Should An Arrest With No Conviction Prevent Me From Getting A Conceal/Carry In CT?

[Smokey4009]

Long story short I got arrested and charged with a felony for possesion of two percocet, a felony. I went through the alternative to incarceration program, did my community service etc. All said and done the charges get dropped and my record is sealed. I am wondering if my request for a permit can get denied because of that. I know if I was convicted it would but since the charges were dropped I was hoping that I would still be allowed to get the permit. Sorry if this question has been answered but i searched and didnt find anything. Thanks.

 

[GunGrey]

No clue I'm not from ct........ask a lawyer

 

[SemiAutoSam]

Were the percocet perscribed to you by a doctor and you just didnt have them in the bottle with your name on it at the time or were they not perscribed to you at all ?

Long story short I got arrested and charged with a felony for possesion of two percocet, a felony. I went through the alternative to incarceration program, did my community service etc. All said and done the charges get dropped and my record is sealed. I am wondering if my request for a permit can get denied because of that. I know if I was convicted it would but since the charges were dropped I was hoping that I would still be allowed to get the permit. Sorry if this question has been answered but i searched and didnt find anything. Thanks.

 

[el duderino]

Yea, the whole have you taken drugs recreationally question might come into play, ask a lawyer, it will be worth your money.

 

[bostonasphalt2]

"Alternative to incarceration" sounds like (to me) you were found guilty/responsible for the offense but didn't have to do jail time, but I am not a lawyer.

If it was a conviction, and was "sealed", for the purposes of firearms licensing(IIRC), that sealed record is not sealed and will be found. So, with the muddy description you gave, I would contact an attorney regarding this.

 

[Smokey4009]

Were the percocet perscribed to you by a doctor and you just didnt have them in the bottle with your name on it at the time or were they not perscribed to you at all ?

Weren't mine. Like I said, long story. haha. Officer thought they were mine.

 

[SemiAutoSam]

HA HA indeed
Disqualified / FID, unsutable / LTC.

ETA: sorry just fuqing with ya....

Weren't mine. Like I said, long story. haha. Officer thought they were mine.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

"Alternative to incarceration" sounds like (to me) you were found guilty/responsible for the offense but didn't have to do jail time, but I am not a lawyer.

It is not uncommon for states to have procedures by which they impose some soft of de-fact penalty on the defendant, but the person does not end up with a record. In MA the term is CWOF (continuance without a finding); in NY it's ACD (Adjournment contemplating dismissal). These often come with some sort of probation like requirements. CA has a procedure where the conviction for certain first time offenses can be either removed from one's record or retroactively changed from felony to misdemeanor a certain period of time after conviction. It is quite possible that the original poster received a CT deal that imposed a penalty without the burden of a conviction.

Something had to go really wrong to be subjected to a search at a level that would find a couple of pills, as that level of scrutiny extends beyond the Terry stop threshold of an officer safety weapons check.

Disqualified IE unsutable for FID or LTC.

(a) He's talking about CT, but as long as you're talking about MA:

(1) There is not "suitability" for an FID. One is either disqualified by law or eligible for "shall issue". There is no discretion involved in issuance.

(2) There are som MA PDs that will not necessarily consider a single offense with an alternate disposition as rendering one unsuitable, provided you don't play the game of don't tell and hope they won;'t find out.

 

[GSG]

Long story short I got arrested and charged with a felony for possesion of two percocet, a felony. I went through the alternative to incarceration program, did my community service etc. All said and done the charges get dropped and my record is sealed. I am wondering if my request for a permit can get denied because of that. I know if I was convicted it would but since the charges were dropped I was hoping that I would still be allowed to get the permit. Sorry if this question has been answered but i searched and didnt find anything. Thanks.

Resident or non-resident permit?

Disqualified / FID, unsutable / LTC.

In Mass. he's not DQ'ed from an FID based solely on this offense since it wasn't a conviction.

 

[Broc]

Just apply and answer all the questions, and if needed explain on a separate paper. Contacting a lawyer would be more expensive than just applying and seeing what happens.

Make sure you tell the truth.

