Sometimes I think dealers are worse than LEOs when it comes to laws...

[DickWanner]

Okay some background:

I'm in search of a Glock model 34 made prior to 21OCT1998, with a serial-prefix of CWZ or older. I might be able to find one newer than this legally but aparently Glock will not honor their warranty for any of those guns.



That said I just got off the phone with Stateline gun shop in Mason, NH. I told him specifically what I want and he's trying to tell me it had to be registered in Mass prior to this and that there are no exceptions. Well I'm like #1 LEO surplus and #2 if someone moves into the state and does a face-to-face. He responded with no and that any deal like that is illegal. Now at first I was under the impression myself that the Glock had to be registered prior to 21OCT1998 but somewhere along the line someone else informed me that any Glock can be brought into the state if it was made prior to that date. From the general consensus of other people they tell me that dealers are no more informed about laws than some LEOs are. Needless to say the guy was pretty rude with me and even if he had what I wanted I won't be dealing with them, ever.

 

[Len-2A Training]

You can buy anything that is already here in MA on FTF. Pre-10/21/98 mfd from any MA dealer.

As for warranty issues.

- Glock will service ANY Glock regardless of DOB forever. There is one caveat wrt MA.

- If a frame breaks and needs replacement, REGARDLESS of DOB of that gun, they will NOT replace it with a post-10/21/98 frame. The laws allow them to do it, but Glock-USA mgmt made a decision otherwise. A few of us tried to convince them to just abide by the law, but they are afraid of the AG and refuse to deal with it.

So as an example . . . if you had a 1991 gun, broke the frame and sent it to Glock for repair. If they don't have a pre-10/21/98 frame for that model gun, they will refuse to replace it!!

 

[DickWanner]

First two I already new, thankx for the clearup on the warranty. Hrm, kinda makes me think twice about picking up a G34 as they're a 3rd gen model. Then again Glocks are pretty darn reliable and don't KB as much as people think they do lol. I wish I could find a G17L but I hear those are almost as hard to find as a dealer that knows his laws

 

[Hanwei]

You can buy anything that is already here in MA on FTF. Pre-10/21/98 mfd from any MA dealer.

As for warranty issues.

- Glock will service ANY Glock regardless of DOB forever. There is one caveat wrt MA.

- If a frame breaks and needs replacement, REGARDLESS of DOB of that gun, they will NOT replace it with a post-10/21/98 frame. The laws allow them to do it, but Glock-USA mgmt made a decision otherwise. A few of us tried to convince them to just abide by the law, but they are afraid of the AG and refuse to deal with it.

So as an example . . . if you had a 1991 gun, broke the frame and sent it to Glock for repair. If they don't have a pre-10/21/98 frame for that model gun, they will refuse to replace it!!

Here's some optimism for you guys...

Even though the above stated by Len is Glock's policy for frame replacements I must say that 3rd Gen replacement frames do make it through the cracks and back to the owner.

I purchased a Pre-98 Glock 19 from a MA Dealer this summer that had some sort of a KB malfunction while in possession of its previous owner, only destroying the frame.

He sent it back to Glock. Glock checked the slide, chamber, etc... determined everything above the frame was fine... slapped a new 3rd Gen Replacement frame (Serial number begins with "G") on it and, albeit with some hesitation, sent it back to the owner in MA. If I remember correctly the dealer told me they had to make a call to Glock for the owner but it was returned to the owner with the 3rd Gen replacement frame in the end.

He put it on consignment and that's when I scooped it up.

Anyway... It sucks that Glock has broken under pressure from the AG but 3rd Gen frames do make it back to MA. Or maybe mine is the only one

H

 

[drgrant]

That said I just got off the phone with Stateline gun shop in Mason, NH. I told him specifically what I want and he's trying to tell me it had to be registered in Mass prior to this and that there are no exceptions. Well I'm like #1 LEO surplus and #2 if someone moves into the state and does a face-to-face. He responded with no and that any deal like that is illegal. Now at first I was under the impression myself that the Glock had to be registered prior to 21OCT1998 but somewhere along the line someone else informed me that any Glock can be brought into the state if it was made prior to that date. From the general consensus of other people they tell me that dealers are no more informed about laws than some LEOs are. Needless to say the guy was pretty rude with me and even if he had what I wanted I won't be dealing with them, ever.

