JayMcB
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Has anyone here bought one of the ATN thermal scopes? I am looking to further diversify my rifle optics and I think the time for one is...coming up on now.
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School me on thermal scopes
- Thread starter JayMcB
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Aside from it just being cool, what is the practical application for a civilian to own a thermal scope? What sort of situations would it be used in?
I feel like I should add in a disclaimer that this is a genuine question, no tone or judgement; I’m genuinely curious.
I feel like I should add in a disclaimer that this is a genuine question, no tone or judgement; I’m genuinely curious.
A thermal scope, used off-firearm, is a useful tool for observing wildlife. On-firearm it can "see" a deer mostly obscured by brush during the day, they re not just nighttime scopes. They will also see a cooling-down dead deer. Day or night they will spot an animal standing still, they will see thermal contrasts even if it is only one degree. They'll see small game, too. They are ITAR-restricted and can only be owned by citizens, you can't take one to another country. They can be used to check your house insulation, and can probably see bad bearings on machines.
Most can take still pix and can act like a thermal camcorder, recording thermal video.
Most can take still pix and can act like a thermal camcorder, recording thermal video.
One of these on your sentry gun. Work down from the specs
www.hodgesmarine.com
Flir M364c Lr Stabilized Thermal/Visible Long Range Ip Camera
FLIR M364C LR STABILIZED THERMALVISIBLE LONG RANGEM364C LR Stabilzed ThermalVisible Long Range IP CameraPREMIUM MULTISPECTRAL MARINE CAMERAS WITH ACTIVE GYROSTABILIZATIONFeaturing a high definition low light camera and one of the most advanced FLI...
www.hodgesmarine.com
I did some low level programming and system engineering on a model line back in the day. I also took a military TWS model line and made it eligible for civilian sales. In the process - I needed to use them; it was easier for me to take them home, put it on my rifle, and bring it to the range for test. The short story is the novelty wears off quickly unless you have a real application. The only real application I have seen is hunting. Most hunting with them seem to be going after boar.
From looking at t specs, the ATN scopes will do ballistic calculations to adjust impact point , considering things like tilt, elevation, temperature, atmo pressure, bullet weight and vel, but you have to feed it wind data (from your phone or tablet).
I worked at a place that was working up a thermal rifle scope. A very amusing aspect is, you can't see the black on a target unless the sun shines on it! Though warming a steel target with a heat gun works.
Funny story - with one of the image processing algorithms I wrote, you could see a 223 hole on cardboard for about 15 seconds. After approximating the first shot, follow on shots became really easy. Also, it was cake to figure out if the rifle was zeroed.
AllaSnackbah
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There are tons of practical uses for thermal.
They might be ITAR restricted. Not all are, depending on the features and specs.
I have one I use for thermal mapping large display installs, and I have flown all over the world with it, and because it is a commercial model with none of the traditional "firearms" related features, and a fairly "low" resolution and field of view, it is not considered ITAR restricted.
I have a Seek Thermal Camera that plugs into my Cell Phone. It was
about $300 at Kittery Trading Post. It is also ITAR restricted.
I want to get a real thermal scope in the near future.
At the Manchester Gunshow I found a Gen1 Night Vision scope
for $375.
Malodave
about $300 at Kittery Trading Post. It is also ITAR restricted.
I want to get a real thermal scope in the near future.
At the Manchester Gunshow I found a Gen1 Night Vision scope
for $375.
Malodave
JayMcB
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I’m trying to get educated on the tech.I have some NV gear, and a fair amount of land I’d like to be able to ‘observe wildlife’ on.
NV gives you a leg up on seeing at night. I’m interested in a diversity of identifying options.
I have a low end ATN (384x288, 1.2x, 30Hz) and a FLIR Breach PTQ 136 (320x256 1x, 60Hz). The faster 60Hz frame rate is very noticeable, and I wouldn't buy another device with a lower frame rate. The resolution of the device, at that low magnification, is good enough to ID a target maybe out to about 50 yards. Detection, much further out (I can spot a rabbit at 100 yards with either).
