Steven and Zach Dotys

[9000S]

check it out folks. very nice story, balls of steel them boys, and GOOD FOR THEM! and everyone that they wake up out of their complacent stupor.

Just thought that I would share it with you good folks....

http://www.cdapress.com/articles/2007/05/20/news/news01.txt

 

[Ripach]

Wow, this kid seems fairly smart, and well informed. What worries me however, is while I agree it is his right to open carry and they should not harass him or his brother for it, I am also wise enough to see that this type of press is not always in the best interest of firearms rights. If and when the wrong politician gets hold of this story it is the kind of thing that inspires senseless and restrictive legislation. So IMHO just because we can do something, doesn't necessarily mean we should.


Let the flaming of Ripach begin.

 

[Martlet]

Santos certainly seems to be a moron.

 

[Adam_MA]

That's great! Both intelligent young men are fighting the good fight!

Good for them!

 

[Martlet]

That's great! Both intelligent young men are fighting the good fight!

Good for them!

I agree. It's amazing how much we as a society have come to put up with from the people we hire. They stop and question everyone they see with a firearm? On what grounds? Do they detain everyone they see with a car? Smoking a cigarette?

 

[Gabe]

Good for them. My only further comment is, I hate Massachusetts. There is no law against open carry here either, but that doesn't mean that carrying openly wouldn't affect my suitability to exercise my right. Damn why do I still live here.

In NH, where open carry is permitted, has anyone had any experience entering places of business while openly carrying?

 

[pipmaster1971]

While I applaud their right to open carry, they shouldn't be too surprised the cops harrass them. Most citizens will call 911 if they see someone with a gun (especially in urban areas) and the cops HAVE to respond. Most times they will be let off, although there was one case in Southern NH where a guy was arrested for it (later released and had an apology from the NH AG). I'm not 100% convinced that open carry is a sensible thing to do; it's just not something the vast majority of people are used to. Of course, if you live in an area where it is normal (parts of AZ for example), then you'll probably be just fine. You basically need to "fit in" with your surroundings.

There is also the fact that if most criminals, who were about to commit a crime with a gun, saw a person open carry there would be 2 outcomes:

1) He wouldn't commit the crime

2) He would kill the open carry person to eliminate the only obvious threat.

At least with concealed carry it keeps the bad guy guessing. Especially in an area with lots of concealed carry permits issued.

"We'd be a disarmed British system of feudal subjectivity."

OK...I know the gun laws their are crazy, but Dude!!!

I do have one question I hope someone can answer. In NH you can open carry without a license. Why then do you need a license for concealed carry, or carrying a loaded handgun in a car? The fact is in either case you have a loaded gun on your person. It's something I've never understood. Anyone got any ideas why?

 

[drgrant]

Wow, this kid seems fairly smart, and well informed. What worries me however, is while I agree it is his right to open carry and they should not harass him or his brother for it, I am also wise enough to see that this type of press is not always in the best interest of firearms rights. If and when the wrong politician gets hold of this story it is the kind of thing that inspires senseless and restrictive legislation. So IMHO just because we can do something, doesn't necessarily mean we should.

The thing is though anyone could easily argue that not being able to do
something like that in a place like IDAHO would be pretty much
sacriledge in and of itself. If "restrictive legislation" gets passed up
there, then we basically are -f***ed- as a nation.

I don't see what "bad press" there is to this.... I mean seriously... I realize
the media spins things, but its pretty hard to "spin" a couple of kids, who
from most accounts, are well behaved, who just happen to be carrying
guns around with them. If anything they are highlighting the hoplophobia
present in our society, and the outright hypocritical views of the people
whining about their activities. People have no problem with LEOs and
rent a cops carrying guns around, but they're up in arms whenever someone
without a "badge" on has a gun.... I just don't get it.

And FWIW, VCDL does this kind of thing all the time, albeit for a different
reason... mainly for the reason showing how DUMB VA's CCW regs are
with regards to the ban on -concealed- carry in liquor serving
restaurants is. So they go in a large pack and eat dinner someplace, all
openly armed.... because thats what the law says they have to
do. VCDL has been "obnoxious" about other issues in the past, and
guess what... they're one of the most successful state level RKBA groups
in the country as a result!

What use is a right if we can't exercise it once in awhile?

And I agree that obviously locale changes things.... but if you
can't openly carry a gun in a state like Idaho, then something is
really wrong.

Just my .02....


-Mike

 

[Adam_MA]

OK...I know the gun laws their are crazy, but Dude!!!

We'll dissagree on this then, because in my opinion he is right on the money!

 

[pipmaster1971]

We'll dissagree on this then, because in my opinion he is right on the money!

http://www.reference.com/search?q=feudal

????

