-
If you enjoy the forum please consider supporting it by signing up for a NES Membership The benefits pay for the membership many times over.
-
Be sure to enter the NES/MFS May Giveaway ***Canik METE SFX***
State House News: GOP REP. PUSHES 10-YEAR MINIMUM SENTENCE FOR FIRING ON A POLICE
- Thread starter ronbok
- Start date
![[rolleyes]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/042.gif "Roll Eyes [rolleyes]")
Bill Nance
Banned
Mandatory minimums are ALWAYS a bad idea. If you have trial judges that impose sentences you don't like, there are (usually) ways to gt rid of them. Mandatory sentences absolutely guarantee injustice. Ask the college kids doing 5-year federal sentences for growing a single pot plant in the backyard -it happens.
As for knowingly shooting at a cop, I know of at least one case, though I can't remember the name, of a guy who shot a cop and successfully argued self-defense. If this law had been in place and the jury clearly blinded by cop-worship, the judge, even though it was OBVIOUS the guy didn't do anything any other reaspnable person wouldn't, HAS to hand out the 10 years.
You don't like judges, get rid of them. Judges are supposed to you know, like um, use JUDGEMENT. Mandatory minimums take away that judgement, even from the best judges in the land.
It gets tiresome listening to the pols wring their hands over someone getting off too easy and then, as in the case of Buris, completely ignore a case of a prosecutor essentially conspiring to murder someone under cover of law.
If you want vengeance, then do away with courts. If you want something approaching justice, you have to let judges have discretion, even if they do sometimes make decisions you don't like. BTW since when is it a common occurrence that people shoot cops and walk? What a joke.
As for knowingly shooting at a cop, I know of at least one case, though I can't remember the name, of a guy who shot a cop and successfully argued self-defense. If this law had been in place and the jury clearly blinded by cop-worship, the judge, even though it was OBVIOUS the guy didn't do anything any other reaspnable person wouldn't, HAS to hand out the 10 years.
You don't like judges, get rid of them. Judges are supposed to you know, like um, use JUDGEMENT. Mandatory minimums take away that judgement, even from the best judges in the land.
It gets tiresome listening to the pols wring their hands over someone getting off too easy and then, as in the case of Buris, completely ignore a case of a prosecutor essentially conspiring to murder someone under cover of law.
If you want vengeance, then do away with courts. If you want something approaching justice, you have to let judges have discretion, even if they do sometimes make decisions you don't like. BTW since when is it a common occurrence that people shoot cops and walk? What a joke.
My thoughts exactly. Seems to me that MGLs Ch. 265 S. 15, A & B plus S. 13D should cover the turf adequately.
Want to bet? They just "reduce" the charges to simple A&B to get around the "mandatory minimum" and take the plea bargain. It's done all the time . . . how do you think they get around the Bartley-Fox minimum time for possession of a gun w/o a license?
Fully agree!
Sorry, I disagree. See my comments above and HC's below.
Amen! Very well said. Enforcement is everything.
For the non-believers, spend some time sitting in a courtroom and see how it REALLY <doesn't> WORK, not what we see on TV!
So how many cops are getting guns shot at them verses civilians per year. These are the same police chiefs I trust that argued against the recent Katrina bill here in MA that might have allowed me to protect my family and self during a disaster aren't they? Ain't life a bitch when your left with similar laws and protections in the courts as the general population.
This is not holding them to a higher standard this is creating a higher standard that should not exist. I expect police to be treated the same as everyone else. No better, No worse.Yes...imagine that! The police being held to a higher standard.
Funny how some people only want them held to a higher standard when they screw up.![[thinking]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/010.gif "Thinking [thinking]")
Let me ask a question even a moron can understand...
Why would the criminals obey this new law, but not the ones already on the books?
Last edited:
Which illustrates the root of the entire issue. As plenty have pointed out, what the guy did already violates a host of laws. Why a new one?
The issue isn't the legality of the act, it's enforcement.
NOTHING will change as long as there's leinient sentencing.
They're saying one person is more valuable than another. As derek said "more equal than us." The problem is this sort of mentality leads to more putting down the masses. And it will lead to cops thinking they are above everyone else. Equal crimes, equal punishment.
More Equal than us... again.
Let me spin EC's response up one level . . .
If they aren't afraid of the law against MURDER (the cop in this case), what makes you think that they will "stop" if they are facing a 10 year Minimum Mandatory for Shooting at a Cop?????
Inquiring minds really want to know?
- Joined
- Nov 4, 2007
- Messages
- 1,384
- Likes
- 103
It's beyond that.
