Shop local, shop small.

[Acme.Armament]

Frankly I can't find the NH Bass Pro anyway (there are no signs that I could see on 28). Makes it easier to go to Rileys or Shooters if I am out that way.

BP has 2 billboards on DW Trnpk before you get to Manch.

Just off exit 10 off 93. I only go to the big box stores (Bass Pro and Walmart) for ammo.

^ and that right there is half the problem.

Is that the one on 125 in Plaistow ???

I remember shopping there when the previous owner ran it.
That place was cram-packed with all kinds goodies.
When the new owner took over, the selection dwindled down to almost nothing.
I stopped in there last year and it was a mere shadow of what it once was.
It's hard to keep your doors open when you don't have anything in stock worth buying.

Zappa, yes on Dave's in Plaistow.

FS at this point is anything but a "small" business. The shop might be small in dimensions but volume of people going in and out of that store is crazy.

-Mike

Exactly Mike. FS, SO, Rileys are all part of one of the buyers groups. Being in a BG requires a $1,000,000 buy in.

 

[not new guy]

Most of the shops like that the owners have secondary Jobs, there may not be enough business to go full time. especially if the owner and 1 or 2 other people are only ones behind the counter.

That sounds like their issue. If you're going to get into a business you have to be committed to it. And to the buying power topic, you need startup money. Same with most retail businesses.

 

[Kaldone]

That sounds like their issue. If you're going to get into a business you have to be committed to it. And to the buying power topic, you need startup money. Same with most retail businesses.

Pretty sure they are committed, and as per Adams comment above, not everyone in the business can afford 1M$ buy ins. And the small guys aren't the ones usually worried the Mass AG will come after them for selling ammo to a mass resident without an LTC who is picking up ammo to go shooting with his buddies in NH (No offense to Jim at MFLR).

In my opinion (which is worth what you all pay for it, minus the electric costs of running your PC, Phone, Tablet etc..) the small guys also seem to be the ones who notice you when you walk in and engage you in conversation. I've never been into Acme or Daves and been completely ignored. Even if they are working on something behind the counter or or engaging another customer they will at least wave or say hi, acknowledging my presence. And at Acme, well Dad was normally the first one to greet me, but Nicole and/or Adam weren't far behind.

 

[Chet0729]

I have been to many shops and the ones I shop at are the ones that make me feel welcome when I go there. In my area, Pullman, H-S Trading, Waynes and the Gun Parlor are perfect examples of this. Then there is the other side of the coin with shops like The Gun Room, Archery and arms to name a couple. I really don't understand how these places stay in business.
Waynes. Waynes is open nights when most of the others are closed, catering to the working man.
Four seasons has a lot of inventory, the customer service is hit or miss. I think this is due to how busy they are.

 

[n1bsbri]

Pretty sure they are committed, and as per Adams comment above, not everyone in the business can afford 1M$ buy ins. And the small guys aren't the ones usually worried the Mass AG will come after them for selling ammo to a mass resident without an LTC who is picking up ammo to go shooting with his buddies in NH (No offense to Jim at MFLR).

In my opinion (which is worth what you all pay for it, minus the electric costs of running your PC, Phone, Tablet etc..) the small guys also seem to be the ones who notice you when you walk in and engage you in conversation. I've never been into Acme or Daves and been completely ignored. Even if they are working on something behind the counter or or engaging another customer they will at least wave or say hi, acknowledging my presence. And at Acme, well Dad was normally the first one to greet me, but Nicole and/or Adam weren't far behind.

I agree with you on the idea that it's hard for a small shop to maintain good hours. But in the end analysis, there's a reason that some customers prefer big box stores. No doubt about it, the convenience factor plays into it.

 

[DispositionMatrix]

REMEMBER to shop at your local stores as often as possible! If you don't, soon they'll be gone and you will only have the big box stores left to shop at. A 3rd gun shop in NH is closing this week. And a 4th will be closed by the end of next week.

Gungouger lists only three FFLs in Windham:

• P . A ' S GUNS
  
• Second Amendment Arms LLC
  
• Al's Dart Outlet

 

[mclina]

There have been plenty of times that I have bought stuff from a small shop that I didn't need at the time, and paid a hefty premium for it, jusitfying the purchase with the thought that I was helping to keep them in business so that they would be there when I really needed something.

