SigSauer Academy : Concealed-Carry-Intermediate class report

[twortley]

I attended SigSauer’s 2 day concealed carry class earlier this week – this is 2 very full days which I would suppose is their main concealed carry class.

Having gone through their 102 and 103 Pistol classes (both of which are 8 hrs long), this continues the “Sig” style of teaching which I find is extremely high quality, though leaning a little to the training of LEO.

Bottom line it was a very good class (4 stars out of 5) – especially day 2 where we worked through scenarios and more advanced moving, drawing & shooting. We finished with a IDPA type stage involving moving, taking cover and engaging multiple BG on moving/flip targets.

I found the “refresher” (really an instructor evaluation of us) during day #1 was almost a complete rehash of their 103 class I took back in June. I would have liked to move faster, but appreciated the refresher nonetheless.

Full class of 12, including 2 secret service and 2 LEO from NJ. Class was probably 50/50 LEO and civilian which made it interesting. They were there to do the CC instructor class which was day 3

Class focused a lot on practical fighting tactics, i.e. moving, drawing and firing from lots of different positions (squat, kneel, prone, sitting), using cover and moving. Some precision shooting up to 25yds, but mostly 3-7yds get-the-job-done type drills.

After the initial discussions on defensive carry and holster choice, most people did the class with either duty rig or full/medium sized pistols in belt holsters. On day 2 I used my IWB Crossbreed holster and got so much more out of using a real concealed carry holster. I would have liked a little more on carrying concealed - how not to print, outer clothing discussions etc.

As with all SigSauer classes, free use of any SigSauer pistol you wanted – quite a few trying out the Sig P250. I used my P229-9mm.

Finally, it was an intensive 2 days, but 75% of the drills and exercises are
done at IDPA practices I go to at Harvard. Reinforces that IDPA (less the procedural crap) is awesome training in it own right for concealed carry.

-Tim

 

[SSShooter]

Thanks for the informative review

 

[Realtor MA]

+1 Thanks for the info

 

[PeteH]

I agree with you 100%!
I took the Handgun 101 class last Sat with fantastic results. They made a simple tweek to my grip and my grouping got better with every shot. I can't wait to go back for handgun 102, and the cc classes.
I would highly recommend Sig Academy to anyone looking to improve

 

[twortley]

This class has been a bit of a breakthru for me - a lot of focus up to now has been focusing 80% on sight/trigger techniques, I felt after these 2 days intensive shooting it got hardwired in. I went to range last night and with little prep shot a 10 round 4" group at 25 yds.

Of course tomorrow it will revert to usual

 

[mbz4ever]

This is a interesting. when is the next class? how can i sign up for it?
Thanks

 

[twortley]

Visit their website www.sigsaueracademy.com. Their training coordinator is Kathleen Randolph and she's extremely helpful.

 

[mbz4ever]

Visit their website www.sigsaueracademy.com. Their training coordinator is Kathleen Randolph and she's extremely helpful.

thanks

 

[MaverickNH]

I ought get back there. Their prior director (DEA fellow whose name escapes me) and John Patterson (top-shelf military man) ran some excellent classes.

Who is instructing these days? I can learn from anyone (even if what not to do) but instructor quals are always relevant. I have a bias against active fed/state/local LEO instructors, who teach "civies", but won't teach "certain skills" to non-LEOs, so that's important info for me. If you haven't had the Folsom Roll done to you, how do you fight back?

 

[twortley]

I have nothing to compare, but my perception is that SigSauer is a little more geared to training for/with LEO than civilians (hence my initial comment about LEO leaning training), but I don't know what you would expect to see differently in a mid-level concealed carry class at, say, Gunsite or Thunder Ranch.

At some point, "fighting to survive" applies equally to CCW as LEO. Just when the bad guy runs away we have the luxury of not pursuing.

 

[jasons]

I agree with you 100%!
I took the Handgun 101 class last Sat with fantastic results. They made a simple tweek to my grip and my grouping got better with every shot. I can't wait to go back for handgun 102, and the cc classes.
I would highly recommend Sig Academy to anyone looking to improve

I agree - 101 was very good for a basic class. The instructor (former Marine, current NH LEO, master's degree in education, etc, etc.) was awesome. The class itself was bit slow and there wasn't as much live fire as I would have liked, but I for a basic MA-compliment LTC class it fit the bill well and would be non-intimidating for a new shooter. They also have female-only basic LTC classes for those of us who have wifes / sisters / mothers who would be more comfortable learning with other females.

I'm doing handgun 102 on Sep 27. The instructor said there would be lots more live fire and it should be more fun. They still have still some open slots if anyone's interested.

http://www.sigsaueracademy.com/Courses/ShowCourseDetails.aspx?cid=254&ccid=10

-Jason

(Not affiliated with Sig in any way, just a fan and happy customer.)

 

[Airwolfe1]