Sorry, it's just a pet hate of mine. People who use buzz-words as insults without understanding what they really mean. It tends to set an argument up as a straw-man and has the effect of degenerating the entire argument. Common words used these days: conservative, liberal, socialist etc....As I said, it's a pet hate...

/rant off

 

[drgrant]

OK...I know the gun laws their are crazy, but Dude!!!

Sorry, but england is a shithole with regards to citizen's
rights to do just about anything.

Or to get more elemental, how they treat the right of self
defense? Under british law not even knife carry is legal, some guys
are getting by with carrying "crossover" items for self defense (eg, by
carrying some kind of knife/object that would fit under the limitations).

Might be a nice place to visit, but the way the government treats its
citizens there, and the pathological dysfunction of the masses WRT
self defense, it's not someplace I would want to hang around very
long. We're talking about a country where they think its a good idea
to jump up and down and make noise if you see a rape in progress,
instead of smashing the rapist over the head with a blunt object or
other means of force. You do that in GB and they'll
take both of you away and give the rapist a lighter sentence.. at least
here the system probably will exonerate you.

I do have one question I hope someone can answer. In NH you can open carry without a license. Why then do you need a license for concealed carry, or carrying a loaded handgun in a car? The fact is in either case you have a loaded gun on your person. It's something I've never understood. Anyone got any ideas why?

Years ago there was this connotation of sorts that individuals carrying
concealed weapons were "more nefarious by default" so to speak... so I'd
bet the permit was invented to allay that particular concern. It was
probably based off the same ball of hyperbole that caused automatic
knives to get banned in most of the US. Someone might be able
to answer the question a bit better... as I don't know the history
behind NH''s CCW. I know that they've had it a long time, and they're
definitely "old school ccw" state as opposed to one of the newer ones,
like FL, TX, etc.

The irony is I think a year or two ago there was noises about NH even
getting rid of its permit system, not entirely but making it not required
for anyone legally able to own a handgun. I think it got tanked or
didn't quite make it. Stand your ground almost made it, but I think
the new governor (lynch) vetoed it or something.

-Mike

 

[pipmaster1971]

Might be a nice place to visit, but the way the government treats its
citizens there, and the pathological dysfunction of the masses WRT
self defense, it's not someplace I would want to hang around very
long. We're talking about a country where they think its a good idea
to jump up and down and make noise if you see a rape in progress,
instead of smashing the rapist over the head with a blunt object or
other means of force. You do that in GB and they'll
take both of you away and give the rapist a lighter sentence.. at least
here the system probably will exonerate you.

You're not going to get any arguments from me on that point. It's a disgrace (although there is a certain amount of hyperbole reported, you can still use lethal force -- just not own the means to apply that lethal force ).

 

[Riverside]

Open Carry in Massachusetts

Good for them. My only further comment is, I hate Massachusetts. There is no law against open carry here either, but that doesn't mean that carrying openly wouldn't affect my suitability to exercise my right. Damn why do I still live here.

In NH, where open carry is permitted, has anyone had any experience entering places of business while openly carrying?

Boston Police Licensing Officials may be encouraging citizens to open carry.
Ever since March of 2006, Class A licenses have been issued with the restriction NO CONCEALED CARRY. Doesn't that indicate that Class A license holders are expected to open carry?

 

[doobie]

Idaho Teens Tote Loaded Guns Around Town

POST FALLS, Idaho — Two home-schooled teenagers in this northern Idaho town say they are carrying loaded guns to the library, grocery store and other public areas for self-defense, as a crime deterrent, and to educate others about their rights.

Zach Doty, 18, carries a loaded Glock handgun on his hip. His 15-year-old brother, Steven, carries a .22-caliber rifle in a sling on his back.

Police have been called on several occasions to question the teens but have not found the teens to be in violation of the law.

In Idaho, residents 18 and older can openly carry a firearm in public. And those ages 13 to 17 who have parental permission can carry a rifle in public.

"I certainly don't anticipate that I'll need to use it, but I'd rather have it and not need it than to not have it and need it," Zach told the Coeur d'Alene Press. "There's no reason for me to hide a weapon."

Zach was stopped April 17 on his way to Bible study. On Friday, police again responded when someone reported the brothers with guns in a park. But police left after confirming it was the Doty's.

Zach has also been approached by others.

"There have been good opportunities to speak to people," he said. "I make sure they know that open carrying is legal, why I carry and I encourage them to consider doing so themselves."

The brothers carry their weapons to parks, the library, grocery stores and other places. They can't have their guns with them on school property, courthouses or jails.

Not everyone is comfortable with armed teenagers in the neighborhood.