You know what, every time that I have gone back looking for something specific, that I could use right away, they didn't have it.

There are absolutely some great small shops that I love to do business with. B&K is at the top of that list. But there are several shops that I have been in repeatedly, who have acted like they were doing me a favor by selling overpriced targets and Hoppe's #9, but never had anything I needed when I needed it.

I think a good shop will retain business because they are a good shop.

 

[Mr Weebles]

Once you get to know Adam, Nicole, and Dad.

I'd put Dad at the top of that list.

 

[soloman02]

I don't have any experience with the first two proprietors who began the thread.

Having said that, I see these signs on all the local booksellers as the slowly fade out of existence. Pleading won't make it happen when prices are not a mere 4% off but 40% higher than online or bigger stores. And rudeness? Unbelievable at some stores I've been in.

To business owners all: customers are not the enemy to be treated as a necessary evil. If you can't compete with the bigger folks on price, what can you compete on? Education, proper selection processes, wisdom. You can't get any of those from Amazon comments and review sections. Know your audience and the growing segments, like women. Put together your favorite pistols from women of different sizes and shapes to give women an idea what might fit them best. Show on a dummy the different concealed carry options so they can see they can carry and still look sexy. Offer women (or all) one free cleaning a month or a free safety checkup /mo or most anything else to get them into your store. Apple loses money on their One-to-One program in order to get someone into their store on a regular basis where they are surrounded with stuff to buy. Hire female staff who won't scoff at women shooters. Bring in the local martial arts dojo owner for a ½ hour self defense course. Dojo owner wins potential new clients, you get more people buying stuff they see around them. Bring in a guest speaker like a lawyer to answer questions about local laws. Bring in someone from the community to hold discussions on setting up neighborhood watch. Or food storage. Have someone a "Tupperware" party to show everyone a newly introduced gun, or better yet, gather the ladies and talk about "girl guns" ala Mr. And Mrs. Smith. Make your shop a gathering place where you facilitate knowledge, community, relationships.

Find something simple and inexpensive to give away with every repair you do or sale of a gun. Research I've done in real life shows that people who are surprised when they receive something unexpected become truly loyal.

Find a way to bring some of your better customers in for a BBQ or other special event open only to those who've bought 4 guns from you this year. Ask them questions about what products they are buying online, what services they'd like to see, or programs you can offer. Ask people for referrals and give them a box of ammo when their referral brings in a referral card with their name on it and actually buys something. Hold a special shoot for the youth or spouses of your better customers. Do a writeup of your better customers and those who send you business and put it up on your website. And for crap sake, hire someone to put up a decent website on Wordpress for you so you can add stuff to it on your own.

Whatever you do, don't play the buy local card. Differentiate yourselves and give customers a reason to do so.

Acme and Cassadilla, if you want to talk further about any of these ideas in happy to help.

Recently Acme did do that. They had a day with Bacon out the wazoo. I couldn't make it that day but I heard it was a good time.

 

[ChevyGuy91]

Recently Acme did do that. They had a day with Bacon out the wazoo. I couldn't make it that day but I heard it was a good time.

Bacon days are always a good time.

 

[Acme.Armament]

Recently Acme did do that. They had a day with Bacon out the wazoo. I couldn't make it that day but I heard it was a good time.

Bacon days are always a good time.

Yep. Normally give away 8+ pounds of Bacon.

 

[seanc]

I don't have any experience with the first two proprietors who began the thread.

Having said that, I see these signs on all the local booksellers as the slowly fade out of existence. Pleading won't make it happen when prices are not a mere 4% off but 40% higher than online or bigger stores. And rudeness? Unbelievable at some stores I've been in.

