Selling A Form 1 Rifle - Never Converted

[hyemb350]

Hi all. Need your help once again. I submitted a form 1 for a HK USC a few months ago but never went through with the conversion. I would like to sell it to fund another project but not sure what the best way to go about it is. I emailed and sent a physical letter requesting it be removed from the registry but understand that can take a while. I’ve heard many different answers and not sure what’s actually legal to do. Any advice from someone who knows this stuff or has gone through it? Thank you in advance.

 

[Tartakovsky]

You have to get confirmation from the ATF it’s been removed before you can sell it as a non-SBR.

 

[hyemb350]

You have to get confirmation from the ATF it’s been removed before you can sell it as a non-SBR.

Thanks. That seems to be the most logical answer but I got so many different versions I became confused. Sounds like the safest way is to wait.

 

[ReluctantDecoy]

Ouch. Eating a form 1 fee and not committing?

 

[hyemb350]

Ouch. Eating a form 1 fee and not committing?

Haha yep. Apparently you can get reimbursed if the rifle was never converted. But there is no clear direction how to do it. If anyone has done it, I would love to know.

 

[ReluctantDecoy]

Haha yep. Apparently you can get reimbursed if the rifle was never converted. But there is no clear direction how to do it. If anyone has done it, I would love to know.

That doesn't sound like the ATF I know.

 

[hyemb350]

That doesn't sound like the ATF I know.

Shocking, right?

 

[Romokid]

That doesn't sound like the ATF I know.

Sure, you just have to file a negative form 1 referred to as the -1 form and send in your check $350, wait 6 months and they will snail mail your reimbursement for your original form 1 stamp.

Sorry I had to as I can’t see them giving back money either.

 

[hyemb350]

Sure, you just have to file a negative form 1 referred to as the -1 form and send in your check $350, wait 6 months and they will snail mail your reimbursement for your original form 1 stamp.

Sorry I had to as I can’t see them giving back money either.

Haha sounds about right. I didn’t bother pursuing it, can’t imagine it would be an easy process.

 

[AMV]

You have to get confirmation from the ATF it’s been removed before you can sell it as a non-SBR.

Do you know this as fact? I have heard and read otherwise, If not in SBR configuration it is not an SBR, however it is recommended to notify the ATF in writing to remove from the registry but not required,


from the ATF hand book

Section 2.5 Removal of firearms from the scope of the NFA by modification/elimination of components. Firearms, except machineguns and silencers, that are subject to the NFA fall within the various definitions due to specific features. If the particular feature that causes a firearm to be regulated by the NFA is eliminated or modified, the resulting weapon is no longer an NFA weapon. For example, a shotgun with a barrel length of 15 inches is an NFA weapon. If the 15- inch barrel is removed and disposed of, the remaining firearm is not subject to the NFA because it has no barrel. Likewise, if the 15 inch barrel is modified by permanently attaching an extension such that the barrel length is at least 18 inches and the overall length of the weapon is at least 26 inches, the modified firearm is not subject to the NFA. NOTE: an acceptable method for permanently installing a barrel extension is by gas or electric steel seam welding or the use of high temperature silver solder having a flow point of 1100 degrees Fahrenheit.

 

[hyemb350]

Do you know this as fact? I have heard and read otherwise, If not in SBR configuration it is not an SBR, however it is recommended to notify the ATF in writing to remove from the registry but not required,


from the ATF hand book

Section 2.5 Removal of firearms from the scope of the NFA by modification/elimination of components. Firearms, except machineguns and silencers, that are subject to the NFA fall within the various definitions due to specific features. If the particular feature that causes a firearm to be regulated by the NFA is eliminated or modified, the resulting weapon is no longer an NFA weapon. For example, a shotgun with a barrel length of 15 inches is an NFA weapon. If the 15- inch barrel is removed and disposed of, the remaining firearm is not subject to the NFA because it has no barrel. Likewise, if the 15 inch barrel is modified by permanently attaching an extension such that the barrel length is at least 18 inches and the overall length of the weapon is at least 26 inches, the modified firearm is not subject to the NFA. NOTE: an acceptable method for permanently installing a barrel extension is by gas or electric steel seam welding or the use of high temperature silver solder having a flow point of 1100 degrees Fahrenheit.

I’ve heard this recently also. So going by this, since the rifle was never converted, it was never an NFA weapon. Now if I sell it and the buyer wants to SBR it, it would be an issue until it’s removed from the registry. Somewhere along my quest for an answer, I was also told as long as I notify the future buyer and that I requested removal from ATF, I can go ahead and sell it. Is the handbook available online?

 

[GP89]

In February 2018, all it took was an email to the inspector stating the firearm was never made w/ applicant name, application ID, permit #, manufacturer, model, serial & submission date and they cancelled it within a week. It's worth cc'ing [email protected], and I included Ted Clutter (gone?) & Gary Schaible (retired) too.

The card I originally used had expired, so I received the $200 back via a UST check in the mail several weeks later.

 

[Broc]

The solution is very simple:

- convert the rifle + buy the other gun.

 

[drgrant]

Ouch. Eating a form 1 fee and not committing?