"I turned back so that my wife could verify what I saw," said James Rebal, who called police after seeing Zach with his gun. "He was very nicely dressed and I saw nothing to be concerned about other than the weapon. It's not something you see in Idaho. Virginia Tech was fresh in my mind, and I thought it was better to err on the side of concern."

A lone gunman killed 32 people and himself last month at Virginia Tech University.

John Dunlap, commander of the American Legion Post 143, said he asked Zach to leave the Legion at a recent lunch because Zach was carrying his gun.

"He left and came back the next day (without the gun) for soup," said Dunlap, who described the brothers as "well-mannered."

Ed Santos owns Center Target Sports in Post Falls and is a gun safety instructor. He said the Dotys came to his shop but he doesn't sell handgun ammunition to people under 21.

He said that just because the Dotys are carrying guns in public doesn't mean they're not responsible with them, but questioned the need to carry them in town even though it was legal.

"My advice for them is the same as it is with adults — yes it's your right and yes it's legal, but why draw unnecessary attention to yourself just because you can?" Santos said. "I believe the intent (of the law) was to allow it more for hunting and recreation."

Zach said he's not paranoid or a radical.

"If I was an extremist, our founding fathers would all be extremists," he said. "Without them, we wouldn't have our independence. We'd be a disarmed British system of feudal subjectivity."

If I have kids... I want them to be like these two kids.

I would not go back to Center Target Sports. He didn't mention self defence.

 

[FrugalFannie]

+1

I homeschool my son and take him to the range frequently. I wonder how this would fly in the great Commonwealth of MA?

 

[codenamepaul]

I would be having a talk with that Legion Post commander as well.

 

[doobie]

+1

I homeschool my son and take him to the range frequently. I wonder how this would fly in the great Commonwealth of MA?

They'd be dead or in jail. Oh so would you.

 

[tele_mark]

I would be having a talk with that Legion Post commander as well.

There was a time......

Me and my friends, when we were all around that age in the late 70's, used to walk around the neighborhood in Marlboro, MA with our .22's and go plinking at a place that's now a residential neighborhood, and no one ever blinked an eye.

 

[m44]

I am homeschooled, and that is exactly what I would do if it was legal here in mass. There is nothing better than shooting after a long day of school.

 

[drgrant]

Wow this was a hell of a duplitron.... this one was a year.

Merged em.

-Mike

 

[Bruce for NH State Rep]

This never made much sense to me. Then again, neither do 99.44% of gun regulations out there.

Ed Santos owns Center Target Sports in Post Falls and is a gun safety instructor. He said the Dotys came to his shop but he doesn't sell handgun ammunition to people under 21.

Because, everyone knows you can't buy carbines and rifles chambered in .22LR, 9mm, .38Sp, .357Mag., .40S&W, .45ACP, .44Sp., .44Mag.

So, that leaves what?

.25 and .32?

 

[drgrant]

Bruce, blame the feds for that little bundle of stupidity. I agree it's completely bogus., as if handgun ammo is some kind of extra danger or some crap. It's kind of ironic that an 18 year old can legally buy a 12 ga, 3.5 inch magnum buckshot load, or 12G slugs, but they can't buy "pistol cartridges" if they don't say the magic words.

-Mike

 

[Bruce for NH State Rep]

The irony is I think a year or two ago there was noises about NH even getting rid of its permit system, not entirely but making it not required for anyone legally able to own a handgun. I think it got tanked or
didn't quite make it.

There was Senate Bill 55 from March of '07, sponsored by State Senator Peter Burling (co-founder of that well-known NH activist group, The Nanny State Project), that sought to give police chiefs more discretionary power in denying pistol licenses.

During the committee hearing, when it was becoming apparent that the bill wasn't going to make it out of the room alive, Burling tried to offer up an alternative bill that HE CLAIMS would have eliminated the licensing requirement and adopted Vermont-style carry laws.

You could smell the skepticism in the room. Without actually having seen this new bill, no one was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and he was essentially told to sit down and shut up by a room packed full of "armed resistors".

Not sure if this is the one you're talking about Bill, but I just enjoy telling the story.

 

[Bruce for NH State Rep]

Bruce, blame the feds for that little bundle of stupidity. I agree it's completely bogus., as if handgun ammo is some kind of extra danger or some crap. It's kind of ironic that an 18 year old can legally buy a 12 ga, 3.5 inch magnum buckshot load, or 12G slugs, but they can't buy "pistol cartridges" if they don't say the magic words.

-Mike

Yep.

Like the MA laws that would have made me a criminal if I had an empty "normal-capacity" magazine locked up at home, but told me I'd be OK if I walked around Harvard Square with a backpack holding 200 loaded 10-round magazines.