I just completed SIG Sauer Academy's "Concealed Carry Pistol - Intermediate" class this past weekend and I must say it was a most enjoyable experience. I have been shooting all my life, have read books and watched several DVDs about the defensive use of pistols, but this class brought a lot of that material together. Our instructor was Adam Painchaud and he did a wonderful job teaching this class. He has extensive background in military and federal law enforcement, but yet was able to relay the information to civilians in a clear, concise, and understanding manner. He never raised his voice, chided or criticized any of the students. If he was critical of anyone's performance it was never displayed to any of the other students. This class is called an intermediate class, but anyone who has taken an NRA Basic Safety Pistol course would not feel out of place. The class was limited to 10 students and was made up of 2 LEO's, one federal agent, and the other 7 were just "Regular Joes". 2 had driven from Pittsburgh, PA, 3 came from Upper State NY, 3 from MA and 2 from NH. We arrived at SIG Sauer Academy at 8:15 AM and class started at 8:30 AM. The first 2 1/2 hours consisted of classroom work which covered firearm safety, personal defense capability and considerations, and an overview of other carry positions and alternative techniques for concealed carry. We then collected our gear and headed to the indoor range. The hands-on training started initially with the fundamentals, including loading, unloading, basic manipulation of the pistol, fundamentals of defensive pistol marksmanship, stances, grip, sight alignment, trigger control, and dry fire drills which included "the wall drill", drawing/reholstering from different positions, emergency reloads, tactical reloads, and failure to feed, fire or eject procedures. These drills were all conducted using dummy rounds. We broke for lunch for one hour and when we returned we were able to start live fire training. Again we started with the basics, working on the "one hole drill" and "trigger reset drills". We quickly progressed to multiple shots from the ready position (holstered and concealed), reloading drills from 5 yards, draw and recovery drills from 7 yards and precision shooting from 12 yards. As the day progressed we continued drills which incorporated movement and drawing from different positions. I know for most this sounds pretty routine and basic, but I believe the instructor did this in order to bring the entire class up to a defined level. Once Adam Painchaud was comfortable with the abilities of the students, things started progressing much more rapidly.

Day two was considerably more active and enjoyable. When we started the second day we went straight to the range, no class work (Yahoo!) and we progressed with drawing from various seated positions. One of the drills I particularly enjoyed was when we had to draw, move off line, and shoot a steel plate through a 4 inch square opening. It proved to be a bit more challenging than just drawing and firing and made you focus on accuracy, not just pulling the trigger at close range. We also were instructed how to draw, shoot, reload, and clear "failure to fire" incidents with one hand, including dominant and non-dominant hands. Every time we reloaded our mags we had to place 2 or more dummy rounds in the mag so we never knew when we may have a "failure to fire" and have to clear the jam. Towards the end of the day Adam dimmed the lights on the range and we started shooting in lowlight conditions. We set up barriers and practiced "Pie-ing around corners", moving to cover, and shooting at moving targets. The class ended with three really exciting drills utilizing a moving target which came towards you. Surprisingly the stress created in these scenarios was enough for several students, including myself, to forget some of the things we had learned over the weekend. I have read where Massad Ayoob said "In a stressful situation, you will revert to your lowest level of training." and this drill did just that. Since I had not practiced these skills to the point where they were second nature, at that moment when the target was coming at me, I fumbled. That, in itself, was a huge learning moment.

My overall impression of this training was very positive. The instructor was very knowledgeable and the training facility was great. SIG Sauer Academy is just off NH Route 101 exit 8 and was easy to find. One thing that could have been communicated better was the fact we would be training on the indoor range the entire weekend. The class confirmation I received from SIG indicated: "Wear clothing suitable for training in any weather." Because it was 7°F when I drove to SIG Sauer Academy, I naturally had dressed warm to be outside all day. I could have left my very warm boots at home and ditched the Under Armor. Also, I understand why the curriculum spends day one almost entirely on basics and fundamentals, but when the class is labeled, "Intermediate" most would be led to believe you would be starting at a higher level.

Another point to keep in mind, this is "Concealed Carry Pistol" so bring the gun you will plan to use for everyday carry and if you plan to use "inside the waistband" holster bring that. This is an excellent environment to find out what gear works and what may be too awkward to use in a real-world situation. I know it changed some of my thoughts about how I will carry in the future. In hindsight, I should have brought my Kahr PM45 and done some training with that. I don't know if my hand would have survived all weekend, but it would have been a good workout and with all the repetition you do, you would at least be very proficient with the firearm you use. I also took advantage of renting the SIG P250 at no charge. I had wanted to try out this gun since it was introduced and this was a great opportunity to try it out more extensively. It had a smooth DAO trigger that felt good and I used it for day one but like most rentals, the sights weren't adjusted quite properly, so I switched to my own handgun the following day. SIG Sauer Academy also has a "Defensive Pistol" course which is geared more towards full size handguns and defensive use with no emphasis on the concealed carry part, so I am told. So if you like using a full size most of the time but don't usually carry it, that course may be a more appropriate. I also took advantage of the 20% discount on my next class by immediately enrolling in the "Concealed Carry Pistol - Advanced" class offered May 15 of next year, I saved $100 off that next course. I know it may seem a bit pricey for the training, but when you consider the quality of the facility and the professional level of the instructors, I think the value of the training is appropriate. So that’s my opinion.

 

[Chuck Would]

I ought get back there. Their prior director (DEA fellow whose name escapes me) back?

Banks Miller?

 

[M1911]

I ought get back there. Their prior director (DEA fellow whose name escapes me) and John Patterson (top-shelf military man) ran some excellent classes.

I took a couple classes at Sig under the previous instructor cadre (concealed carry and advanced concealed carry, for a total of 5 days). The prior director was Bank Miller. He went to Action Target: http://www.actiontarget.com/index_acd.html

I was not a big fan of Bank Miller.

John Peterson was a different animal entirely. Very low key -- no ego. An outstanding instructor. John was in Special Forces, and was called back to active duty after 9/11. Last I heard, he had retired from the Army and was a federal air marshal.

Who is instructing these days?

George Harris is running it now. He was an instructor under Bank Miller. I thought he was a decent instructor, but not as good as John Peterson. I haven't taken any classes from Sig since the cadre turned over. One of their "field instructors," Scott Reidy, was a student in a class that I took a few years back -- nice guy and a good shot.

I thought that I learned more from Randy Cain than I did from Sig. But maybe I was just farther down the road and a better student by then.

 

[VARCHAR2]

Nice review. Your day One sounds exactly like the entire 2-day Basic course I took from them in early '08.