Target Sports SS109 in stock

mac1911

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That's an overblown internet rumor. Okay, maybe not a rumor since problems have been observed at least once. However, it is not a widespread issue.

I don't understand the fanboy-ism for the M855A1 though. I guess its a case of wanting what you can't have. I do like the round for a few reasons, but I also will very happily use 77gr rounds and "barrier blind" rounds for defensive purposes in the civilian world.
Fanboyz like because well its “mil”
Many many people think “mil” is the best because “mil” when many things are just good enough . Also gov did not mess with M855 looking to improve anything they just where pressed to go “green”

they could have easily just used a faster powder and upped the pressure of the SS109 bullet to give it a bit more velocity and energy retention.
Im not buying and significant barrel or parts wear with the added pressure.
 
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Can you elaborate?
M855A1 is only about 8000 psi under test pressure so it is very much +P. Also depending on your ramp/ magazine. The very large and exposed steel penetrator can get caught on the feed ramp and chew it up. It was a big enough issue with the military they changed the feed angle in mags. At least according to inrange TV.
 

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... Also gov did not mess with M855 looking to improve anything they just where pressed to go “green”

they could have easily just used a faster powder and upped the pressure of the SS109 bullet to give it a bit more velocity and energy retention.
...
I was skeptical when I first heard about their new “green” lead free round in development. But, I am now glad they’ve replaced the M855. In addition to the higher velocity you alluded to, the A1 has a better ballistic coefficient and better terminal ballistics against barriers/armor, and more repeatable decent terminal ballistics against tissue. For a general issue military round, it’s a big step up over the M855, mostly due to the ballistic coefficient and armor penetration. But the qualifier there is “for a general purpose military round”. Aside from the armor penetration, my civilian rounds are better at the other factors.
 
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mac1911

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M855A1 is only about 8000 psi under test pressure so it is very much +P. Also depending on your ramp/ magazine. The very large and exposed steel penetrator can get caught on the feed ramp and chew it up. It was a big enough issue with the military they changed the feed angle in mags. At least according to inrange TV.
5.56 NATO is a 62,??? Psi chamber correct? Whats the worry
 
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m855 might be the worst ammo for my purposes. horribly innaccurate, damages steel targets, suboptimal as a defensive round, its the last 5.56 ammo i would buy.
Wait, I thought this post was about SS109. Or are they two different names for the same thing?
 

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Mk262 if I had an unlimited budget to kill paper silhouettes. 855 and 855A1 if you have a top notch barrel that can handle it and even still it’ll wear out faster. Not shooting through soviet Kevlar? Go with a better option than green tips. Keep a case or five for when NoKo invades and you wanna be a Commie killing Wolverine.
 

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Mk262 if I had an unlimited budget to kill paper silhouettes..
For strictly paper, the most precise rounds I’ve found have been 69gr SMKs/TMKs and 73gr ELDs.

But actual government contract Mk262s do have a ridiculously low standard deviation along with their good terminal ballistics. They’re great in all barrel lengths too. I highly recommend Magtech 77gr OTMs for those that don’t want to spend on black hills for training. Magtech is $.50 a round and tied my black hills 77 TMKs with 10 round groups out of my 14” non-match barrel. It’ll stay under 1.5 MOA all day, with most shots staying around 1 MOA.
 
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SS109 is the bullet. M855 is the US designation for cartridges using the SS109 bullet.
Oh, I see. I thought Target Sports only sold loaded ammo cartridges, not bullets (components). Do they also sell black powder sabots? I must have missed that section.
 

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Oh, I see. I thought Target Sports only sold loaded ammo cartridges, not bullets (components). Do they also sell black powder sabots? I must have missed that section.
Oh, these are complete cartridges, loaded by Lake City. It’s just they aren’t government contract cartridges so there is no green painted tip and it’s just called by the bullet name instead of M855.
 

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M855 = DOD contracted cartridges which use SS109 bullets

SS109 = 62gr bullets with steel penetrators

Lake City SS109 = non-DOD-contract cartridges, loaded by Lake City, which use SS109 bullets

It’s kind of like how 50gr TSX is a bullet, but Black Hills 50gr TSX is a cartridge.

To complicate a little more, I believe Belgium just calls their 5.56 NATO cartridge the SS109 instead of making a separate designation.
 

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Oh, these are complete cartridges, loaded by Lake City. It’s just they aren’t government contract cartridges so there is no green painted tip and it’s just called by the bullet name instead of M855.
I had not used the magtech but at that price with your assessment I’ll get a bunch to try. Black hills usually runs me 65$ for 50 rounds on TS when it’s available.
 