To business owners all: customers are not the enemy to be treated as a necessary evil. If you can't compete with the bigger folks on price, what can you compete on? Education, proper selection processes, wisdom. You can't get any of those from Amazon comments and review sections. Know your audience and the growing segments, like women. Put together your favorite pistols from women of different sizes and shapes to give women an idea what might fit them best. Show on a dummy the different concealed carry options so they can see they can carry and still look sexy. Offer women (or all) one free cleaning a month or a free safety checkup /mo or most anything else to get them into your store. Apple loses money on their One-to-One program in order to get someone into their store on a regular basis where they are surrounded with stuff to buy. Hire female staff who won't scoff at women shooters. Bring in the local martial arts dojo owner for a ½ hour self defense course. Dojo owner wins potential new clients, you get more people buying stuff they see around them. Bring in a guest speaker like a lawyer to answer questions about local laws. Bring in someone from the community to hold discussions on setting up neighborhood watch. Or food storage. Have someone a "Tupperware" party to show everyone a newly introduced gun, or better yet, gather the ladies and talk about "girl guns" ala Mr. And Mrs. Smith. Make your shop a gathering place where you facilitate knowledge, community, relationships.

Find something simple and inexpensive to give away with every repair you do or sale of a gun. Research I've done in real life shows that people who are surprised when they receive something unexpected become truly loyal.

Find a way to bring some of your better customers in for a BBQ or other special event open only to those who've bought 4 guns from you this year. Ask them questions about what products they are buying online, what services they'd like to see, or programs you can offer. Ask people for referrals and give them a box of ammo when their referral brings in a referral card with their name on it and actually buys something. Hold a special shoot for the youth or spouses of your better customers. Do a writeup of your better customers and those who send you business and put it up on your website. And for crap sake, hire someone to put up a decent website on Wordpress for you so you can add stuff to it on your own.

Whatever you do, don't play the buy local card. Differentiate yourselves and give customers a reason to do so.

Acme and Cassadilla, if you want to talk further about any of these ideas in happy to help.

So.. Just so I understand this business model..

You want to give stuff away with every purchase.

"Find something simple and inexpensive to give away with every repair you do or sale of a gun. Research I've done in real life shows that people who are surprised when they receive something unexpected become truly loyal."

You want to offer free services:

" Offer women (or all) one free cleaning a month or a free safety checkup /mo or most anything else to get them into your store"

You want to offer free events:

"Find a way to bring some of your better customers in for a BBQ or other special event open only to those who've bought 4 guns from you this year. Ask them questions about what products they are buying online, what services they'd like to see, or programs you can offer"

You want to give away free stuff for referrals:

" Ask people for referrals and give them a box of ammo when their referral brings in a referral card with their name on it and actually buys something."

you want to keep the store open and staff it for non revenue events including (potentially) paying a speaker:

" Bring in the local martial arts dojo owner for a ½ hour self defense course. Dojo owner wins potential new clients, you get more people buying stuff they see around them. Bring in a guest speaker like a lawyer to answer questions about local laws. Bring in someone from the community to hold discussions on setting up neighborhood watch."

Have someone a "Tupperware" party to show everyone a newly introduced gun, or better yet, gather the ladies and talk about "girl guns" ala Mr. And Mrs. Smith. Make your shop a gathering place where you facilitate knowledge, community, relationships.

And you want to do this all with prices competitive with mail order:

" Pleading won't make it happen when prices are not a mere 4% off but 40% higher than online or bigger stores."

How are you going to do all of these "free" give aways, "free" services, staffing, events, guest lecturers, etc. without adding to the price of your goods sold? as the owner, nothing is free it all comes out of your pocket.

Yes, I am sure the store will be extremely popular. As a place to hang out and collect free stuff. However, if your prices are not as good as the place next door or on line they will happily take the free stuff, use your staff to receive info and recommendations and buy elsewhere.

"Customers" will happily hang out collect the free stuff, talk to their friends and scour the internet to save $5 on their next purchase (of something they could have purchased at your shop) while they are waiting for their free cleaning to be completed..

"oh and by the way, could you speed that free cleaning up, I got to be some place in 10 minutes"..

 

[Heath]

I support all the local stores that support me back with down to earth pricing.

This! Some shops get it, some just don't and I can't see supporting a shop that's not even trying to price competitively. It's a shame when I am driving by the shop 10 minutes from my house or bypassing the one that is ON my weekly travel path to go buy guns and ammo from someone else 30-45 minutes away. If they were even close to the same price I would frequent the locals just for pure convenience.

