an Israeli weapons revolution that may change the battlefield for the infantry, armor, engineering and artillery soldiers. The army intends to go back and base itself on unified Israeli weapons in the field of assault rifles for the field units, mainly for the infantry soldiers. To this end, the procurement administration at the Ministry of Defense is launching a huge tender for tens of thousands of rifles between three local weapon manufacturers: "Silver Shadow" which manufactures the Gilboa rifle, MZ weapons of the "Amatan" company, and the Arad rifle of IWI.

All three are from the AR family of weapons.

Two of these companies will win a tender that will end in the long-term arming of the IDF with Israeli weapons, which are based on the American M4 and common in the IDF, as an advanced version of the M16 manufactured by the Colt company. The new weapons will be mounted with various adapters for aiming projection and range-increasing optical sights for snipers. In this way, the IDF will phase out the Israeli Tavor rifles that were intended about two decades ago to be the replacements for the American rifles, but were not distributed beyond three infantry brigades: Givati, Golani and Nahal.

As an interim step before the introduction of Israeli weapons, the Tavors will be transferred to non-infantry field units (armor, artillery and possibly also for engineering. In the meantime, due to the wear and tear of the existing weapons during the war, the procurement administration at the Ministry of Defense ordered about 20 thousand American M4 rifles and another 3,000 Tavor rifles.

The Ministry of Defense emphasizes that the two Israeli manufacturers who win the tender will have to meet strict conditions even though their weapons have already been successfully sold to security units in Israel, which belong to the police and Shin Bet, and to foreign armies.

"The Tavor was based on a mechanism of a rear assembly, which has become less common in Western armies, less suitable for operating some of the restraints, and it has relative disadvantages in fighting in closed areas, as we saw in the fighting in Gaza," a senior IDF officer who leads the

intensification project. "We are after in-depth research on the subject and comparative experiments that we conducted with fighters from the Givati, Kafir brigades and paratroopers, to make sure it's not just a gut feeling of commanders. We realized in the tests we did at the ranges that we had to switch to a unified weapon version because significant gaps have arisen on the subject, mainly in the reserve battalions that are fed from different units, and from soldiers that some of them used Tavor and others M4".

The ambition to be based on Israeli assault rifles will be the third in recent decades, after the first two - the Galilee rifles

In the 1970s and 1980s, and the Tavors from the beginning of the 2000s, they did not succeed fully and for a long time. "The move will allow high maintenance flexibility, will prevent conversions for fighters who will move from regular to reserve, will provide a uniform spare parts market and will save logistical costs over the years," added the officer, "the ambition is that the new M4s we received from the U.S. will be distributed this year to the Givati and Golani fighters, in order to let them get to know and start using the same weapon technology that will later be Israeli-made for them as well."

According to him, the rate of equipping will be affected by the operational schedule and the combat constraints of the brigades in the coming year: "The Israeli weapons will be

very similar to the American M4, also in terms of shooting ranges and the weight of the rifle. In my estimation, we will complete the move by mid-2025."

Uh oh, @40 Creedmoor fan , the IDF is going backwards to the inferior AR platform, just like their SOF!

IMG_9633.gif
 
Uh oh, @40 Creedmoor fan , the IDF is going backwards to the inferior AR platform, just like their SOF!

View attachment 857833
How many times has the US tried to replace AR? Meanwhile, you point to an article about a procurement process, like ten US procurement processes that failed to replace AR, and proclaim Tavor is getting replaced!? Really! I figured you'd have more solid info.

P.S. I guess you missed the part about Israel dumping M4s and M16s. Even they figured out that AR is dead.
 
How many times has the US tried to replace AR? Meanwhile, you point to an article about a procurement process, like ten US procurement processes that failed to replace AR, and proclaim Tavor is getting replaced!? Really! I figured you'd have more solid info.

P.S. I guess you missed the part about Israel dumping M4s and M16s. Even they figured out that AR is dead.

Wait, the US has had new small arms development attempts? I thought you said the US doesn’t care about its soldiers to give them the best?

And yes, the IDF is getting rid of their old M4s and M16s because they’re worn out. Did you see what they’re replacing the M4s and Tavors with? An Israeli made AR rifle. So much for the ARs being dead.

Can you help me understand this statement?

“The Tavor was based on a mechanism of a rear assembly, which has become less common in Western armies, less suitable for operating some of the restraints, and it has relative disadvantages in fighting in closed areas, as we saw in the fighting in Gaza," a senior IDF officer who leads the intensification project”
 
Everybody eventually figures out that bullpups are inferior.
Season 6 Starz GIF by Outlander
 
Wait, the US has had new small arms development attempts? I thought you said the US doesn’t care about its soldiers to give them the best?

And yes, the IDF is getting rid of their old M4s and M16s because they’re worn out. Did you see what they’re replacing the M4s and Tavors with? An Israeli made AR rifle. So much for the ARs being dead.

Can you help me understand this statement?

“The Tavor was based on a mechanism of a rear assembly, which has become less common in Western armies, less suitable for operating some of the restraints, and it has relative disadvantages in fighting in closed areas, as we saw in the fighting in Gaza," a senior IDF officer who leads the intensification project”
1) They went through attempts and ended up with nothing but the old guns. Why? Because they're cheap. DOD would much rather spend money on multi-million dollar GPS guided rockets that can't do anything in Ukraine 'cause Russia can fool the bombs to fall miles off course. Also, last I checked, 21 vets commit suicide daily due to a lack of VA funds. Yeah, US DOD is really interested in getting grunts proper weapons.

2) M4-like does not mean AR. Robinson XCR is "M4-like," but it's not an AR-type rifle. You are extrapolating from an article written because some procurement guy @ IDF said

3) You wanna play "who got better quotes" from an article based entirely on a quote of a pencil pusher? OK. Here's mine: "which will be similar to the M4." . It didn't say "Based on M4", just "similar". The new SIG is "similar" to M4. XCR is "similar" to M4. Neither is based on M4.

4) Do you know how we know that this is a garbage tender exercise? Try finding the three companies that are participating in the tender. Two don't even have a website, let alone a product. Only one of them has produced a rifle and it was a gimmick rifle "similar to the M4". IWI mage excellent AR rifle called "Zion". IWI has a proven record of mass-producing a battle rifle. IWI is not part of the tender. Do you still believe this is an article worth paying attention to?
 
Cool, although I meant do the Israelis use the Galil ACE. I know it's used by some other countries' police and military. Wiki says like 15 countries use it.

55912230_1514259942038885_6889591510921117696_n.jpg

AFAIK, Galil is not used anymore by any unit in the IDF.
 
Can you help me understand this statement?

“The Tavor was based on a mechanism of a rear assembly, which has become less common in Western armies, less suitable for operating some of the restraints, and it has relative disadvantages in fighting in closed areas, as we saw in the fighting in Gaza," a senior IDF officer who leads the intensification project”
Good question. I’m not sure if the statement means “closed areas” or “close areas”, as in tight spots.

Once we start talking SBRs, the Tavor’s bullpup design start losing upsides. Suppressing SBRs is not easy and suppressing Tavors in difficult. They blast crap back much closer to the operator’s face. That said, I’d figure that after a few rounds in a tunnel, nobody can see sh*t anyway, regardless of weapon used, unless using thermal imaging optics.
 
Everybody eventually figures out that bullpups are inferior.

They aren't really inferior. . . . until you try a mag-change under stress. LOL. It's just unnatural.

In 7.62x39 I assume? Do the Israelis use these anywhere?

Of course 7.62x39. I've only got a PILE of ammo that I bought back when x39 was going for $80-90/K. LOL
 
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