ANYTHING on the EOPS roster can be "imported" as long as you
can somehow prove the given gun was -manufactured- before
10/21/98. (For Glocks the SN list is generally accepted, for
other guns you can often call the factory and check the SN, and
then make a note of who you spoke to, etc, or get written confirmation
by mail. )

A lot of out of state dealers don't understand the MA handgun
compliance laws well, if at all. Theoretically in this case they
shouldn't care.... because the compliance problem is not really
at their end of the transaction anyways... the problem is a lot of
them fear having to "eat" the transfer/shipping costs if they send
a gun down to an MA FFL and it "bounces" and gets sent back to
them because it's noncompliant.

And further, some dealers will say that FTFs on noncompliant
stuff isn't legal.... which we know is BS, but the reason being is
they don't like the fact that particular avenue cuts into their
profit margins greatly. Some of them might also want to create
the impression that certain things are harder to get then they
actually are, allowing them to inflate the price on something
badly.

FFL's can basically do whatever they want, there's nothing forcing
them to sell or transfer a particular gun.

I can tell you now, though, that in the above case, a lot more
respectful answer would have been "Well, regardless of whatever
the law says, we don't deal with those kinds of transfers... sorry
I can't help you. " instead of trying to baffle the customer with
bs.

Another huge problem is in NH, MA's reputation for being one of
the top five worst gun-unfriendly states in the country precedes
itself really badly. Sometimes its easier to get guns sent here
from further away; eg, some FFLs don't care what FFL they send
it to as long as the recipient has a valid FFL and the buyer is willing
to eat any charges if it doesn't pan out. (eg, shipping, restocking,
etc... )

-Mike

 

[Gaffer]

One of the things that many buyers forget is that if a dealer makes a tiny mistake, his FFL being taken away and perhaps even jail time can be the resilt. I worked for a gun shop for 9 years and they were in great fear of the power of the ATF.

If you were a convienience store and knew that even one mistake in the coffee cream would put you out of business, you too would be very very careful to an extreme. Give the guy a break, he is only trying to stay legal.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

(Serial number begins with "G")

If this is a single character prefix (no letters after "G"), it means that is was a frame made specifically for replacement purposes, not one pulled off another gun. "S" is used for slides and "L" for barrels.

Glock service has advised me that they do occasionally re-use parts from guns, so you are not always assured you will get a single character prefix number when you replace a major component. A co worker broke the locking lug off the bottom of his G23 barrel (when I asked a Glock instructor if this was a common problem, his reply was "Model 23, right?") and split the frame along a locking rail. He now has the original frame, "S" numbered slide and "L" numbered barrel - all service courtesy of Glock.

If you know a local armorer, he or she can call Glock Service to get repair parts sent if you have a problem - though the factory likes to see the entire gun when there is a major component failure like the slide.

 

[drgrant]

One of the things that many buyers forget is that if a dealer makes a tiny mistake, his FFL being taken away and perhaps even jail time can be the resilt. I worked for a gun shop for 9 years and they were in great fear of the power of the ATF.

In this case the risk to the sending FFL is pretty much
zero. Even if the glock being transferred was clearly not
compliant, an interstate FFL > FFL transfer into MA of a noncompliant
handgun is not illegal. There are MA dealers that have a crapload
of guns they can't sell to MA residents, but they sell them via
gunbroker to buyers in other states that can own them, or to
other FFL's, qualifying LE types, etc.

In this case the obligation of compliance rests squarely
on the shoulders of the FFL on the MA side, he's the one with the
burden of following the MA laws.... the actual end transfer is taking
place between him and the buyer, not the original dealer!

I can understand an NH dealer saying they don't transfer
handguns to MA, just because of the potential pain in the
ass factor. (This is really a time/money problem as opposed to
a LEGAL one, however) I can't understand them making up laws that
don't exist proffering an interpretation of the laws which is
blatantly false. If what they said was actually true, many of
the larger dealers in MA would be out of business and/or
in prison, and at least a couple of these dealers are VERY
cautious when it comes to dealing with the law. These people
import certified pre-98 glocks all the time without much
fanfare. It's not an act which requires a rocket scientist
level of understanding.


-Mike

 

[Hanwei]

If this is a single character prefix (no letters after "G"), it means that is was a frame made specifically for replacement purposes, not one pulled off another gun. "S" is used for slides and "L" for barrels.

Yup. It's a single letter prefix "G". Sorry if I came across above as sounding like Glock put a used 3rd Gen Frame on. They put a new 3rd Gen frame specifically made for replacement purposes.

H