I've had an eye out for a GP100 lately so I have been checking prices while I'm out buying ammo, Four Seasons and Pullman Arms had them new for $580. Old Mill in Leominster wanted $700 for the same gun, IDC in Clinton wanted $670. So not only will I not spend my money at the latter two, I am also directing business away from them when talking to people, because I'm telling people about the better price and experience I had at the better shops.

So while it sucks to hear about gun shops closing, I don't think its the box stores running them out of business so much as them failing to compete. In this day and age when I can check gun and ammo prices on my phone in mere second to compare to whats on the shelf, its not hard to make the decision to shop elsewhere.

One last comment for small business owners, look up this thing called the internet, then figure out how to use it to your advantage. I am 10x more likely to shop at a store when I can pull up their website and see what they have in stock for new and used guns and check prices. Unless someone specifically tells me they saw a gun for a great price at a store, chances are I won't even bother calling to see what they have in stock or check prices unless I happen to be there to buy something else. Of course, if you plan to gouge your customers, this will backfire since they can see that your pricing sucks.

 

[Chevy 2 65]

REMEMBER to shop at your local stores as often as possible! If you don't, soon they'll be gone and you will only have the big box stores left to shop at. A 3rd gun shop in NH is closing this week. And a 4th will be closed by the end of next week.

Always do. don't like the big box stores.

 

[drgrant]

I love big box stores.

Most local shops are full retard on ammo.

This is about the only thing I would buy from a box store. I would never buy a gun from one. The problem is right now the mid level distributors are porking the smaller FFLs and their dealer cost is probably similar to what people pay at WalMart.

As the market gets less retarded, however, I probably won't have to set foot in a walmart for awhile. Back before all this sandy hookmaster garbage I bought almost 100% of my ammo from smaller dealers, most are willing to negotiate a bit if you want quantity and not just a few boxes. It also helps if you build a rapport with store owners, etc. I used to buy 00 Buck from one of my dealers for far less than I could get it from Walmart or anywhere else. He would buy cases of the stuff and he'd cut me a really good break if I bought a case or two at a time. The problem right now is it is difficult to negotiate with LGSes on ammo when the mid levels are only sending them a case of ammo here and there in 9mm, .380, or some other hard to get caliber; and worse yet, the pricing even at the dealer end is pretty terrible.

-Mike

 

[drgrant]

That sounds like their issue. If you're going to get into a business you have to be committed to it. And to the buying power topic, you need startup money. Same with most retail businesses.

It isn't just money, either, unless you got enough to get into a BG. Part of the problem is mid level distributors treat new FFLs like shit, so there are a few years of "meh" treatment, you get a less senior sales rep who has shittier allocations of product to dole out to his/her customers. It's a tough business to start up in.

-Mike

 

[Acme.Armament]

The problem right now is it is difficult to negotiate with LGSes on ammo when the mid levels are only sending them a case of ammo here and there in 9mm, .380, or some other hard to get caliber; and worse yet, the pricing even at the dealer end is pretty terrible.

-Mike

Part of the problem is that some distributors are still not seeing some ammo. We had one distributor tell us last week that they haven't seen any 9MM ball ammo since last Summer. As you said, what the distributors receive, get's divide between the sales reps who then divide by the # of shops and start making calls. Once last Novemeber I received a call to be told they had 5 - 50 round boxes of 22 to sell me.

 

[Wrench75]

After 25 years I know what shops to avoid.

Ahem, Richie's, ahem...

And that only took 25 seconds to figure out...

Support the ones that deserve to be supported. Not all do...

 

[Synyster]

Try to support local as much as possible, but it's hard to when even with the transfer fee you can shop online and its almost still 40% cheaper.

 

[FalArAk]

Trying to wrap my brain around the concept that it is somehow the customers responsibility to keep a shop open.

Is it because its a gunshop is the reason this whole wacky idea is even entertained here ?

Replace LGS with a corner store asking you to buy groceries at inflated prices so they dont have to compete with larger stores...Everybody cool with that ?

If it wasnt for big box stores and online shopping, these beloved gunshops would be charging astronomical prices..

Competition is a great thing.

 

[Bt74]

Blackwater, Legends, Dave's and one in Windham I don't recall the name of.