I would not hesitate to purchase another ATN device if the price is right. FLIR is pretty much out of the consumer market now. There're some other players in thermal NV now, but the prices don't vary much between models with comparable sensors/magnification. My next purchase will be a thermal scope with a 640 sensor, 2x magnification, @ 60 Hz. Now that I have a scanner, I could use a scope with a tighter FOV to get some better target detail.
ETA. One thing to keep in mind is how the unit is powered. Some have proprietary batteries, some have fixed batteries, and many allow you to piggyback an external power source. I typically use an external battery pack with both devices. One battery is helmet mounted, the other is in a buttstock pouch.
I would not hesitate to purchase another ATN device if the price is right. FLIR is pretty much out of the consumer market now. There're some other players in thermal NV now, but the prices don't vary much between models with comparable sensors/magnification. My next purchase will be a thermal scope with a 640 sensor, 2x magnification, @ 60 Hz. Now that I have a scanner, I could use a scope with a tighter FOV to get some better target detail.
ETA. One thing to keep in mind is how the unit is powered. Some have proprietary batteries, some have fixed batteries, and many allow you to piggyback an external power source. I typically use an external battery pack with both devices. One battery is helmet mounted, the other is in a buttstock pouch.
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Rocky Mosasaurus
NES Member
Has the quality just surpassed what they are willing to offer the shooting community? Any recommendations? I know that when FLIR began getting into rifle scopes things were supposed to improve for the consumer.
Flir made a decent entry level thermal for the consumer market, I think they stopped making them.
The two thermal rifle scopes I've owned are the Trijicon IR Hunter MKII and the Pulsar Thermion XP38. The Trijicon was awesome, the only thing I didn't like was you had to attach an external dvr to capture video. I sold it and bought the Thermion which comes with onboard video recording. I can see mice 100 yards away running up and down my berm in total dark.
I don't know what your budget is but Pulsar makes some good stuff, Trijicon is great too just more $$$$.
The two thermal rifle scopes I've owned are the Trijicon IR Hunter MKII and the Pulsar Thermion XP38. The Trijicon was awesome, the only thing I didn't like was you had to attach an external dvr to capture video. I sold it and bought the Thermion which comes with onboard video recording. I can see mice 100 yards away running up and down my berm in total dark.
I don't know what your budget is but Pulsar makes some good stuff, Trijicon is great too just more $$$$.
![[cheers]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/018.gif "Cheers [cheers]")
They stopped selling firearm sights a while back, apparently because they started seeing them as military hardware, wanted no part. Armasight is apparently still available, Armatite was the company Flir bought. Flir still sells monocular thermal sights.
alan226
NES Member
Usually the scopes that are not ITAR are Commerce/BIS controlled, which may require a license to certain countries...
Both of my pos first gen ATN digital scopes have met my expectations, and have not failed. I don't make use of the gps/wifi gadgets on them, just the video capture. I've used them in single digit temps for hours, without a problem. I'm not clearing rooms with them, just hunting. They've both held their zero. And being that I'm dealing with targets inside 100 yards, I don't need the best. Cost was a consideration.
I do like the PiP setup Pulsar has on some of their offerings, but that seems more useful for those working with greater distances.
I do like the PiP setup Pulsar has on some of their offerings, but that seems more useful for those working with greater distances.
JRT
NES Member
You can still buy Armasight by FLIR, its a really good optic for the money, this is the sight I use.. The Reap-IR is the way to go, its a little steep for me but I hunt with a friend that has one and its next level over the Armasight.
JayMcB
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I was hoping it wasn't $4k plus, but if the ATN is what you say it is....I guess I need to keep saving
Of course accidental bad shots can always happen, but that guy is taking a lot of shots he should not take. Continuing to wing several coyotes is inhumane. Don't be a dick- make clean kills.
Rocky Mosasaurus
NES Member
I would have to rewatch it because I watched it like a year ago, but if that is the case, then I definitely don't approve of animal cruelty. I'm a big animal guy and love animals as pets, respect wildlife conservation, and ethical hunting practices. Being raised in Boston, I have never personally gone hunting although I would be open to it if I learned properly and got my hunters license. I also believe in humane kills in all areas hunting and combat related. Thank you for pointing this out and I apologize that you found the video disturbing in this way.
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