 

[Smokey4009]

Resident Permit I guess, they call it CCW. There was no conviction, after community service and classes a judge dismisses the charges. Was in an apartment, officers entered no warrant/uninvited, two pills on counter in front of me belonged to owner. I assumed they would think they were mine so in a panic I tried to throw them behind the stove. Stupid I know, owner tried to assume responsibility but officer wasnt having it, he wanted to take me in too I suppose. Why they were there involves the owners new roommate who we didn't know was being watched or whatever was going on. I was only there to give the owner a ride to get his lights turned back on. I know everyones got a sob story about not being guilty but whatever, I just know that If I left them where they were sitting the owner would have been able to accept responsibility. Like I said STUPID on my part.

 

[xtry51]

Resident Permit I guess, they call it CCW.

There is no conceal carry permit in CT. Only a pistol permit that allows you to buy and carry however you want. If you don't have a felony conviction you will get the permit as it's shall issue. If DPS denies you then appeal it, but go through the normal channels first and you'll most likely get it. They cannot deny you in CT just because they don't like notations in your record. There's strict guidelines on what can be used to deny as well as a time limit on getting a response.

I know a few people who went thru alternative programs and had their records expunged and they now have permits.

 

[Smokey4009]

Thank you. Is there another step I have to go through to get my record expunged or is your record considered expunged when a judge dismisses your case?

 

[Len-2A Training]

Thank you. Is there another step I have to go through to get my record expunged or is your record considered expunged when a judge dismisses your case?

Dismissal of a case is NOT EXPUNGEMENT!

Expungement is "as if it never existed". Dismissed is just a notation of disposition. Worlds of difference, in legal terminology.

 

[xtry51]

Doesn't matter in CT if it's dismissed or expunged for permit application. The only way you can be denied here is for a conviction. They are legally required to grant your permit.

For future job applications and the like you probably would want to talk to a lawyer about what steps, if any, can be taken to expunge it. I'm not an expert in that realm.

 

[dcmdon]

If a case is dismissed in CT, it is as if it never happened.

I was unlawfully arrested when I was 21 yrs old. All charges were dismissed. As we were leaving the court, the judge said something to me like this:

"I'm sorry this happened to you young man. I want to make sure that you know that if at any time in your life you are asked "have you ever been arrested" you can lawfully say "NO". "

So if the charges were dismissed, you treat it like it didn't happen. PERIOD.

With that said, I'm not sure if the Alternative Incarceration program in CT, results in dismissed charges. My college roommate ran the program out of the Middletown Superior Court for a year so I got a pretty good explanation of how it works. If you complete your AI commitments, your charge is Nolle'd. If you stay out of trouble for a year, the charges go away. Notice I didn't say dismissed. I'm not sure that they are dismissed. I'm not sure what happens to them.

So the real question is, when charges are nolle'd , what happens at the end of a year? I don't know the answer to that question. But someone in the state attorney general's office should be able to answer that for you. For free. If they are actually dismissed, then you are good.

 

[dcmdon]

Doesn't matter in CT if it's dismissed or expunged for permit application. The only way you can be denied here is for a conviction. They are legally required to grant your permit.

For future job applications and the like you probably would want to talk to a lawyer about what steps, if any, can be taken to expunge it. I'm not an expert in that realm.

Per the above post, if it was truly dismissed, there is no need for expungement. You can truthfully answer NO to a question asking if you have ever been arrested for . .

 

[Smokey4009]

Another question I had was should/could I go take a Pistol Permit Class and get it out of the way before I apply for the license or does all of that happen at the same time?

 

[xtry51]

You can take it and it's good for 1 year, so you may as well do it now

 

[Rob Boudrie]

"I'm sorry this happened to you young man. I want to make sure that you know that if at any time in your life you are asked "have you ever been arrested" you can lawfully say "NO". "

So if the charges were dismissed, you treat it like it didn't happen. PERIOD.

The term of art for this is "legal fiction" - since an arrest did occur, but you are legally allowed to answer "no" and have it considered the truth under law, hence "legal fiction".

You need to be very careful in application of this concept, since (a) police agencies often have records of even allegedly purged info, and (b) in some circumstances, police agencies [most notably MA PD's when issuing LTCs] do not buy into the concept of "legal fiction" even when it's specifically allowed by law, and will treat omission of any such information as a lie.

This sound much simpler in CT than MA

 

[dcmdon]

You can take it and it's good for 1 year, so you may as well do it now

My experience is that this is not correct. First and anecdote, then the law.