Dave's in Plaistow cornholed me bigtime on a transfer, won't set foot in there(when Dave owned it, I spent quite a bit there), I hope 2nd Am in Windham isn't going under..every time I've stopped by, they've been busy. Maybe Great Northern in Windham is the one going under, no surprise. Stopped by there 30 years ago, while visiting from Ca, guy was a rude douche then, nothing has changed. The only thing I have bought from them over the years I've lived here (28) is shiners...and this year they dropped ALL their fishing supplies. Oh.. the sign on the door "NO LOADED GUNS" is a FINE welcome mat!

 

[Dadstoys]

I always try to support small stores when I can.
But after 5 trips and burning up gas to, "No ammo, no powder, no bullets", or "It's your lucky day we got 1 brick of federal .22 for $ 65 dollars."
It ain't easy.
And I know it's not the shops fault this stuff it hard to find.
It's just wasting time after a while chasing your tail.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

If it wasnt for big box stores and online shopping, these beloved gunshops would be charging astronomical prices..

Competition is a great thing.

Bingo.

Stores survive by meeting the needs of the customer; not explaining to the customer why (s)he has to meet the needs of the store. Visit Four Seasons, and they will show you what they have to sell and the price, but you'll never hear a line about how the owner "has to charge you more because he needs the money".

Guns have a built in small shop advantage - customers can't mail order them without a licensed shop as the middleman; bix box stores tend to have have small selection; and for some reason there has been no Walmartization of the pricing of mainstream guns (think Sigs, Glocks, AR15, S&Ws, etc.). In fact, Bass Pro was being so badly beaten by the prices the independents were charging that they added "excluding firearms" to their price matching policy'

The best example was a small shop (now defunct) where a friend said "I'll pay $50 over the Four Seasons price but not $100". The answer was "No deal, I need the margin, shops that sell to cheap are whoring the business". I asked he bought only from distributors that charged a far markup and did not hurt other distributors with low prices, and the clerk told me "that's different".

 

[rutilate]

So.. Just so I understand this business model..

You want to give stuff away with every purchase.
You want to offer free services:
You want to offer free events:
You want to give away free stuff for referrals:
you want to keep the store open and staff it for non revenue events including (potentially) paying a speaker:
And you want to do this all with prices competitive with mail order:

How are you going to do all of these "free" give aways, "free" services, staffing, events, guest lecturers, etc. without adding to the price of your goods sold? as the owner, nothing is free it all comes out of your pocket.

Yes, I am sure the store will be extremely popular. As a place to hang out and collect free stuff. However, if your prices are not as good as the place next door or on line they will happily take the free stuff, use your staff to receive info and recommendations and buy elsewhere.

"Customers" will happily hang out collect the free stuff, talk to their friends and scour the internet to save $5 on their next purchase (of something they could have purchased at your shop) while they are waiting for their free cleaning to be completed..

Perhaps my post was overly obtuse. Allow me to simplify.

You make money when customers come into your store and buy something, right? How do you get them to buy? Location, price, selection. But what if you don't have the budget for premium location? Or can't compete with Wal-mart pricing? Or can't afford either the inventory carrying costs or the retail space to carry every possible gun/part/screw? Local gun stores cannot compete on location, price, or selection. This is no longer Field of Dreams. Amazon will beat the pants off of every local retailer-in two days. Other online retailers will beat the pants off every local gun store, and will only take a week to do so.

So how do you get people to buy? You have to give them a reason to come into your store, and a reason to buy from you NOW instead of buying online. And how do you get them to come back? And how do you get them to bring in their friends?

Apple is a premium brand and store. They charge exorbitant prices for their products. Every one of the accessories in their store is cheaper on Amazon. Have you ever seen an empty Apple store? They are mobbed even at 7:30 am, before they open, with people coming in for training sessions. Apple has figured out how to get people into their store. When they come into their store, they buy. And they tell others about it. And they bring in their friends. Who buy more.

Every retail store needs to have as their primary goal driving traffic and especially repeat traffic. And referral traffic. Some big retailers do so using big sales or customer appreciation events. Local gun stores have to be more creative. How else do you suggest getting repeat, referral traffic?

