snubby training

[Viking Kitten]

Some of you may remember my introductory posting - I am relatively new to shooting and was looking for suggestions on how to begin carrying concealed. Part of my hesitation was my lack of experience in anything other than a controlled range environment shooting at targets about 30' away, with all the time in the world to line up my next shot. Clearly, that experience is of limited value if it comes to defending myself on the street.

Took two classes last weekend focused solely on defensive use of and tactics with a snub nosed revolver. Put on by Michael deBethencourt of Northeastern Tactical Schools, the weekend was 17.5 hours of dynamic shooting, retention, weak handed shooting/loading skills and much more.

My range doesn't allow shooting at short distances, so this was the first time I had a chance to shoot my S&W Airweight 642 at close range - as little as 5'. Live drills included shooting with various sight pictures, reloading with speed strips and speed loaders as well as loose rounds, even shooting in the dark using a flashlight for target illumination. Michael's attention to safety was evident throughout the weekend.

Class attendees ranged from relative newbies such as myself to other certified instructors and one LEO. Throughout the days we were encouraged to ask questions and share our own experiences and techniques. We did a lot of laughing over the two days, but we did quite a bit of learning, too.

If anyone is considering some classes and would like to speak with me live, drop me an email. I'd be happy to share more about these classes.

 

[tele_mark]

Where did you take that course? I've been wanting to take than one sooooo bad for awhile, but he doesn't seem to be offering it at Harvard anymore.

 

[Viking Kitten]

These were out at the Smith & Wesson ranges in Springfield. Not sure if that's the only place he holds them or not. Several times throughout the weekend he mentioned Harvard, though.

 

[tele_mark]

I'm definitely watching for the next course when it comes up!

 

[Cross-X]

Michael de Bethencourt's web site is www.snubtraining.com. The site has a course schedule.

Michael is an expert in snub revolvers, defensive folding knife, and firearms retention, disarming and recovery technique.

You'll not soon forget a de Bethencourt training class!

 

[Davidk]

You can read a review of Michael's class on my website. Just follow the link to "Articles" www.armedresponsebook.com

 

[TY43215]

http://northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=10164&highlight=SNUB

 

[Viking Kitten]

Thanks RGS for posting the URL to an earlier thread.

I am by no means saying this is the ONLY class to take for snub training, nor am I saying that Michael insists his way is the only way. It is indeed a place for folks to start - if nothing else, it gave many of us an opportunity to learn techniques different from our customary ones so we could enhance our skills. It's our choice to use whatever feels most comfortable for the individual - he made that quite clear.

If he prefers his way, so be it. At no time did he appear disrespectful of the opinions, suggestions and techniques offered up by the class.

One thing I noted from your list of items with which you disagree with Michael - fully reloading. In my class he did not in any way endorse fully reloading in the midst of a fight. Many times he stated that it's better to get back in the fight with what you can (and do it while moving) than to expect a lull in the action to fully reload. (I'm not writing this particularly well but I think you understand my point.)

In any event, he is indeed an enthusiastic and energetic instructor.

My goal in any training is to open my eyes to safer practices, different (perhaps better for me) techniques, and to remind me to practice, practice, practice. It remains my most fervent hope never to have to put to practical use anything that I know about defending myself with a firearm.

Michael volunteers several times a year with the Second Amendment Sisters group that practices monthly at Braintree Rifle & Pistol. Through this I'd previously attended a workshop he did on pepper spray. So I was familiar with his style when I went into the snub training. There were several peopke in the 2 classes who had previously attending training with Michael. I would have to believe they'd found something of value to take home with them.

Again, thanks for the link to the earlier posts!

 

[The Goose]

Good for you for taking the class. I have taken Michael's snubby class also (as well as his knife and firearms retention class) and I thought it was quite good. He has his opinions, but I have found that every instructor I have met has had strong opinions, often conflicting. As you pointed out Michael is more then open to discussion and dissention. I try to take what has value to me. I have also taken Bert Du Vernay's 2 day snubby class at Sigarms. Michael's and Bert's classes were very different, but I learned a LOT at both.

I agree with RGS's safety concerns regarding the dummy ammo, I think Michael should change that up a bit. However, I have heard fervent debates regarding reloading styles, bobbed hammers, DA/SA versus DAO, hammer shrouds vs. not, ported barrels, lock vs. no lock and on and on. I have heard all sides argued with dead certainty anf frankly I just do not give a rat's behind. They are all choices. I think one should practice, keep seeking training and figure out what works for you.

As a side note I recently took a class in which the instructor led off by saying that use of the weaver stance and it's variations will get you killed. He then proceded to hammer that point. Personally, I do not agree with that statement, but I still found tremendous value in most of the class. Again, kudos to you for stepping up and training.

 

[Riverside]

Woman & Guns Magazine published their story on this Snubby Training that took place last July. It is on the newstands now. A friend sent me a copy. Good Story and nice photos.
Best Regards.

 

[abiffmaster]

As a side note I recently took a class in which the instructor led off by saying that use of the weaver stance and it's variations will get you killed.

What stance did he recommend? ISO?

 

[Davidk]

Depending on the context, he may be right. Weaver generally means your feet are planted. It is best to be moving and get off the x as fast as possible. I dont teach stances; I teach get off the x and get your sights on target however, and in what ever position necessary.

 

[rscalzo]

SIG in the past has run snub gun only training courses.

 

[abiffmaster]

It is best to be moving and get off the x as fast as possible. I dont teach stances; I teach get off the x and get your sights on target however, and in what ever position necessary.

Your approach and reasoning is well stated. I haven't take one of these courses yet but from what I've read and for safety purposes the trainee is the only one shooting(no one is shooting back at you)

It would be interesting to see how it plays out in a real gunfight... Paintball exercise is probably the safest as real as it gets scenario.

 

[Davidk]

After static and dynamic training, the next level of training is force on force where two parties, armed with simulated firearms (simunitions/airsoft) face off in realist situations.

Problem with paintball is the guns are not realistic

 

[Riverside]

What stance did he recommend? ISO?

Michael advocated having the dominant foot forward for one handed dominant hand firing.
From the article, " Don't snub that Snubby"written for the Jan-Feb issue of Women & Guns magazine: "A different stance was advocated that of having the dominant foot forward. DeBethencourt's reasoning is that conventional doctrine dictates support foot forward for two handed firing, and dominant foot forward for one handed dominant hand firing." He reasons that you shouldn't have to switch feet."

I enjoyed the course, it was worthwhile and I learned a lot.
Best Regards.