Anyone, knowingly firing at a LEO, knows that there is a good chance that he will be dead in a moment when the LEO shoots back. If the bg gets the first shot off and disables the LEO, the bg will be found dead after resisting the LEO's friends that show up on his tail.
With this in mind, I don't think a 10 year mandatory minimum is going to have much effect.
- Joined
- Nov 4, 2007
- Messages
- 1,384
- Likes
- 103
cops
I could care less about the Chiefs.They are not the ones going to gun calls.They are pencil pushers and wannabee ploiticians for the most part.Keep turning your backs on the working cops and you will all get your wish.Total mayhem.If you think cops are hard to deal with,wait till soldiers with machineguns are stopping you every block demanding an ID.Marshall Law is not something I would like to ever see happen.Also,if you think the soldiers on the street will let Mall Ninjas role play,you are sadly mistaken.
I could care less about the Chiefs.They are not the ones going to gun calls.They are pencil pushers and wannabee ploiticians for the most part.Keep turning your backs on the working cops and you will all get your wish.Total mayhem.If you think cops are hard to deal with,wait till soldiers with machineguns are stopping you every block demanding an ID.Marshall Law is not something I would like to ever see happen.Also,if you think the soldiers on the street will let Mall Ninjas role play,you are sadly mistaken.
A couple brought up concerns about not knowing that the person is a cop, but the article says that it would be a 10 year minimum for anyone who knowing fires on a police officer.
Also pbearperry, stop looking for a fight. If you want to be listened to, stop making leaps of logic like "ok you hate cops." You won't get (nor will you deserve) any respect with statements like that.
Also pbearperry, stop looking for a fight. If you want to be listened to, stop making leaps of logic like "ok you hate cops." You won't get (nor will you deserve) any respect with statements like that.
dwarven1
Lonely Mountain Arms
Not in MA, there aren't. There's no elections, no way to recall one... all you can do is put public pressure on the scumbag to resign.
.
Nope. Just makes a good sound bite. Won't do a damn thing.
It's not so much a matter of one's opinion of LE as it is a matter of wasting time and money to create laws that are not only unnecessary but also assign more value to the lives and safety of one citizen over another. They choose to work that job just as I chose my schooling and career. Why should I have my safety judged as less important than another individual due to his choice of job, especially when there are PLENTY of laws on the books that can do the job adequately now? You don't circumvent the bad choices made by prosecutors by creating new, redundant laws. That kind of thinking is what got 10 lb. triggers and idiot indicators put on MA. pistols.
Bill Nance
Banned
Not in MA, there aren't. There's no elections, no way to recall one... all you can do is put public pressure on the scumbag to resign.
.
By all means inform me, since I confess to being ignorant of the way the arcane laws in this miserable pest-hole work....
A trial judge (not an appelate judge) has a lifetime appointment? They neither have to run for election nor can be voted out by the legislature or people?
If so, that's an easy fix. It's called a constitutional amendment. I admit that nothing surprises me in this state anymore, but that one would be another to add to the long list of WTFs about this place.
Bill Nance
Banned
So let me get this straight. I live in Lowell, where my wife and I are prohibited from having a CCW even though people from other states get one without so much as second thought. If my wife goes to the video store in Centerville and some guy beats the ever loving bejesus out of her, steals her purse and leaves her bleeding and in the hospital for a week, that's ok. But a police officer, trained, armed and ready who gets shot AT, not necessarily even wounded,...well THAT's something we need to put a mandatory minimum on?
That's the F**ing job. Sometimes you get shot at. (Mighty damn rarely in my seven years of crime reporting by the way). If you don't LIKE the job, get another one.
It's the same bullshit arguments abotu helmet laws that I've heard cops give me: "I'm tired of scraping up motorcycle riders off the pavement." My answer to you is the same as it is to them. If you don't like the job, then QUIT. Aside from the fact that mandatory minimus are ALWAYS a bad idea, I fail to see why your sorry ass is so sacrosanct when mine isn't.
It's against the law. You're going to BURN if you kill a cop, a fact even the most drug addled maniac is well aware of. I fail to see why you need special legal protection.
This is a PR move plain and simple. some jackass in the legislature is looking to boost his "tough-on-crime" credentials, passing another pointless law, but sending the message that your life as a public SERVANT is more important than the lives of those you are supposedly SERVING.
- Joined
- Nov 4, 2007
- Messages
- 1,384
- Likes
- 103
what makes me think they will stop?
Of course they won't stop,just like they won't stop doing anything else.However,while they are rotting away in jail for a stretch,maybe some other scumbag will kill them in jail?Also,while they are away,they will not be spitting out any little future felons out.OK I can dream can't I?
