Steel Target Build

Cmaro21

Cmaro21

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[STRIKE=update]Edit - New build started - See post #23 - http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/219622-Steel-Target-Build?p=3579540&viewfull=1#post3579540[/STRIKE]
Edit - I finished the dueling tree, post# 29 http://www.northeastshooters.com/vb...Target-Build?p=3917088&viewfull=1#post3917088


I have been wanting to build this for a while. My club SUCKS and you can't do anything fun there so I decided to build a set of steel swinging targets to shoot at in the sand pits.

The design.
I am building a basic a-frame, think swing set. The legs and cross arms are going to be 1" pipe. I am using 1 3/8 pipe that will be cut and welded into the a-frame shape and gusseted. The legs will fit into the frame along with the cross arm so it can be taken down and everything laid flat in a truck and be easy to move. The targets themselves are 1/2" steel (cold rolled) cut in 12" circles. I know these should be ar 500 but this will have to do for now. Once they get dented / holed they will be retired as shooting at dented steel isn't safe. Hopefully when that time comes I will have some ar 500 that I can use. I am going to weld angle iron to the rounds and small 3/8" diameter pipe at the other end. The 3/8th pipe will be bent around to hook over the cross arm and hang the unit. I plan on making 4 plates and staggering them up, down, up, down.

I was playing with the idea of putting a stop above the cross arm so that the plates would not rest exactly at 90 degrees. This would offset them so the bottom of the plate would be farther from you (the shooter) than the top. Let's say 85 degrees on the plate. My thought was that this would deflect the majority of the spalling into the dirt. Should I do this or does this open the possibility of the spalling being deflected back towards the shooter more likely?

I'll post some pics as I make progress. Input and lessons learned are welcomed. I hate building shit twice.


20130822_203223.jpg 20130822_203236.jpg
 
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What are you going to be shooting at it with? Anything, just hand guns?

If it just hand guns those disks will likley never wear out. i build my pistol swinger with 3/8" mild steel and they hold up to stuff .44 mag and lighter (I have nothing heavier to try) with just slight dents with .44.

I wouldn't worry about putting to much of an angle on them, just hanging them a certain way will let them naturally hang back.

This is the one I make and sell on here. Keep a look out, I do AR500 group buys every so often. I am thinking another month or so and I will do another one.

IMG_8677.jpg


http://www.northeastshooters.com/vb...sories/184630-center-fire-pistol-swinger.html
 
Nice looking target set. I will keep my eye out for that ar 500 steel but I am doing this on a budget. Everything I have so far has been donated to me so the price was right. Would anything bad come from angling the plates? I thought the benefit would be that spalling goes into dirt and it would also stop the plates from swaying. After a hit, it moves back but on the swing forward it hits the detent and stops. The following sketch is what I had in mind.


77060d1377221803-steel-target-build-sketch.png

sketch.png
 
If you want to put some angle on them, it won't hurt anything aside from making the target appear smaller/oblong. I don't see any detent, it just looks like you hang them on hooks? those half inch plates are heavy, I do not see it swinging out of control at all.
 
If you are shooting pistol rounds only and don't go overboard the plates should last a long time. I have some 8in diameter plates made out of 3/8 in mild steel that have lasted about 30 years. I find it best to hang each plate on a hook attached to a pipe on a single stand, much like an IPSC target stand. This allows me to place the individual plates/stands in any formation I need. Works great for setting up stages for Steel Challenge practice.
 
I just posted my bed-frame build a week or so ago. Tried it out once so far with success. Suggestion if I may: What you gain in strength by the thick walled tube, you lose it portability of having to carry the sucker around. The lighter steel around the outside seems to hold fine, then like you I'm eventually going to go with the A500 for plates.
I like the light bed frame because I aint the biggest dude and carrying the thing 125 yards down range and back sorta sucks.
 
I finally found the time to put this together. I need to put some finishing touches and put some paint on it but its ready for lead. I ended up not putting a second bar across with detents to stop the swingers. Because of the location of the welds, the plates already have a 3-4* deflection (bottom away from the shooter). Everything comes apart so you end up with 4 swinging targets, 4 legs, a crossarm and the 2 a-frame brackets.
*Edit - pictures should be working, I used tapatalk instead of the site uploader.

tatezu4a.jpg


7adymy8u.jpg


4ejagady.jpg
 
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What clubs are you shooting at that allow steel shooting?

Or are you at other ranges?

I asked at a club that I am in the process of joining AFTER I was in on a group buy w/ [cerberus] ...

Its a nice club, but that kinda pissed me off(the no steel shooting)
 
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He said sand pit, not a club. His club will not let him shoot steel.

I want a sand pit steel set up as well. I'll be shooting a 308 at it, so I am guessing ar500 will be the minimum necessary. I also want to be able to leave it in the pit, hidden so no one steals/messes with it. Thinking i'll spray it fde and lay it down...

Going with a KISS set up, basically what you did. Hooks welded to the plate on a "Swing" frame. Like you, my only concern is the possibility of ricochet...