My father failed to renew his CT pistol permit for a couple of years. Being a packrat, he was able to produce his NRA basic pistol course certificate from more than 10 years prior. It was accepted with a new application for a pistol permit by his home town of Branford, CT without exception.

This is as it should be since there is nothing in the statutes mentioning any kind of expiration period. The statute in CT is very clear.

CGS 29-28 No state or temporary state permit to carry a pistol or revolver shall be issued under this subsection if the applicant (1) has failed to successfully complete a course approved by the Commissioner of Public Safety in the safety and use of pistols and revolvers including, but not limited to, a safety or training course in the use of pistols and revolvers available to the public offered by a law enforcement agency, a private or public educational institution or a firearms training school, utilizing instructors certified by the National Rifle Association or the Department of Environmental Protection and a safety or training course in the use of pistols or revolvers conducted by an instructor certified by the state or the National Rifle Association, (2) has been convicted of a felony or of a violation of subsection (c) of section 21a-279

Don

 

[dcmdon]

Rob, thank you for the info on "legal fiction". But again, if a judge told me I could answer no, and based on your learned reply its a common thing, then I'd feel comfortable saying no to any question about being arrested.

If for some reason it comes up, the simple answer that the charges were dropped, means it was an incorrect (unlawful might be too strong a word) arrest.

Don

p.s. not to get too far off subject, but a friend of mine says he has a sure fire way to get out of jury duty whenever its a criminal trial. He said that he tries to work in the line "well if the man wasn't guilty, the officer wouldn't have arrested him" into his answers. Like Colt 45, it works every time. ; -)

 

[xtry51]

My experience is that this is not correct. First and anecdote, then the law.

My father failed to renew his CT pistol permit for a couple of years. Being a packrat, he was able to produce his NRA basic pistol course certificate from more than 10 years prior. It was accepted with a new application for a pistol permit by his home town of Branford, CT without exception.

This is as it should be since there is nothing in the statutes mentioning any kind of expiration period. The statute in CT is very clear.

CGS 29-28 No state or temporary state permit to carry a pistol or revolver shall be issued under this subsection if the applicant (1) has failed to successfully complete a course approved by the Commissioner of Public Safety in the safety and use of pistols and revolvers including, but not limited to, a safety or training course in the use of pistols and revolvers available to the public offered by a law enforcement agency, a private or public educational institution or a firearms training school, utilizing instructors certified by the National Rifle Association or the Department of Environmental Protection and a safety or training course in the use of pistols or revolvers conducted by an instructor certified by the state or the National Rifle Association, (2) has been convicted of a felony or of a violation of subsection (c) of section 21a-279

Don

This is true there's no statutory limit, however there have been cases in certain towns where you'll be hassled for it. I'm not saying it's right, just saying it can happen because there are some douchebag town officials here in CT, though thankfully they are far rarer here than MA.

 

[In God We Trust]

If charges are dismissed, a potential employer or landlord doing a background check will not see the charges. Any police officer running your name will see the offense you were charged with. Be careful what you say. If it were me, I would put down the charges on my application and say that they were dismissed. You should not be DQed for it, but may get asked about it by the chief.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Rob, thank you for the info on "legal fiction". But again, if a judge told me I could answer no, and based on your learned reply its a common thing, then I'd feel comfortable saying no to any question about being arrested.

Your comfort would be very misplaced (sadly) if you ever apply for a firearms license in Massachusetts. Of course, it is not necessarily accurate to assume that other states ignore the "legal fiction" concept the way MA does in regards to firearms licenses. I am also not familiar with the manner in which CT maintains, or makes available, records of arrests for charges that are dismissed and/or expunged.

 

[dcmdon]

This is true there's no statutory limit, however there have been cases in certain towns where you'll be hassled for it. I'm not saying it's right, just saying it can happen because there are some douchebag town officials here in CT, though thankfully they are far rarer here than MA.

Well, there will always be idiot LEOs running the permit process in some towns, until we get a process that cuts the towns out of it entirely.

This is being worked by CCDL now, although it is probably dead this legislative session.

New Haven requires (illegally) you to sign a waiver allowing them to pull things like credit and medical history.

Thats why one way to end run the process is to get an Eligibility Certificate first, which is done via an entirely state process.

 

[GSG]

Resident Permit I guess, they call it CCW.

I asked because the non-resident process is more streamlined than the resident processes from what I've read on here.

