Shotgun toe-resters...ouch!

[MisterHappy]

Exactly my point, Rob.

Just like the people that cannot see the point of carrying. It's the ability to choose that's important, not the choice per se.

 

[Keeper]

Ya. That's the ticket when you got nothing else to add.

Lets beat up the choke tube a little on that nice concrete station. They screw in to be easily replaceable. Some clubs have the rubber horse stall mats cut into squares. Maybe I should have stuffed the muzzle into the turf and filled it with dirt instead.

Sorry you missed the humor in it.

 

[mac1911]

I must say they did a good job cleaning that thing up, had to be plastic wadding and #7 1/2 shot every where?

 

[enbloc]

I must say they did a good job cleaning that thing up, had to be plastic wadding and #7 1/2 shot every where?

I was thinking the same thing. So clean I can't see any shoe material either.
I guess when you are out cold in anesthesia they could take a bottle-brush to that hole.

 

[Mark from MA]

It's been routinely done at least a million times for a hundred years with a total of one guy putting a hole in his foot.
Don't like it? Don't do it.

In other news, a guy got stuck by lightning. Nobody should ever go outside again.

Not the only one....my 80 year old friend at my club has no big toe.....yup.....that's why.

I'll also agree with the muzzle sweeping. I taught a recent womens class with an older guy who is a good instructor, but for safety, he's got plenty of flaws. Like when he demonstrates how to shoot a target then muzzle sweeps the whole group after.

I was doing skeet but we had a volunteer group from another club, all experienced older guys, train the women at trap. They set up the table of guns so that when the participants walked into the range area about 15 muzzles were pointed right at them.
Awesome.

The same group of guys, were also very assuming that new people have shot a gun and know how guns work. These guys were like "grab that gun, lets go shoot" to women that some of have probably never seen a gun in their life. No safety talks, no demos on how the actions work...nothing.

I'm glad I was just doing the skeet that day......I was able to not do everything that was being done wrong at the trap side of things.

 

[Chevy 2 65]

Open break action? Not an issue. Anything else? Not smart.

Anything else is not smart. Don't get in the habit of doing stupid things and stupid things wouldn't happen.

Every gun is always loaded and should be treat as such. Flame on

 

[Sweeney]

So, every gun is always loaded, never point said gun at anything you don't want to destroy...muzzle swept!!!

Based on these gun safety rules should I assume that you safety nannies store your fire arms in a pit in the middle of a field, never transport in your car (don't want a hole in your trunk), never check the bore, dry fire, etc?

I get it, don't be stupid, but I do know for a fact that 'most' of my guns ARE unloaded and which ones are not. I know that the ones that are unloaded are safe to have the muzzle peered into.

 

[tuna]

Meh, accidents happen. Safety rules are more guidelines than commandments.



This attitude gives me a lot more room at ranges. Lol

 

[Gaffer]

I dare say that the safety record of skeet and trap shooters is considerably better than the average gun owner. Most such competitive shooters have a mindset that prevents ever pointing a loaded gun at anyone. Most such shotguns are only loaded when the shooter is on the pad and pointing toward the target area. It's a matter of proper safety protocol for the game involved. They are no more fudds than the average gun owner and to call them that shows lack of knowledge and civility.

 

[Chevy 2 65]

So, every gun is always loaded, never point said gun at anything you don't want to destroy...muzzle swept!!!

Based on these gun safety rules should I assume that you safety nannies store your fire arms in a pit in the middle of a field, never transport in your car (don't want a hole in your trunk), never check the bore, dry fire, etc?

I get it, don't be stupid, but I do know for a fact that 'most' of my guns ARE unloaded and which ones are not. I know that the ones that are unloaded are safe to have the muzzle peered into.

Don't overreact.

 

[Chevy 2 65]

The nice thing about this practice is that the person engaging in it is choosing his own risk/benefit profile, not making that choice for those around him.

 

[Bonesinium]

Don't overreact.

Saying you shouldn’t rest an open break action that you can see directly into the chamber nor can it fire while open on your toe because you need to treat it as if it’s loaded is the overreaction. He was just pointing out the ridiculousness of your logic.

 

[Chevy 2 65]

Saying you shouldn’t rest an open break action that you can see directly into the chamber nor can it fire while open on your toe because you need to treat it as if it’s loaded is the overreaction. He was just pointing out the ridiculousness of your logic.

 

[AntiHippie]

Saying you shouldn’t rest an open break action that you can see directly into the chamber nor can it fire while open on your toe because you need to treat it as if it’s loaded is the overreaction. He was just pointing out the ridiculousness of your logic.