Another way to look at this is by asking the question: What is a customer worth? If you are short-sighted, they are worth whatever the profit margin on the one item they bought before walking out to never return. If that is the only profit you calculate, you'll never make money by doing as I suggested previously, because you'll never effectively invest in your marketing. Or a customer could be worth the total profit margin of every item they buy each year for the next four years, and the total profit margin of the three to seven other customers they bring in. Now it makes sense to throw in a package of snap caps or a bore snake or ear plugs to make a customer feel valued when they come in for service. Or to stay open a little bit longer and invite LenS or DrGrant in to give a presentation on gun laws to people who are afraid to carry for fear they'll get jammed up. Now you have a LOT of profit margin to play with. And it doesn't have to be expensive.

Customers don't owe you anything. They reward you for meeting their needs and satisfying their wants in a better manner than someone else.

 

[rutilate]

Stores survive by meeting the needs of the customer; not explaining to the customer why (s)he has to meet the needs of the store.
Guns have a built in small shop advantage - customers can't mail order them without a licensed shop as the middleman;

Great point. They are propped up by the local laws.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Great point. They are propped up by the local laws.

And federal.

You think it's tough running a gun shop and meeting margin - try opening a high end camera store and selling products that your customers can buy as cheaply as you can via the NYC electronics market. The real margin is in items where the distribution is strictly controlled, and you can't even get near a wholesale price list without a storefront (think bicycles or name brand jeans).

 

[Quiet]

Perhaps my post was overly obtuse. Allow me to simplify.

You make money when customers come into your store and buy something, right? How do you get them to buy? Location, price, selection. But what if you don't have the budget for premium location? Or can't compete with Wal-mart pricing? Or can't afford either the inventory carrying costs or the retail space to carry every possible gun/part/screw? Local gun stores cannot compete on location, price, or selection. This is no longer Field of Dreams. Amazon will beat the pants off of every local retailer-in two days. Other online retailers will beat the pants off every local gun store, and will only take a week to do so.

So how do you get people to buy? You have to give them a reason to come into your store, and a reason to buy from you NOW instead of buying online. And how do you get them to come back? And how do you get them to bring in their friends?

Apple is a premium brand and store. They charge exorbitant prices for their products. Every one of the accessories in their store is cheaper on Amazon. Have you ever seen an empty Apple store? They are mobbed even at 7:30 am, before they open, with people coming in for training sessions. Apple has figured out how to get people into their store. When they come into their store, they buy. And they tell others about it. And they bring in their friends. Who buy more.

Every retail store needs to have as their primary goal driving traffic and especially repeat traffic. And referral traffic. Some big retailers do so using big sales or customer appreciation events. Local gun stores have to be more creative. How else do you suggest getting repeat, referral traffic?

Another way to look at this is by asking the question: What is a customer worth? If you are short-sighted, they are worth whatever the profit margin on the one item they bought before walking out to never return. If that is the only profit you calculate, you'll never make money by doing as I suggested previously, because you'll never effectively invest in your marketing. Or a customer could be worth the total profit margin of every item they buy each year for the next four years, and the total profit margin of the three to seven other customers they bring in. Now it makes sense to throw in a package of snap caps or a bore snake or ear plugs to make a customer feel valued when they come in for service. Or to stay open a little bit longer and invite LenS or DrGrant in to give a presentation on gun laws to people who are afraid to carry for fear they'll get jammed up. Now you have a LOT of profit margin to play with. And it doesn't have to be expensive.

Customers don't owe you anything. They reward you for meeting their needs and satisfying their wants in a better manner than someone else.

Can I ask you what is your background in retail marketing?

 

[rutilate]

Can I ask you what is your background in retail marketing?

MBA in marketing; Two decades experience in helping Fortune 500 companies engage customers to collaborate with and advocate for the company to dramatically grow revenue. You?

 

[CoastieRon]

MBA in marketing; Two decades experience in helping Fortune 500 companies engage customers to collaborate with and advocate for the company to dramatically grow revenue. You?

Which companies?

 

[rutilate]

Which companies?

JetBlue, Coca-Cola, Nationwide, Merck, Panasonic, Riot Games, Oracle, Cisco, AIG, Teradata, American Cancer Society