Scopes/Bolt gun/F-Classers

[ZainAnak]

Hey all. I'm curious if anyone here is really into scoped/bolt gun shooting, and will be shooting in some of the any/any 600 matches (or any others) with scoped rifles. I'm looking to get into it and meeting up to get a good understanding would be awesome at one of the ranges this season. Perhaps there's even a group of you out there (?)

Thanks!
-ZA

 

[bpm990d]

We haunt all the same places.

There are a few guys on the board. I bet most shoot OTC or prone matches though. F-class is growing, but it is overshadowed by people that shoot with slings and jackets. All are welcome though.

B

 

[ZainAnak]

Haha, indeed .

I see you're in Augusta- will you be making it to any of these matches?

 

[bpm990d]

I have not shot a lot in the last couple of years, but have been trying to find the time to get back into it. I'm going to try and make it to some of the bigger matches (state champs & regionals) but probably wont go to Perry. I do shoot some of the prone stuff but I'm mostly a course shooter, I probably won't travel down to Reading or Nashua for any of the prone matches but there is one on the 22nd in Hampden that I'm going to try and shoot. There is also a prone match that is held in conjunction with the Vermont state match over Memorial day that I will probably fire my Palma rifle in (if I go).

B

 

[cdkayak]

ZA,

There's a member on here, DryDock, who was shooting more of the Prone Matches & I think he was getting into some of the F-Class as well. Might want to touch base with him & see what info he has.

 

[ZainAnak]

Cool. Do you guys know what the best way to get into shooting with optics is? Is there some sort of bible or software program or general guide that "everyone" has read/used? With only a handful of prone matches coming up, I'm not going to be able to get hundreds of hours in with practice, and I'd like to show up to the first any/any match with at least a semblance of an idea for what's going on . (This is why I was asking on these forums before about what people do for practice and if there are any steel plate ranges around.)

 

[Jose]

!

 

[bpm990d]

I don't think there is really a guide out there or any one real good source. I'd do a lot of reading on long-range.com. Do you have a rifle or are you going to buy or build something? I wouldn't buy anything until you go to a couple of matches and figure out exactly what you want to do, and how seriously you want to pursue it.

Here is a list of things just off the top of my head that would get you started. Some of them may be relevant for you, some may not, but other people may be interested. You wont find some of this stuff on other board unless you dig pretty deep. I've probably left out a lot of stuff, but I'm sure others will chime in.

Rifle with a scope. A varmint rifle with a heavy barrel would work well, but you could also use a semi auto like an AR varmint rig. If you have a regular scope base, you should be ok if you are shooting to 600 yards, but it is really best to get an angled base. The angled base gives you about 20 minutes of extra elevation, but what it really does is allow your scope to maximize the windage it has. As you get toward the top of your elevation adjustment, you start to run out of windage because the scope body is round and not square.

Yellow Open Bolt Indicator - They are like $3 and you can get one at your first match.

Bipod or rest
Rear sandbag

ground cloth - poncho will work

Something to cushion your shoulder - A shooting jacket or one of those PAST shoulder pads will work well. Even one of the old cheap jackets offers enough padding to make 66 shots enjoyable. Without padding 66 shots of any center fire rifle can be unpleasant.

spotting scope or pair of binoculars. After you shoot, you have to score the next guy and the binos/spotting scope are needed since you can't see the scoring disc without optics.

lawn chair with a back to sit in. You can get by with a camp stool, but at the end of the day it is hard on your back.

Lunch & something to drink.

Eye and ear protection for shooting and pulling pits.

A couple of pencils

small notebook

Rain gear

A 3X600 is three twenty shot matches. Bring at least 66 rounds. You will get two sighters for each string. Better to just bring 80 rounds.

​

Before the match

Load some decent ammo or buy it. Only use match grade bullets. Try and stick with stuff with a boattail.

You need to be on paper for your first shot at 600yds. If you don't have a 600 yard zero, get a solid zero at 100 yards or possibly 50 yards. Get your notebook out and record your sight settings so you can go back to them if need be.

Once you do that you can get the come ups with a program and make adjustments from those basic short range zeros. Use an online ballistics program to predict what they are and then figure out how high you should be shooting at 100 yards for a 600 yard zero. If you have not chronographed your ammo, you need to make a guess on how fast it is going for the calculator to work. Your reloading manual should give you a ball park idea on the velocity. If you are shooting factory ammo, go to their website and look at their tables to figure out how fast the stuff is going. Also pay attention to the reference rifle they use to generate the velocity. If your barrel is 26 inches and they used a 24 inch barrel you will be shooting a little faster. I use about 25 FPS for each inch or barrel length to come up with a decent guess.