There we go, we finally got to a post Bonesinium and I agree on. I've shot trap with some old duffers* who all rested their barrels on their toes - on an open break-action gun. Would I do it with my old Ithaca 37, or any pump or autoloader? Shit no! But would I rest an unquestionably empty steel pipe on my foot? Maybe. I'm getting old enough I'm almost where I'd appreciate the comfort of resting it somewhere. Only thing that would stop me now is my shotgun is NOT a break action, so it would be dumb, and my boots would show soot rings and they were not cheap boots.

*-I won't call them Fudds because despite being barely in CA, these were some of the kindest, easygoing old guys I've ever met. When I started shooting trap there just for something to do after church on Sundays, with my shitty old Ithaca, they were all very welcoming, eager to help me learn the sport, all offered to let me try shooting their guns that were probably worth more than my truck, and when I went to pay for a 2 year membership to that club on my way out I found out those guys I was shooting with already covered it. No hate for black rifles, no "I support 2A BUT" - but a few jokes about how they're for young guys that can still move around quick "but they'll convert us one by one, with barbecue and cold beer instead of bullshit laws". Their rationale for shooting trap vs. other shooting sports was it had all the appearance of a civilized gentleman's game, so nobody's wives thought twice about them going down there after church on Sundays, shooting guns for a few hours, then drinking beer and eating grilled red meat and telling grossly inappropriate jokes for another hour or two. Pretty hard to refute the wisdom there.

 

[Sweeney]

Don't overreact.

Oh, I never overreact. All reactions are properly gauged to the presented scenarios. Of course, an 'overreaction', in my mind is quite subjective.

 

[robjax]

I am probably the worst trap shooter that ever existed. But I was able to compete on a team for a few years way back when. Aside from the first time I took the line in a competition and I loaded 5 rounds into my Mosberg 500 and received several looks and a few comments I never had my gun loaded until it was time to shoot. I still get razzed at the club when some of the old team is around...lol. Never saw anyone rest a gun on their toe.

 

[Della Street]

I’ll admit that I have done this shooting trap, although the shotgun wasn’t loaded. Bad habit to get into.

 

[PatMcD]

The other way claybird shooters rest their shotguns is with the action open (break-action), resting over their shoulders, muzzle forward. Obviously, that metal pipe, at some point, is going to cross over some part of another shooter's anatomy.

So that's not safe either?

 

[Asaltweapon]

Who here has ever seen a closed action on the line? Who here loads their gun while waiting for his/her turn on the line?

 

[houlie]

Real men hold their shotgun in their hands while shooting trap. They do not rest their gun on the ground or on their foot between shots.

I rest mine on a pad near my foot between shots.....all 1000 of them

 

[Reptile]

Looks like there is a contraption that encourages this sort of behavior.

A leather fob that attaches to your boot laces.

You put the barrel on it which is right over your foot.

How can that company not be sued for encouraging such retardation?

 

[Bonesinium]

You support suing a company for that because one moron (who wasn’t even using their product) shoots a hole in their foot?

That’s retardation.

 

[mac1911]

Who here has ever seen a closed action on the line? Who here loads their gun while waiting for his/her turn on the line?

Well trap per "rules" no live ammo is supposed to be in your shotgun unless on the line actions are supposed to be open until your turn to shoot . All shells live or spent are supposed to be removed before moving position or leaving the line.

Although not a rule in the rule book resting the muzzle is discouraged.

 

[Asaltweapon]

Well trap per "rules" no live ammo is supposed to be in your shotgun unless on the line actions are supposed to be open until your turn to shoot . All shells live or spent are supposed to be removed before moving position or leaving the line.

Although not a rule in the rule book resting the muzzle is discouraged.

I met some pretty good trap gunners and never once heard resting the muzzle was discouraged. Maybe the clubs were not as FUDD as some might think. LOL.
Now leaving a mess on the ground....

 

[71montess]

Not the only one....my 80 year old friend at my club has no big toe.....yup.....that's why.

I'll also agree with the muzzle sweeping. I taught a recent womens class with an older guy who is a good instructor, but for safety, he's got plenty of flaws. Like when he demonstrates how to shoot a target then muzzle sweeps the whole group after.

I was doing skeet but we had a volunteer group from another club, all experienced older guys, train the women at trap. They set up the table of guns so that when the participants walked into the range area about 15 muzzles were pointed right at them.
Awesome.

The same group of guys, were also very assuming that new people have shot a gun and know how guns work. These guys were like "grab that gun, lets go shoot" to women that some of have probably never seen a gun in their life. No safety talks, no demos on how the actions work...nothing.