Any feedback on minimizing ricochet would be great.
 
First run results.

I had some family up from NJ this past weekend and brought some of them shooting so we tested out the new steel targets. They had never shot a gun ever so it was pretty basic. Taught them my version of the 4c's and off we went.
Started them with .22 rifle, they did great. Let them try a few different 9's, again great. When I took out the AR they damn near shit themselves with giddiness. I took 1 test shot at the 1/2" steel I am using for the targets and that turned out to be a bad idea. This stuff is a 12" circle, 1/2" thick structural steel. I don't know the exact rating but it is dense. Using XM 193 it stopped the round but pitted about 75% through the plate with a large dimple on the rear. You might be ok hiding behind but for longevity of targets, any rifle over .22 seems like it is going to need ar-500. The 9's didn't even marr the face. I will try and get a picture of the pit hole up later, as I was watching and instructing new shooters I had no time for camera shots.


Jrjr said:
Any feedback on minimizing ricochet would be great.
Click to expand...

So this was a pretty big concern of mine. The way I welded the plate behind the angle iron gives the front face a 1-2* down deflection. So the top of the plate is closer to you than the bottom. This is what I wanted and it seems to work out great. I was watching the guests shoot and their hands the whole time but when I shot I watched some of the spalling. I found that the spread is 360* of spalling all around, watch some high speed vids on you tube this happens 99% of the time. The ground directly under the targets started to get a small divot in it, think rain overflowing a gutter over time. This extended out about 8' from the target and then wasn't visible at all. I would like to test the energy of the spalling next time I go and plan to do so using copy paper. I am going to stand a sheet up in the divot line using something like a lawn sign. I am going to move it in towards the target until I can see the spalling penetrate / rip the paper. From the look on the ground, I would say 8' away and the spalling would not break the paper so that will be my starting point. It won't mean much but it will make me feel better shooting at the steel so long as you are shooting at it perpendicular to the plate and not on an angle where you could induce a deflection.

I am not an engineer but I did stay at a holiday inn once. If anything is confusing or you have more questions please let me know and I will try and explain. One last finding, don't use semi gloss spray bomb... That stuff is super tacky and the sand sticks too it. I am going to have to blast over everything again with a dull matte spray bomb.

Question from me to you. AR500 steel, what thickness do I need? Targetman says that 3/8" will work on anything under 3200fps that is lead. Well, i don't shoot lead out of my AR so would XM193 ruin the AR500 steel? Would I need to get 1/2" AR500? Several of his active targets do not come in 1/2", only 3/8".

Thanks - Cmaro
 
Mild steel simply does not have the hardness to withstand bullet strikes for anything except handgun rounds. The swingers I build for pistol hold up with 3/8" mild steel all day with your typical pistol around. Heavy magnums will start to dent the surface around 20 yards.


3/8" AR500 is all you will need. after having cut up two full sheets of it for sale, it has held up great for everyone who bought a plate. I have a few test pieces set up at 50 yards, and they get a a decent crater with nato spec .223. I watched a customer shoot an AR500 swinger I built for him at 100 yards with .223 and it did really just marred the paint. The slite difference in energy makes a big different.

I have some squares, but never got around to setting them up at 100.

xm193 spec .223 @ 50 yards (the schmears are .22LR)
1262716_742213167120_1027763769_o.jpg





A customers swinger review.
http://www.northeastshooters.com/vb...9595-review-custom-rifle-swinging-target.html
 
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PaulR said:
Woah! hey! To hell with the target build, tell us about the CAR!!!
Click to expand...
Not my car, that is my buddy's shop. He has the welding equipment and set me up right. I believe it is a 1970 Chevelle. He helped me weld, I helped put the engine back in and mate it with the trans.

[cerberus];3503216 said:
3/8" AR500 is all you will need....at 50 yards, and they get a a decent crater with nato spec .223. I watched a customer shoot an AR500 swinger I built for him at 100 yards with .223 and it did really just marred the paint. The slite difference in energy makes a big different.

I have some squares, but never got around to setting them up at 100.

xm193 spec .223 @ 50 yards (the schmears are .22LR)
1262716_742213167120_1027763769_o.jpg
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info cerberus. So on that pic, how deep are those craters from the .223? If I did not want that to happen should I go with 1/2" instead of the 3/8"? I will be shooting at these from 30yds - 300. Action shooting and training.
 
Many clubs ban steel shooting because enough people do stupid things. Also for rifle any ways 100yd is the minimum recomended. My friend shot some surplus 762x25 at a steel swinger and that bullet came right back and hit his spotting scope.....
 
mac1911 said:
Many clubs ban steel shooting because enough people do stupid things. Also for rifle any ways 100yd is the minimum recomended. My friend shot some surplus 762x25 at a steel swinger and that bullet came right back and hit his spotting scope.....
Click to expand...