Here is an example. If I want to get a 600 yard zero with my .308 rifle shooting 168s at 2726 fps, I should zero the rifle so that I'm hitting 16.1 inches high at 100 yards. Just make sure to bring a tape measure/yard stick and a marker to the range when you zero.

If you are not able to do that try this. Although I have not personally tested these, but they look right.

This formula works for 5.56mm, 7.62mm and .30/06. It will get you on paper and a lot of the time in the black. Caliber, bullet or velocity doesn't matter.

You normally have to touch up the elevation at 600 but the 200 and 300 comeups are usually in the 10 and X rings no matter what rifle you are shooting.


• From a 100 yard zero come up 2 minutes for 200 yards.
• From a 200 yard zero come up 3 minutes for 300 yards.
• From a 300 yard zero come up 7 minutes for 500 yards.
• From a 300 yard zero come up 12 minutes for 600 yards.
• From a 500 yard zero come up 5 minutes for 600 yards.
​

Show up early

Show up about 40 minutes early and sign in and pay your money. You will need to fill out an SR-1 Card. Tell the guy that you have never done this before, but let them know you have a good zero. If you don't hit paper in your first couple of shots, some of the ranges may ask you to stop shooting. Ask them to squad you with someone experienced. They will tell you what relay you are on and what point you are shooting at. Ask them where you should go (to the pits or the firing line).

In the Pits

When you go to the pits, let the person next to you know you are new and need some help. Bring your chair and your eye and ear protection to the pits. You will have to lug the targets out of the shed and put them up on the frame so make sure you remember what point you are on. You may even have to reface the target, just ask them which target to put up. The new F-class targets are smaller than the sling shooters use so all the F-class shooters are typically on the same points. Pay attention to what you are doing while you are pulling and try and give decent pit service. If the shots are going into the 10 & x ring, it shouldn't take more than 8 or 9 seconds to pull it, mark it, score it, past the hole, and run it back up. If they are all over the place that is something else and don't worry about it. Pit duty is something to take seriously.

They are in the process of changing things, but the values are indicated on the target with scoring disks. Here is where the scoring disks go.

The old system

This is the new system

Getting Ready to Shoot

Up on the firing line, find who you are squadded with and introduce yourself and let them know you are new. You can sometimes place some of your gear like your mat and spotting scope up on the line before your relay is called. Your gear goes to the right of the point marker. They will formally call you to the line and let you know that you can handle your rifle. They will give you a three minute preparation period where you can dry fire your rifle and fiddle with the sights. The targets will be exposed during this time. At the end of the three minutes they will pull the targets down and you will be told you are going to start the match. When the targets come up you will have 22 minutes for 2 sighters and 20 shots for record. Make sure your scorer has your score card and is behind you. Sometimes they wander off. Ask your scorer to call out the shots as he marks them down on the card. It helps everyone keep track of just how many shots have been taken. In some instances they just call you to the line and tell you that you are going to be given "block time" of 25 minutes. That just means that when the targets come up, you can shoot at them. They are just cutting out the wasted time with the formality of pulling them and running them back up. What ever you do, don't shoot until you hear other people start shooting. It can save you a lot of embarrassment/humiliation.

The Wind

If you are shooting in New England, unless it is really blowing or you are shooting something wimpy, you should be on paper even if you don't make any windage correction. The best thing to do is just ask someone. Tell them what you are shooting for a load and how much do they think it is worth. Put that on the rifle and shoot your two sighters. If your two sighters are close together, you will want to make adjustments to center your shots up in the X ring. Don't worry too much about it. Just concentrate on shooting good shots and figuring out what is going on at the match. Lots of new shooters get scared by the wind and think they are being blown all over creation, but they are just shooting them all over the place.

More to follow--

 

[bpm990d]

Shooting

You shoot 1 shot at a time and you single load. Make sure you are pointing at the correct target each time you get ready to shoot. Cross fires are scored a miss and they can piss off your neighbor. Fire your shot and then put another round in the chamber while you are waiting for the target to come up. You can close the bolt and be ready to knock it down when it comes up, but as a new shooter, just take your time and close the bolt after the target comes up. Keep the muzzle pointed at the target while you are closing the bolt. Most ranges are super strict about that one and they will give you one warning before you get the BOOT!