Doesn't matter in CT if it's dismissed or expunged for permit application. The only way you can be denied here is for a conviction. They are legally required to grant your permit.

An important distinction, they're required by policy to grant you the permit, not by law. It still has "suitability" built in, though in practice it seems to be pretty much shall issue.

With that said, I'm not sure if the Alternative Incarceration program in CT, results in dismissed charges. My college roommate ran the program out of the Middletown Superior Court for a year so I got a pretty good explanation of how it works. If you complete your AI commitments, your charge is Nolle'd. If you stay out of trouble for a year, the charges go away. Notice I didn't say dismissed. I'm not sure that they are dismissed. I'm not sure what happens to them.

Really? I've never heard of nolle prosequi being imposed after a probationary period and other court proceedings. I mean what you're describing makes sense, but I assumed (I know, I know) that was only applied before things got started to nip shaky/undesirable cases in the bud. Good to know.

Rob, thank you for the info on "legal fiction". But again, if a judge told me I could answer no, and based on your learned reply its a common thing, then I'd feel comfortable saying no to any question about being arrested.

Rob makes a good point though. What the judge told you may have been true when and where he said it, but make sure you stay up to date with your legal requirements on that in the future.

If it were me, I would put down the charges on my application and say that they were dismissed. You should not be DQed for it, but may get asked about it by the chief.

I agree in general, there's some law on it too.

http://www.cga.ct.gov/2011/pub/chap529.htm#Sec29-29.htm

Sec. 29-29. Information concerning criminal records of applicants for permits. (a) No temporary state permit for carrying any pistol or revolver shall be issued under the provisions of section 29-28 unless the applicant for such permit gives to the local authority, upon its request, full information concerning the applicant's criminal record. The local authority shall require the applicant to submit to state and national criminal history records checks. The local authority shall take a full description of such applicant and make an investigation concerning the applicant's suitability to carry any such weapons.

It seems like they could use that as an initial reason for a denial if you didn't, though from the sound of things you'd probably get it on appeal, especially if you were acting in good faith. I haven't found any caselaw on this particular CT law, so who knows though. The only criminal penalty is for false statements related to a CT gun transfer, which as far as I know don't get into your arrest history.

New Haven requires (illegally) you to sign a waiver allowing them to pull things like credit and medical history.

Credit history? Jeez.

 

[dcmdon]

GSG,

good post.

I couldn't begin to figure out how to quote all the various quotes in your post. But remember one thing. An arrest that is dismissed is not a part of a criminal record. I have no record. The case was dismissed.

Remember, innocent until proven guilty.

Part of this is just personal style. I believe that less is better. One would be within their rights in CT to not put anything.

Whether that is a better strategy is another thing. On balance it probably depends on
1) how long ago the arrest occurred
2) what the arrest was for
3) where the arrest occured
4) whether the town you are applying through tends to make things difficult for people.

Re non-resident permit - you are correct. Some CT residents must deal with local PDs who impose extra-legal requirements on pistol permit applicants. Further, they seek to delay the permitting process by doing things like requiring that finger prints are only done by them and then restricting pistol permit printing appointments to two per week.

The non-resident process is done to the letter of the law and is handled by the professional folks at special licensing in Wallingford CT. The process is a bit of a pain in the butt, but it is a consistent, documented process that follows the statute.

Don

 

[GSG]

good post.

Thanks.

I couldn't begin to figure out how to quote all the various quotes in your post. But remember one thing. An arrest that is dismissed is not a part of a criminal record. I have no record. The case was dismissed.

Remember, innocent until proven guilty.

A lot of the records involved with an arrest will hang around, and if one knows where to look, a lot can be found, especially now that so many public records are being compiled online. You want to know your legal responsibilities for disclosure of that info is what I'm saying.

 

[Smokey4009]

I thought I've heard you can go right to the staties to get your prints done and pretty much do the whole process through them. Thats probably wrong because people love to talk about things they know nothing about but this person said the state police make the whole process alot easier. Thanks to everyone for the advice on this matter. Innocent until proven guilty seems to be a good argument here but at the same time I dont know if using the Pre-trial Diversion program makes a difference.

btw - I asked the court clerk at the conclusion of my case if prospective employers could see my record and she said no. I'm sure the CCW process is more thorough than a job application.
What about transporting the weapons to property I have in VT? Federal permit?