On an HK conversion that's basically nothing

 

[Marty McFly]

On an HK conversion that's basically nothing

Well it's basically 200 bucks. That's 10 lap dances in mass. Or 20 in Atlanta. That's a big deal to me

 

[AMV]

I’ve heard this recently also. So going by this, since the rifle was never converted, it was never an NFA weapon. Now if I sell it and the buyer wants to SBR it, it would be an issue until it’s removed from the registry. Somewhere along my quest for an answer, I was also told as long as I notify the future buyer and that I requested removal from ATF, I can go ahead and sell it. Is the handbook available online?

sure is ATF National Firearms Act Handbook - Chapter 2 | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

doesn't matter if it was converted or not, as long as it is not currently that way you can sell it as a title 1 firearm, You can notify ATF if you want to, but are not required to, all depending on your comfort level, should not affect future form 1 applications, either way

better link hear National Firearms Act Handbook | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

 

[ReluctantDecoy]

On an HK conversion that's basically nothing

If OP is selling a HK to fund his next project, I'll eat my hat. That's not an HK baller move. That's a "the poors" move, like the rest of us lowly heathens.

 

[JRT]

Do you know this as fact? I have heard and read otherwise, If not in SBR configuration it is not an SBR, however it is recommended to notify the ATF in writing to remove from the registry but not required,


from the ATF hand book

Section 2.5 Removal of firearms from the scope of the NFA by modification/elimination of components. Firearms, except machineguns and silencers, that are subject to the NFA fall within the various definitions due to specific features. If the particular feature that causes a firearm to be regulated by the NFA is eliminated or modified, the resulting weapon is no longer an NFA weapon. For example, a shotgun with a barrel length of 15 inches is an NFA weapon. If the 15- inch barrel is removed and disposed of, the remaining firearm is not subject to the NFA because it has no barrel. Likewise, if the 15 inch barrel is modified by permanently attaching an extension such that the barrel length is at least 18 inches and the overall length of the weapon is at least 26 inches, the modified firearm is not subject to the NFA. NOTE: an acceptable method for permanently installing a barrel extension is by gas or electric steel seam welding or the use of high temperature silver solder having a flow point of 1100 degrees Fahrenheit.

This is the correct answer. You can sell it and send the deregistration letter in the same day. You probably want to know if the buyer plans to SBR, they will have to wait until it’s off the registry.

 

[JRT]

sure is ATF National Firearms Act Handbook - Chapter 2 | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

doesn't matter if it was converted or not, as long as it is not currently that way you can sell it as a title 1 firearm, You can notify ATF if you want to, but are not required to, all depending on your comfort level, should not affect future form 1 applications, either way

better link hear National Firearms Act Handbook | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

So, I was told it would affect future form 1 registration. With many things NFA it could totally be rumor.

 

[ReluctantDecoy]

This is the correct answer. You can sell it and send the deregistration letter in the same day. You probably want to know if the buyer plans to SBR, they will have to wait until it’s off the registry.

How would this apply to lowers though that are meant for easy attachment/removal of any size upper?

 

[AMV]

How would this apply to lowers though that are meant for easy attachment/removal of any size upper?

Applies to lowers same as it would apply to anything else. Pull the pins take the short barrel upper off....not an SBR. Put the upper back on.... now it’s an SBR

 

[AMV]

So, I was told it would affect future form 1 registration. With many things NFA it could totally be rumor.

If it is no longer an NFA item it should not matter if some one else wants to form 1 it again ATF will take your money. There will always be a record kept, it’s status may change but it is never removed. I will let you know soon for sure. I Have a form 1 for a Factory Mossberg SBS that was sold to me without a barrel

 

[ReluctantDecoy]

Applies to lowers same as it would apply to anything else. Pull the pins take the short barrel upper off....not an SBR. Put the upper back on.... now it’s an SBR

I have a feeling that Section 2.5 was written before modular uppers/lowers were in play, as it otherwise doesn't make all that much sense given how easy things can be changed now. But I suppose none of the NFA makes sense.

 

[AMV]

I have a feeling that Section 2.5 was written before modular uppers/lowers were in play, as it otherwise doesn't make all that much sense given how easy things can be changed now. But I suppose none of the NFA makes sense.

How is it different than the example they use? A shotgun barrel is pretty darn easy to remove and replace. How is an upper different????

 

[ReluctantDecoy]

How is it different than the example they use? A shotgun barrel is pretty darn easy to remove and replace. How is an upper different????

True. I stand corrected, but I was fixated on the part where they say "permanently installing a barrel extension" as the antiquated part.

 

[AMV]

True. I stand corrected, but I was fixated on the part where they say "permanently installing a barrel extension" as the antiquated part.

I think that part you are referring to would cover the HK style rifle with a pressed in barrel. Simply screw on the appropriate length flash hider, muzzle break or extension and weld it .... now no longer and nfa item

 

[jkelly1229]

Well it's basically 200 bucks. That's 10 lap dances in mass. Or 20 in Atlanta. That's a big deal to me

Yeah but its like 3 screws and a magazine spring in hk world

 

[Marty McFly]

Yeah but its like 3 screws and a magazine spring in hk world

Believe me I know that too. But lap dances matter too

 

[hyemb350]

In February 2018, all it took was an email to the inspector stating the firearm was never made w/ applicant name, application ID, permit #, manufacturer, model, serial & submission date and they cancelled it within a week. It's worth cc'ing [email protected], and I included Ted Clutter (gone?) & Gary Schaible (retired) too.

The card I originally used had expired, so I received the $200 back via a UST check in the mail several weeks later.

Thanks! Might go ahead and give it a try.

 

[hyemb350]

sure is ATF National Firearms Act Handbook - Chapter 2 | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

doesn't matter if it was converted or not, as long as it is not currently that way you can sell it as a title 1 firearm, You can notify ATF if you want to, but are not required to, all depending on your comfort level, should not affect future form 1 applications, either way

better link hear National Firearms Act Handbook | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

Great, thank you! I did notify them, via email and physical letter.