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Standard M855 is about 52000 psi. It is a significant jump. And while quality ARs could handle it. I could see some budget builds get beat up bad by it. Same for feed ramps.
For guns made with out of spec parts i can see it but honeslty if its out of spec its going to fail with M855 it might just take 100 more rounds.
 

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I was skeptical when I first heard about their new “green” lead free round in development. But, I am now glad they’ve replaced the M855. In addition to the higher velocity you alluded to, the A1 has a better ballistic coefficient and better terminal ballistics against barriers/armor, and more repeatable decent terminal ballistics against tissue. For a general issue military round, it’s a big step up over the M855, mostly due to the ballistic coefficient and armor penetration. But the qualifier there is “for a general purpose military round”. Aside from the armor penetration, my civilian rounds are better at the other factors.
I do not have enough personal experience to really to really tell anyone its better. I was given 50 rounds from one of the giggle switch shooters. Shot it through my match AR and was able to keep them under 4min
I think added or more consistent accuracy comes from a better or i think a easier bullet (M855a1) to manufacture more consistently.
M855 is a copper bullet with a steel core vs the 3 piece design of the M855 of lead/steel and copper.
If all three pieces are not "aligned" well its going to produce poor accuracy down range.

the increased BC probably more to do with the longer over bullet length ?
which is why the cartridge produces more pressure
its stuffed deeper into the case

Its all good and if your getting sub 2 moa with any of the mil spec rounds your doing well.
I use 77 grain for match shooting but when I tried MK262 ImI and black hills it just was not as consistent as my reloads.
 
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...

the increased BC probably more to do with the longer over bullet length ?
which is why the cartridge produces more pressure
its stuffed deeper into the case

Its all good and if your getting sub 2 moa with any of the mil spec rounds your doing well.
I use 77 grain for match shooting but when I tried MK262 ImI and black hills it just was not as consistent as my reloads.
I haven’t been able measure the precision of the M855A1 yet, but it seems to perform similarly or slightly better than M855, which I can consistently shoot 1.5-2.5 MOA with an optic. Astigmatism means I occasionally get a flier if using iron sights. Out of my Highpower Service Rifle, I can easily keep it right at 1 MOA with real DOD Mk262 Mod1. Sure, I can get slightly tighter groups with my hand load 69gr TMKs, but it doesn’t matter for Highpower. Both will easily clean targets if I’m doing my part.

The increased BC mostly comes from the boat-tail design of the M855A1. With the A1’s method of construction, it allows them to seal the base of the bullet. In this picture, you can see the M855 with the exposed core on the bottom.

E7E04439-59C1-49D9-8204-80196CD98EEB.jpeg
 

PappyM3

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I had not used the magtech but at that price with your assessment I’ll get a bunch to try. Black hills usually runs me 65$ for 50 rounds on TS when it’s available.
I was very pleasantly surprised by them. Although, I guess they’re $.55 a shot now instead of $.50.
Here’s a 10-shot group at 100 yards with my 14” Black River Tactical 1-7 twist barrel, Larue MBT-2, and a 4x Trijicon. Not the best, but it’ll do.
E5E459C3-116C-4752-8BB1-2AC660C377B3.jpeg

Shooting Magtech 77 OTM at 200 yards with my Service Rifle 20” Shilen 1-7.7 barrel, Geissele NM trigger, and 4.5x Nightforce, I have a 4 shot group below. The flier to the left was completely a flinch by me and I called it. I’m sure if it was a full 10-shot group, then it would open up a bit. But I’m still pleasantly surprised by this round for $.55 a shot. I need to look up some gel testing videos because it could be my bulk 5.56 emergency defense round for when the Black Hills TMK is used up. But it should perform the same as any other Sierra 77 SMK based round.
7960179C-CEED-4C5D-B276-223651D473B4.jpeg
 
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Magtech is $.50 a round and tied my black hills 77 TMKs with 10 round groups out of my 14” non-match barrel. It’ll stay under 1.5 MOA all day, with most shots staying around 1 MOA.
Interesting. I did not know black hills loaded the 77 TMK. I was under the impression the ojive was so long that you could not seat them to mag length without having the neck of the brass not be in full contact with the bearing surface of the bullet. I had been reading reviews on some of the reloading supply sites saying they are a no-go.
 

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Interesting. I did not know black hills loaded the 77 TMK. I was under the impression the ojive was so long that you could not seat them to mag length without having the neck of the brass not be in full contact with the bearing surface of the bullet. I had been reading reviews on some of the reloading supply sites saying they are a no-go.
Yup, targetsports sells them. At one point, Creedmoor had pretty affordable mag-length 77gr TMKs for sale that I had shipped to a local dealer a couple years ago. But they shifted their focus for some reasons that I forget. It wasn’t due to any difficulties seating the bullets though.
 
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