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Tavor: who has one or opinion
- Thread starter nordic alien
- Start date
That is extremely rudimentary. Weight is a good vague guess at stabilization in different twists, but the biggest factors to consider are the bullet length and velocity, not weight. It just happens that with traditiional lead core bullets, the two coincide. But take all copper bullets like the Barnes TSX, and you have some 70 grainers that may not stabilize in a short 1:8 twist that can stabilize 80gr SMKs. Same goes for some 50gr frangibles. Only 50 grain, but they’re SUPER long and sometimes don’t stabilize in 1:9 twists.
This is a good and easy tool that is simplified enough:
Bullet Gyroscopic Stability Calculator
Calculate the Gyroscopic stability of a bullet with the Miller approximation.
bisonballistics.com
Also, the loss of precision with light/short bullets in fast twists isn’t about being over-stabilized. Rather, it’s the fast spin accentuates imperfections in the balance of the bullet. Which is why bulk 55gr may group particularly poorly in a 1:7, but match 55gr might still group well. Because the match bullets have less imperfections to be accentuated.
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cathouse01
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In any case, I do think the Tavor will shoot the IWI 77 gr. Razor a lot better than the cheap Tula 55 gr. steel case. At least mine does.That is extremely rudimentary. Weight is a good vague guess at stabilization in different twists, but the biggest factors to consider are the bullet length and velocity, not weight. It just happens that with traditiional lead core bullets, the two coincide. But take all copper bullets like the Barnes TSX, and you have some 70 grainers that may not stabilize in a short 1:8 twist that can stabilize 80gr SMKs. Same goes for some 50gr frangibles. Only 50 grain, but they’re SUPER long and sometimes don’t stabilize in 1:9 twists.
This is a good and easy tool that is simplified enough:
Bullet Gyroscopic Stability Calculator
Calculate the Gyroscopic stability of a bullet with the Miller approximation.
Also, the loss of precision with light/short bullets in fast twists isn’t about being over-stabilized. Rather, it’s the fast spin accentuates imperfections in the balance of the bullet. Which is why bulk 55gr may group particularly poorly in a 1:7, but match 55gr might still group well. Because the match bullets have less imperfections to be accentuated.
i just checked - i ordered a mix of 77 and 68gr .223 from CMP - just hope it will ship, eventually. either should be working well for both 1:7 and 1:8 barrels.
probably should have ordered more, but, the price was looking crazy at the time. not so crazy now...
cathouse01
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I’ve always liked IWI ammo, but its availability has always been spotty. Turned out this was fortunate, since it caused me to stock up on it when it was available during “good times”. The most I paid for the 77 Razor was 50 cpr back in August of 2018.
I’ve commented before. It’s a nice gun.
thoughts:
Pros:
MA legal
Handy
Well made
Very reliable - eats anything and doesn’t mind being filthy
Accepts standard mags
Decently accurate
cons:
It’s a bull pup. You either like them or you don’t.
-mushy/heavy trigger out of the box
-difficult to shoot weak side due to location of ejection port
-short sight radius using irons
Not cheap
less accurate than an AR which (aside from MA) you can get significantly cheaper
Most sights made for an AR platform will be slightly too low for a Tavor
Got some weight to it but balances well
Honestly the biggest of the cons are way outweighed by the Pros in MA. In a free state they may be more of a consideration.
thoughts:
Pros:
MA legal
Handy
Well made
Very reliable - eats anything and doesn’t mind being filthy
Accepts standard mags
Decently accurate
cons:
It’s a bull pup. You either like them or you don’t.
-mushy/heavy trigger out of the box
-difficult to shoot weak side due to location of ejection port
-short sight radius using irons
Not cheap
less accurate than an AR which (aside from MA) you can get significantly cheaper
Most sights made for an AR platform will be slightly too low for a Tavor
Got some weight to it but balances well
Honestly the biggest of the cons are way outweighed by the Pros in MA. In a free state they may be more of a consideration.
Best for what purpose? 55gr FMJ is great for 0-300 yard training.
Past 300 yards or wanting precision, you’ll want 69gr-77gr BTHP of some flavor.
For defensive work, 55gr FMJ is decent within a 100 yards, but is somewhat dependent on yaw when entering terminal ballistics in order to do more than ice pick through. Not as dependent as M855, but still dependent. I’d recommend a 77gr TMK or a TSX of some flavor (50, 62, or 70) for defensive work. But it will likely have a big difference in point of impact compared to your 55gr FMJ zero. Personally, I zero for my defensive loads, and then just accept the offset of the 55gr loads when training close up.
Yosemite Sam
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wow
i suck at shooting
i would have been happy w that target
I would be telling myself “good shooting, I got them all on the paper”
enjoy it!
i suck at shooting
i would have been happy w that target
I would be telling myself “good shooting, I got them all on the paper”
enjoy it!
Took this thing apart the other day to clean it out. Its actually not that bad. breaks down pretty easy.