I'm glad I was just doing the skeet that day......I was able to not do everything that was being done wrong at the trap side of things.

When some say fudds are dangerously unsafe it’s like arguing who’s more racist, blacks or whites. There can be unsafe shooters on either side. Good story though, I always treat a person I’m showing how to shoot as if they have never touched a gun unless the show me their gun safety.

 

[mac1911]

I met some pretty good trap gunners and never once heard resting the muzzle was discouraged. Maybe the clubs were not as FUDD as some might think. LOL.
Now leaving a mess on the ground....

ATA rule Section J 18 .
The ATA discourages it but its not against any safetysafety rule. Local clubs may not say much and most are not really worried about ATA rules.
Im not a huge fan of having people behind me when shooting handicap.

 

[Mark from MA]

When some say fudds are dangerously unsafe it’s like arguing who’s more racist, blacks or whites. There can be unsafe shooters on either side. Good story though, I always treat a person I’m showing how to shoot as if they have never touched a gun unless the show me their gun safety.

I will say, that before this event, there was no initial meeting on expectations of the teaching, students, etc. That was more a failure of the program than the teachers. Its real tough to blame people that are volunteer teachers if you don't give them some basic outline of expectations. Everyone has different ideas of what is right and wrong. Especially old gun guys......and no one is perfect...there's a lot of valuable experience, just some bad habits need to be addressed, and expectations clarified. This is all best brought up in a meeting before hand which didn't happen.

That said, I'm working on a safety outline for teaching trap and skeet for that program right now. So at least a written heads up can be shared with the group prior to teaching the event. I.E, no tables of muzzles pointed at students, go over firearms before handing to the students, no muzzle sweeping, etc, etc. Something that can be sent to all teaching volunteers to at least read over and understand.

 

[whacko]

Who here has ever seen a closed action on the line? Who here loads their gun while waiting for his/her turn on the line?

I've seen it.....but the trap coordinator / range officer quickly corrects the shooter.

Had a couple trap rookies at the club last Saturday......they were not new to shotguns (chatted with them before we shot the first round and they are avid hunters).....just trap. Initial correction I made was when one of them walked to the line muzzle pointed right at my son's back. I just said "muzzles at the sky gentlemen". I was on station 4 and one of them was on 5......they we're calling the clays from the low ready.......kid was left handed and I could clearly see his finger on the trigger at the low ready. He would load his shell in the chamber with the gun pointed up about 45 degrees......finger on trigger.....then drop the muzzle and "bounce" the muzzle up and down a couple times and call pull. His finger would be on the trigger through the whole "routine". I called him on it politely and the RO came out to have a quick chat with them. Some folks can be just plain awful at safety.

 

[Asaltweapon]

I've seen it.....but the trap coordinator / range officer quickly corrects the shooter.

Had a couple trap rookies at the club last Saturday......they were not new to shotguns (chatted with them before we shot the first round and they are avid hunters).....just trap. Initial correction I made was when one of them walked to the line muzzle pointed right at my son's back. I just said "muzzles at the sky gentlemen". I was on station 4 and one of them was on 5......they we're calling the clays from the low ready.......kid was left handed and I could clearly see his finger on the trigger at the low ready. He would load his shell in the chamber with the gun pointed up about 45 degrees......finger on trigger.....then drop the muzzle and "bounce" the muzzle up and down a couple times and call pull. His finger would be on the trigger through the whole "routine". I called him on it politely and the RO came out to have a quick chat with them. Some folks can be just plain awful at safety.

I must have been lucky then in my 10 or so years of trap.
I saw sweeping plenty of times but always with empty guns while people were coming to the line or returning to the rack. Believe me I was always watching out for my safety but wasn't paranoid. I'd check my chamber several times out of habit. With people 360 degrees around you near the gun rack it can be tough not to sweep somebody.
I never saw anyone close an action until they were ready to call for the bird and nobody loaded after their 5th shot while waiting to change stations.

I've never been a member of a club that required RO's so self policing is second nature.

 

[whacko]

I must have been lucky then in my 10 or so years of trap.
I saw sweeping plenty of times but always with empty guns while people were coming to the line or returning to the rack. Believe me I was always watching out for my safety but wasn't paranoid. I'd check my chamber several times out of habit. With people 360 degrees around you near the gun rack it can be tough not to sweep somebody.
I never saw anyone close an action until they were ready to call for the bird and nobody loaded after their 5th shot while waiting to change stations.

I've never been a member of a club that required RO's so self policing is second nature.

Not sweeping someone when there are people 360 degrees around the rack IS easy. Muzzle up.