The two sighting shots are not for score, but they let you see where your rifle is shooting and what the wind is doing to the bullet. Feel free to adjust your sights at any point in the string. You can hold off with a scope, but if you have target knobs, it is sometimes best to click into the X ring. If you have 1/4 minute adjustments each click moves the strike of the bullet 1.5 inches at 600 yards.

Don't worry about time, there is plenty of it. After you are done shooting, make sure the rifle is clear, and put the open bolt indicator in it. You can get up with your rifle and they will clear you off the line, but leave your stuff alone, as it can disturb your neighbors if you are pulling all your stuff off and they are still shooting. Your scorer will give you your card and ask you to sign it. Check the math and the shot value. Sign it if it is correct and give it back to the scorer to turn in. It is their job to turn it in.

At some point after all the shooting is done on that relay, they will allow a you to get the rest of your gear and they will have a brass call where you can go forward or the line and get your brass. Make sure to get your stuff off the line pronto, as someone else is waiting to get their stuff down for the next relay. There is plenty of time to do everything you need to do, but not a lot of time to mess around.

Scoring

After you shoot it is your turn to score. Most people score to the right rear of their shooter. Get the score card from them and get your pencil ready. Pay close attention to your shooter and the target they are shooting on while you are scoring. You can really mess things up if you don't and it can cost someone the match. Watch them, not the target as they are getting ready to shoot. When they fire, look in the scope and get ready to record the value on the score card. When it is run up, write the value down, and say your shooters name, and the value. Don't tell them where it is, just their name and the value.

Watch them get ready to fire again. When they do, get back on the scope and start the process over again. Yes you can see the trace of the bullet go down range, but to keep track of the shots, watch your shooter and not the vapor trail. The shooting in F-Class can go very quickly and you will mess it up if you don't pay close attention. It is very embarrassing to have your shooter fire 22 shots, and you only have 18 shots on the score card. Most every shooter has messed this up at one time or another but it is frowned on big time. Once your shooter is done, add up the score, and ask them to sign it. If they are fiddling with their notebook or something, just give them a minute. They are probably making a note of their zeroes or trying to remember something important that they want to write down. Have them sign the card, and then you should give it to the person collecting the cards. It is your job, not the shooters job to do that. Of course a lot of people just do their own thing, but just ignore them.

You will shoot three separate strings. It is nice because it will give you a break from the shooting, and it mixes it up a little.

Unless your gear or ammo is all screwed up or you are a tremendously bad shot, you should have fun. Make sure not to smile too much, your face will hurt at the end of the day.

B

 

[bpm990d]

Some pictures of F-Class shooters at last years Vermont Prone Championship

 

[ZainAnak]

Wow- Thanks! It's a shame you won't be shooting down here at Reading, sounds like you'd make a good coach

 

[bpm990d]

There is lots of stuff about gear and equipment on the boards, but not a lot about how a match runs or things to pay attention to your first time out.

What do you have for a rifle, or are you going to buy something? Savage just came out with a nice rifle.

B

 

[ZainAnak]

I'm probably going to get a 700P and match it with a Leupold- probably one of the Mark IVs (either an M1 or M3, can't decide which just yet).

 

[bpm990d]

A 700P would be a good gun. I think someone on the board had one for sale a week or so ago. It might be worth digging around. Also If you are looking at Leopold scopes, stick with the M1. The M3s have very course elevation adjustments for F-class. I would also get a variable with at least up to 20X.

I may suggest though, that if you are just going to use your rifle for F-Class and you want to buy something off the shelf, you should seriously look at the New Savage 12 F/TR Precision Target Rifle. It has a lot of features; like a 30 inch barrel and a very good trigger that you just can't get on a 700P from the factory. It is about as good as you can get without going the custom route.

B

 

[Jose]

I agree with B. Forget the Remington and get the Savage.

Better yet, learn to shoot it with a sling and match aperture sights.

 

[ZainAnak]

Re: the Savage- thanks but no thanks. I'm not looking for a stainless steel rig, let alone a wooden one. I also don't like the accutrigger. And for the money, I'd rather get the tried and true 700. At over 1K, the new Savage is pricey and I've heard mixed things about them. Re: the sling and sights, they don't apply- this one is purely for long distance, scoped shooting.