For the barrel cam, You will want to take an old 8mm bolt and cut it about 10mm down. then grind flats on it so youre left with a key thats about 4mm x 8mm
For the barrel cam, You will want to take an old 8mm bolt and cut it about 10mm down. then grind flats on it so youre left with a key thats about 4mm x 8mm
so, the idea was from other thread but i will update it here. i got the manticore arms optimus forend for my x95.
so, overall i give it 3/5 stars, probably.
first thing that got odd - in the instructions they say to undo the 2 bolts that keep the top rail in place in order to remove some teflon stabilizing sleeves. there are no sleeves there to remove, so, odd.
also, those bolts should not be bothered, really, and they sit really tight.
then, well, as typical for aftermarket plastic parts, the dimensions are slightly off, somewhat by 1mm or 3/4mm. it was very difficult to put back the tab of the pistol grip. on the photo below it can still be seen -= there is a small gap between the forend and the body of the gun.
color is also slightly off, as is texture. it does not look native with rest of the rifle.
handling wise you lose all the rails, but the forend is smooth and nice to grip at as is, so, i will need to take it to the range to form an opinion.
barrel is indeed free floating now, there is no contact between hammerhead on the barrel and the foregrip. so, to be continued.
PS. to make barrel free floating in a same way one can simply remove (or push backwards) the plastic piece that sits in the groove on the barrel. it is the only point of contact of the stock foregrip with the barrel. stock part is not too sturdy without it but it works. you can try it.
so, overall i give it 3/5 stars, probably.
first thing that got odd - in the instructions they say to undo the 2 bolts that keep the top rail in place in order to remove some teflon stabilizing sleeves. there are no sleeves there to remove, so, odd.
also, those bolts should not be bothered, really, and they sit really tight.
then, well, as typical for aftermarket plastic parts, the dimensions are slightly off, somewhat by 1mm or 3/4mm. it was very difficult to put back the tab of the pistol grip. on the photo below it can still be seen -= there is a small gap between the forend and the body of the gun.
color is also slightly off, as is texture. it does not look native with rest of the rifle.
handling wise you lose all the rails, but the forend is smooth and nice to grip at as is, so, i will need to take it to the range to form an opinion.
barrel is indeed free floating now, there is no contact between hammerhead on the barrel and the foregrip. so, to be continued.
PS. to make barrel free floating in a same way one can simply remove (or push backwards) the plastic piece that sits in the groove on the barrel. it is the only point of contact of the stock foregrip with the barrel. stock part is not too sturdy without it but it works. you can try it.
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i have tested it today, and will keep it on.
once again i took it to 200/300 and no matter how i tried - to hit steel plate with a 3x prism at 300yds is a no go. at 200yds i did it fine but had no time and no desire to keep sorting it out where does it fly at 300 and why it misses the 12" plate.
test at 100yds did not really show any significant increase in accuracy or group size reduction either, but i was able to hit it repeatable with 2moa accuracy, how it always was. perhaps if i had a magnifier after the prism it would be easier, but it is not the purpose of this gun nor the desire to keep improving its groups. at 100yds it hits steel plates extremely well, from the bench or standing up and this new foregrip is nice.
once again i took it to 200/300 and no matter how i tried - to hit steel plate with a 3x prism at 300yds is a no go. at 200yds i did it fine but had no time and no desire to keep sorting it out where does it fly at 300 and why it misses the 12" plate.
test at 100yds did not really show any significant increase in accuracy or group size reduction either, but i was able to hit it repeatable with 2moa accuracy, how it always was. perhaps if i had a magnifier after the prism it would be easier, but it is not the purpose of this gun nor the desire to keep improving its groups. at 100yds it hits steel plates extremely well, from the bench or standing up and this new foregrip is nice.
A couple of friends bought Tavors a few weeks ago and we finally got out to the range today so they could try them out. We were all using cheapo Wolf/Tula 223 and it worked great shooting at steel plates. Tavor Thursday!
cathouse01
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X95s. They have the flat stock bottom behind the mag well.
As answered above, all 3 are X95s. The two on the left are Mass compliant versions and the one on right is an American version. I didn't look too closely to see what the differences were, other than the magazine capacity obviously.
huh, it seems i never sent a picture of how my finished build looks like now. odd.
here it is. in front here is a green laser, but usually an olight baldr mini sits there. at the time of the picture i moved it on the AR to check how well it will fit there.
here it is. in front here is a green laser, but usually an olight baldr mini sits there. at the time of the picture i moved it on the AR to check how well it will fit there.
Anyone see any tavor 7 20” for sale?
i like it.
it is not same as a vertical grip, but, because it is round and larger in diameter - it is handy to grab it.
the install of it was a pita - i wrote somewhere about it. dimensions were not exactly right. and color is slightly off - picture shows that.
functionality wise it is ok.
will99
NES Member
I really like that trigger guard. Who makes it?