Wow that's a scary situation to be in. And I'm glad my club allows steel shooting. I've got one of these ( http://store.actiontarget.com/evil-roy-practice-target.html) with the AR550 and a AR500 10" plate, works awesome and is incredibly durable and folds up nicely for easy transport- I've had it for about 2 years now. The only thing that dented it is when I had a friend of mine shoot at it with his AR and it made small pea size dents in the steel (I think it may have been some high velocity/steel core rounds? not sure, don't own an AR). Thousands of 7.62x39 rounds from my SKS at 100 yards finally cracked the weld on the back of the plate and I called up Action Target and they said give us $20 (price difference between AR550 and AR500 plates) and we will ship it to you. The AR550 is holding up very well. What's great about this target is that the plate is angled downward and throws everything at the ground. I've shot at it with 9mm and .357 mag as close as 30 feet and never had a ricochet after thousands of rounds fired at it. Got mine on Brownell's since they have cheaper shipping and coupon codes available.
 
mac1911 said:
Many clubs ban steel shooting because enough people do stupid things. Also for rifle any ways 100yd is the minimum recomended. My friend shot some surplus 762x25 at a steel swinger and that bullet came right back and hit his spotting scope.....
Click to expand...

100yds on rifle noted. When I was shooting 9 we were 20yds and the spalling was minimal. See my post above about testing the energy behind it. Any clarification about the 3/8ths or 1/2" for me?
 
Steel Build #2.

Shooting Tree.
I just got the raw materials. I hope to start welding next weekend. I still need to come up with a compact base design that will be stable.

6swing.jpg

20131127_185729.jpg

20131127_185738.jpg

20131127_185749.jpg
 
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I use the steel targets cerberus made and they are great. They are 3/8" AR500 like he said earlier. I have shot everything at them: .22LR, 9mm, .40, .45, .44 mag, .223, .308, 7.62x39...and they are holding up great. We shoot at them pretty close with pistols, probably 15yd, and even with rifles/carbines sometimes we do 30yd but all the way to 100yd.

I bet we have put something like 1000 rounds into both plates we bought and they are still looking great. Just keep repainting them and flip them around once in a while! .223 will put little marks on it, especially close up, but nothing bad at all. We've had zero incidents of ricochet. A few times the jacket exploding on the plate with damage the stand (we made wood ones) but that's it.

Note that we hang ours with heavy chains, so that helps to reduce the damage to the plate versus a fixed plate. Also I think it helps a lot preventing any ricochet. The only problem is with the .44 mag sometimes it flips the plate all the way around so you have to stop and reset it.
 
Thanks for the info Matt. I still need to weld up my dualing tree and repair the damaged plate on my swingers. I hope to get some smaller ar500 in 1/2" to also put off the swinger setup and hit with up to 50BMG per the specs. No, I don't have a 50 now, but I am future proofing this ;)
 
Built a basic "real estate sign" swinger with ar450. Great for handgun ammo but 556 was dimpling it.

Put the 308 to it and it was like a hot knife to butter.

100MEDIA%2524IMAG0283.jpg
 
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Cmaro21 said:
Steel Build #2.

Shooting Tree.
I just got the raw materials. I hope to start welding next weekend. I still need to come up with a compact base design that will be stable.

View attachment 86338

View attachment 86368

View attachment 86369

View attachment 86370
Click to expand...


It's done.
20140425_163053.jpg
20140425_163111.jpg

I think I might need to box out or gusset the feet better, the stock I used was too thin so it might need some upgrades. The design is removable. The angle iron removes from the base, the base it 2 pieces with a gap that the 6' piece sleeves into. The paddles remove from the tubes also for storage and replacement. It worked ok, I need to dremel the tubes a bit to help with the flip. If you didn't hit it on the outside 1/3, it would sometimes stop at 90* and hide instead of making it the full ~165* spin.

The tubes ended up getting cut in 1/2 and I remove about 2~ from the paddle handle also. This left it tight but there is enough room to remove a paddle from the one above while consolidating the spacing. The overall length is ~6' with the first paddle ~26" off the deck. If the backstop isn't that high you can always just pull a paddle or two. You need a WIDE backstop for this or it needs to be tucked in tight to the sand. The angle iron will deflect bad shots but you don't want any to be flyers.
 
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Cmaro21 said:
It's done.
View attachment 103264
View attachment 103263

I think I might need to box out or gusset the feet better, the stock I used was too thin so it might need some upgrades. The design is removable. The angle iron removes from the base, the base it 2 pieces with a gap that the 6' piece sleeves into. The paddles remove from the tubes also for storage and replacement. It worked ok, I need to dremel the tubes a bit to help with the flip. If you didn't hit it on the outside 1/3, it would sometimes stop at 90* and hide instead of making it the full ~165* spin.

The tubes ended up getting cut in 1/2 and I remove about 2~ from the paddle handle also. This left it tight but there is enough room to remove a paddle from the one above while consolidating the spacing. The overall length is ~6' with the first paddle ~26" off the deck. If the backstop isn't that high you can always just pull a paddle or two. You need a WIDE backstop for this or it needs to be tucked in tight to the sand. The angle iron will deflect bad shots but you don't want any to be flyers.
Click to expand...

thats sweet, i just ordered the stuff to make one of these from targetman.
 

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