B- interesting on the M1- that was the impression I'd also gotten from people on other forums re: the adjustment. Now, about variability, can you give me some insight into two questions:

1) Most mil scopes, such as the one on the Barrett, M24, and M40, are fixed 10X. I am looking to use F Class not only to learn pure shooting, but also to get familiar with what the military uses (hence the 700). My question is, if the 10X is sufficient for 2K+ shooting with a Barrett, why not 600y? Why do you suggest such high magnification?

2) I notice most of the tactical Leupolds come with a front focal plane. I'm considering getting a mil dot reticle, and from what I understand about scopes, why would you ever want a rear / second plane with a variable scope? Doesn't it render reticle-based adjustment useless?

 

[dvajda]

Re: the Savage- thanks but no thanks. I'm not looking for a stainless steel rig, let alone a wooden one. I also don't like the accutrigger. And for the money, I'd rather get the tried and true 700. At over 1K, the new Savage is pricey and I've heard mixed things about them. Re: the sling and sights, they don't apply- this one is purely for long distance, scoped shooting.

B- interesting on the M1- that was the impression I'd also gotten from people on other forums re: the adjustment. Now, about variability, can you give me some insight into two questions:

1) Most mil scopes, such as the one on the Barrett, M24, and M40, are fixed 10X. I am looking to use F Class not only to learn pure shooting, but also to get familiar with what the military uses (hence the 700). My question is, if the 10X is sufficient for 2K+ shooting with a Barrett, why not 600y? Why do you suggest such high magnification?

2) I notice most of the tactical Leupolds come with a front focal plane. I'm considering getting a mil dot reticle, and from what I understand about scopes, why would you ever want a rear / second plane with a variable scope? Doesn't it render reticle-based adjustment useless?

Let me try to answer these:

1) It is all about what you are shooting. The military uses 10x for several reasons. The first and main reason is that building a fixed power scope means the scope is much simpler and tougher. This is the military, so they like the fact that you can use it as a hammer, and things are less likely to break inside from the .50 recoil and such. Second, a fixed magnification scope is cheaper to make and buy, since it is simpler, and the military loves this. Next, with the magnification fixed, it is easier to use because the mil dots are measured at 10x and the scope can only be AT 10x, so the user doesn't have to take that into consideration (for instance, my mil-hash marks are done at 10x on my 4-14x scope, so at 14x I either have to run some calculations or my distance estimation will be off). Finally, fixed magnification at 10x is all that you need to make a solid hit on a person-sized object. The military is not shooting for accuracy or groups with such scopes. They only need to hit a human sized target, and 10x is enough for that. You, on the other hand, want to get a nice group, and to possibly see your holes at 100+ yards. Basically, the military is not target shooting, while you are. Also, the variable scope lets you make close in shots of 100 yards, while most guys with the .50 and so on in the military won't take shots that close, since they give away their advantage (that being distance, the sniper's advantage and safety). So, military snipers don't need to be able to go to 4x for up close movers, since probably it isn't safe for them (I'm sure many can do it in 10x anyway, those guys are gods, but I digress). In closing, it is all about target shooting vs people shooting. You want accuracy and groups, they just want to neutralize targets with one shot, groups are meaningless.

2) From what I see, most tactical Leupold scopes DON'T come with front focal planes. Not to mention, I've never seen anyone really using an FFP scope. Places like McMillan sniper school don't seem to be recommending FFP either. Why? Because it really doesn't matter. All variable scopes are calibrated at a certain magnification for their mil-dots or mil-hashes. So, you just go to 10x or whatever, use that for ranging, and go back to whatever magnification you want to actually shoot at, once you have figured out ALL the distances you want. With a FFP scope, there is one big drawback, which is that the size of the reticle lines increases with magnification. So, on a 3.5-10x scope, at 3.5x the reticle lines and marks may be very small, hard to see, but at 10x they may become quite fat. This can get worse if your scope has a very large range, like 4-14 or our to 20+. So, you end up with really fat reticle lines and marks at high magnification, which can actually obscure your target. Think about this: you are making a long range shot at something small, but when you turn to max magnification, you find that your crosshairs are so big that they completely obscure the target. Hence, most places don't go with FFP (as far as I know). Having your reticle lines not increase in size with magnification can keep targets from being obscured or from the reticle from become cluttered.

Anyway, I hope this helps. And I could be completely wrong, this is all put together from what I have learned when I had similar questions.

 

[bpm990d]

I think what you are trying to do, is to pick some things that may be good for one type of application, and apply those to a different application. This is not uncommon among even experienced shooters. Think of it like telling someone you want to shoot IPSIC unlimited class because that is what the local clubs offer, and then picking a good concealed carry gun, and then trying to use it in that class.