Of course they won't stop,just like they won't stop doing anything else.However,while they are rotting away in jail for a stretch,maybe some other scumbag will kill them in jail?Also,while they are away,they will not be spitting out any little future felons out.OK I can dream can't I?
Do a lot of the people that shoot at cops now get away with it? I know the ones that shoot at regular people do, but I thought the ones that shoot at cops get special treatment.
seanc
NES Member
So, if this passes.. just so I understand and get these new rankings straight..
Will this trump a HATE CRIME (minority or gay) shooting and killing?? Or will police be now above them?
It gets so confusing!!! Pretty soon it will only be the white guys (non police) that criminals will be allowed to shoot at!!!
Gay, nope, hate crime.
Woman, nope, hate crime
handicapped, nope hate crime
police, protected status
minority, nope, hate crime..
White guy, non police, good to go, open season no bag limit..
Will this trump a HATE CRIME (minority or gay) shooting and killing?? Or will police be now above them?
It gets so confusing!!! Pretty soon it will only be the white guys (non police) that criminals will be allowed to shoot at!!!
Gay, nope, hate crime.
Woman, nope, hate crime
handicapped, nope hate crime
police, protected status
minority, nope, hate crime..
White guy, non police, good to go, open season no bag limit..
![[rofl]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/013.gif "ROFL [rofl]")
That used to be the case, but with a video-cam chopper overhead and a camera in every cop's face, regrettably they can't let this happen as frequently any more.
I lost a LE friend who was KIA by a perp. The perp didn't let himself be captured and I asked no questions. I happened to hear this on my scanner as it went down, but had no idea who was involved at the time. This was a lot of years ago.
I have no fear of that event and as will many others, we will deal with it accordingly in the event it ever comes to that! What I fear at the moment are capital punishement laws that protect one class over another class which would most certainly get us more quickly to the events you describe.
I don't feel that any law is going to make a cop any safer at what they do when a person is willing to shoot and I certainly don't want myself or my family to be next in line once he knows he has a pre-determined sentence because he already popped a cap at a cop.
Last edited:
If anything, it will make them aim a little better[sad2]
MaverickNH
NES Member
http://www.boston.com/news/local/ma...or_firing_on_police/?p1=Well_MostPop_Emailed5
If shooting at someone (police, in this case) in the course of committing a felony is attempted murder, and 2-3/4-5 years sentance is handed down by the judge - what kind of plea agreement was made? Did these guys turn informant on other scumbags? Did the DA and or judge just drop the ball?
Some states have/had the death sentance only for killing LEOs - life sentance otherwise. Punishment DOES deter crime.
In this case, the state is seeing to it's own without infringing on individual rights. Is it another step down the slippery slope - maybe...
If shooting at someone (police, in this case) in the course of committing a felony is attempted murder, and 2-3/4-5 years sentance is handed down by the judge - what kind of plea agreement was made? Did these guys turn informant on other scumbags? Did the DA and or judge just drop the ball?
Some states have/had the death sentance only for killing LEOs - life sentance otherwise. Punishment DOES deter crime.
In this case, the state is seeing to it's own without infringing on individual rights. Is it another step down the slippery slope - maybe...
You guys DO know that there's SEVERAL laws on the books specifically pointed at the protection of one group over another... right???
Punch a pregnant woman and see how fast you get locked up for felony A&B. The same punch to a "normal citizen" and you can't even be arrested if it didn't happen in a cop's presence. Assault an EMT or impede them in the performance of their duties and you'll be joining Mr. Preggo puncher... That's just to name a few.
I know a lot of you are hung up on the issue of a mandatory minimum, but spend some time in a courtroom looking at the inequities of sentencing (specifically in Boston, where I spend my time) and your disgust will soon make you a staunch supporter of mandatory minimums for severe crimes, I assure you. There's no need for mandatory minimums everywhere, but I tell you, I love the knowledge that when I take some gang member with an illegal gun off the streets of my city, I'm guarenteed not to see him again for 18 months.
Punch a pregnant woman and see how fast you get locked up for felony A&B. The same punch to a "normal citizen" and you can't even be arrested if it didn't happen in a cop's presence. Assault an EMT or impede them in the performance of their duties and you'll be joining Mr. Preggo puncher... That's just to name a few.
I know a lot of you are hung up on the issue of a mandatory minimum, but spend some time in a courtroom looking at the inequities of sentencing (specifically in Boston, where I spend my time) and your disgust will soon make you a staunch supporter of mandatory minimums for severe crimes, I assure you. There's no need for mandatory minimums everywhere, but I tell you, I love the knowledge that when I take some gang member with an illegal gun off the streets of my city, I'm guarenteed not to see him again for 18 months.