In F-Class you are shooting strings of shots against known distance targets with very difficult scoring rings.

In tactical shooting you are shooting a single shot or just a few at unknown distances, with a rifle that you have to carry and use in a variety of different applications that includes using the reticle to mil targets.​

While the two things use rifles that look similar, and many of the people that participate may intermingle, they still are different animals. A Mil dot reticle or something that can be used for determining range is a must for a tactical shooter, they just sort of get in the way for an F-class shooter, and the magnification for most scopes with a mil dot, is not what is needed for F-class. For example, I have a 4.5-14X Leupold scope with a Mil Dot I used for shooting prone with a sling at long range, I replaced it with a 6.5-20X Leupold with a dot for prone shooting with a sling. The 14X was just not enough magnification for me to aim as precisely as I wanted to, and the lack of a dot in the center of the cross hair made it difficult to focus on the reticle for long strings. I think there are some Night Force reticles that may be very useful for both and many people are using them successfully for F-class, but those scopes are typically fairly high power variables. The high power is used to very precisely aim at the target, something that is simple more difficult to do with a lower powered scope. I have a friend that has a 28X scope he uses out of a sling.

As far as the FFP reticle, I don't think it really matters for F-class. You will not need to mil any thing and you will probably use the scope at its max power once you get a little experience.

Don't misunderstand what I'm saying though. You can build a tactical rig and have a great time shooting in F-class, but It will not be optimized for shooting F-class. At the end of the day I think that you will find that if you start shooting matches more than a couple of times a year, you will probably come to the conclusion on your own that your rig is not what you really want for F-Class shooting and then you have to spend money to change things.

If you already have a rig, I would say just come on out and shoot it. If you are buying, then you may want to optimize the gun so you get the most mileage out of it for its intended purpose. It's not a lot of fun to show up at the match with your new rig, and then you find out that the other participants have 30 inch barrels, and 20X rifle scopes. If there were a lot of tactical type matches in the local area, you might get some better mileage out of a tactical rig, but there really are not a lot of opportunities for that type of competition around here.

YMMV

B

 

[bpm990d]

From what I see, most tactical Leupold scopes DON'T come with front focal planes.

I think the latest catalog has some that are in FFP as an option.

B

 

[ZainAnak]

To dvajda- check out the site- most seem to at least be available in FFP:

http://www.leupold.com/products/tactical_products/Leupold_Mark_4_LRT.htm

To bpm-

I have to give you credit. You are one of the first people who has actually and pretty completely understood what I'm looking to get out of my shooting experience. My top two priorities in shooting are collecting modern tactical and military rifles, and learning to become a crack shot with *any* rifle someone puts in my hand. As a result, you are dead on- I am using competition to improve my skills as a marksman proper, but within the context that matters to *me*. I got into a similar problem with high power- there are rifles that appeal to me and there are those that don't. And that consideration comes first. So when I was suggesting more varmint-type rigs because I plainly enjoyed the look more, it was brought up again and again that I wouldn't be competitive, I'd be at a disadvantage, etc. etc. But the key point here is that the only real person I'm going to compete against is myself, plain and simple. It's the skills I'm looking to pick up, not the NRA designations. Kudos to those who are after that, don't get me wrong, it's just not for me.

Similarly, in F Class, the same applies. Shooting this:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v181/762x51/Guns/M700/700P-1-Med.jpg

compared to shooting this:
http://www.southamptonuas.co.uk/gallery2/d/125-2/Target+Rifle+Shooting+04_06_06+009.jpg

Is about akin to going from a Ferrari to one of these:
http://www.hollywood-diecast.com/vacation truckster.jpg



So more often than not I'm willing to forego competitiveness against the shooter to my right if it makes the gun under my arm the one I want to shoot. At the end of the day the only scores I'm comparing against are the ones I shot last week.

Anyway, perhaps a bit long-winded, but I had to get this across since you seemed to really get it. Your responses here on the forums to all of my questions have been dead on. Seriously, bravo.

And heading into the future, I may make this point clearer so that I'll know how feasible a rig is, rather than how many points it will give me compared to others on the line.

As a final note, I've totally seen people with 700Ps in those configurations in pics of F Class matches. So I must not be that nuts.

 

[bpm990d]

I think your choice of a Griswald rifle will be fine.

B

 

[ZainAnak]

On a related note, I'm trying to find a picture of what a target at 600y looks like under 10x magnification, to get a frame of reference. Do you have one, or ones at other magnifications at 600y? Would be mucho helpful.

Thanks!

 

[bpm990d]

This is the new F-Class Target

NRA No. MR-1FC - F-Class target Center based on the MR-1 target for use at 600 yards. To
be pasted over the MR-1 target.
Aiming Black (inches)
X ring . . . . . . . . . . . 3.00
10 ring . . . . . . . . . . . 6.00
9 ring . . . . . . . . . . . 12.00
8 ring . . . . . . . . . . . 18.00
7 ring . . . . . . . . . . 24.00
6 ring . . . . . . . . . . 36.00

Rings in white (inches)
5 ring . . . . . . . . . 48.00

Target Frame is 72.00​

The entire frame will only be ~ 3.25 mils according to my Mil Dot Master.

B

 

[Jose]

My top two priorities in shooting are collecting modern tactical and military rifles, and learning to become a crack shot with *any* rifle someone puts in my hand.

Then you are doing yourself a disservice by using a scoped, bipod supported rifle.

An aperture sighted, sling supported rifle will force you to develop the fundamentals of marksmanship to a razor's edge and will punish mistakes that other types of shooting systems are far more forgiving of. Those marksmanship fundamentals easily carry over to more "practical" rifles, while the reverse is not so true. Get used to shooting scoped, bipod rifles and trying to make hits at 300 plus yards using a standard infantry rifle is going to be an eye opener.

 

[ZainAnak]

Then you are doing yourself a disservice by using a scoped, bipod supported rifle.

An aperture sighted, sling supported rifle will force you to develop the fundamentals of marksmanship to a razor's edge and will punish mistakes that other types of shooting systems are far more forgiving of. Those marksmanship fundamentals easily carry over to more "practical" rifles, while the reverse is not so true. Get used to shooting scoped, bipod rifles and trying to make hits at 300 plus yards using a standard infantry rifle is going to be an eye opener.

Perhaps I should have been more clear- this rig will NOT be my primary one. I'm getting an iron sight AR-type rifle for highpower as my primary learner. This rig is specifically to learn scoped bipod shooting.

 

[Jose]

Perhaps I should have been more clear- this rig will NOT be my primary one. I'm getting an iron sight AR-type rifle for highpower as my primary learner. This rig is specifically to learn scoped bipod shooting.

Got it. Now it makes more sense.

 

[ZainAnak]

trying to delete this post, can't figure out how

 

[dvajda]

To ZainAnak and bpm990d:

While Leupolds are available with FFP, what I was saying is that of the ones I've seen, or the ones for sale, almost none are FFP. While Leupold may be making them according to their website, it doesn't mean that they are popular among shooters. I stand by my reasoning behind the drawbacks of FFP, and I think shooters in general will agree with me. Though, I will say that I know more tactical shooters than I do F-class or target shooters, so perhaps my viewpoint is slanted. I personally am tactical oriented with my equipment, yet I still have a 4-14 scope on my Remington 700 LTR, as this is highly recommended for tactical shooters by many respected training schools. Remember, just because the military does something, doesn't mean it is the best way. In fact, it is usually only the "most adequate solution on average" way. Since we are doing this as a hobby, we can choose to use the best (if we can afford it!) instead of just using the most cost effective solution that can get the job done.

For excellent conversation about whether to get a fixed 10x scope, such as the excellent and affordable Super Sniper line, or to get variable, and what type/brand/magnification, I would tell you to check out the SWFA optics forum. This is THE place to talk about such issues, and I learned a TON there. Their website is http://www.opticstalk.com/.

Another excellent website about long distance shooting can be found at http://demigod.org/articles/practical-long-range-rifle-shooting-equipment/. This is a great website that discusses equipment including optics, and has some great discussion on what to look for in a scope (and talks about FFP).

 

[ZainAnak]

Great info. Thanks so much!

Also, since you've got a tactical slant, I'll probably be asking you stuff in the future.

 

[bpm990d]

I don't think that the Barretts are all that accurate to be shooting at people at that distance. It is classified as an anti material rifle. That being said, I have not fired one. Shooting at a target at 1500 yds. and hitting it with a rifle you can carry and shoot from your shoulder is not something that happens every day.

I think rifles set up for shooting at extreme range have fairly high powered scopes. A 6 foot target would be about 1.35 mils at 1500 yds.

B