Schmidt Rubin questions

Karl

Karl

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Hi folks.... By some strange events I've ended up with a few bucks to spend on a few new guns. With the assault weapons insanity in full swing I've been looking for something different in the milsurp arena and I'm thinking about a Schmidt Rubin 1911. I've seen a few for sale on GB and I have a couple of questions.

What's the deal with 7.5 Swiss ammo? I saw one seller offering some vintage 7.5 Swiss ammo made by Norma. The seller said the older 7.5 has a lower pressure rating and is better in the Schmidt Rubin. My impression of the 1911 in particular is that it's not exactly an "under built" action and this is just seller BS or someone babying the rifle.

The other question is about dates of manufacture. I found a 1911 long rifle on GB I'm interested in but the date range is 340xxx. According to here.....

Manufacture Dates of Swiss Schmidt-Rubin Rifles

That number doesn't fall into place. Is this not a 1911?
 
Karl said:
Hi folks.... By some strange events I've ended up with a few bucks to spend on a few new guns. With the assault weapons insanity in full swing I've been looking for something different in the milsurp arena and I'm thinking about a Schmidt Rubin 1911. I've seen a few for sale on GB and I have a couple of questions.

What's the deal with 7.5 Swiss ammo? I saw one seller offering some vintage 7.5 Swiss ammo made by Norma. The seller said the older 7.5 has a lower pressure rating and is better in the Schmidt Rubin. My impression of the 1911 in particular is that it's not exactly an "under built" action and this is just seller BS or someone babying the rifle.

The other question is about dates of manufacture. I found a 1911 long rifle on GB I'm interested in but the date range is 340xxx. According to here.....

Manufacture Dates of Swiss Schmidt-Rubin Rifles

That number doesn't fall into place. Is this not a 1911?
Click to expand...

You can use "modern" ammo (GP-11, Prvi, etc.) in a 1911, 1896/11, K31, etc.

I have a K31 and it's my favorite rifle. Would like a 1911 or 96/11 but they've become a bit scarcer in the last year or so.

So has the ammo. GP11 is much harder to find than even six months ago. It was never cheap like 7.62x64R or even 8mm Mauser, but now $0.50/round is a good price and I'm buying whatever I can find at that price (and saving my brass, and my pennies for a reloading setup).

I can't answer the serial number question. Suggest you try the Swiss Rifles forum. Google it, or PM me if you can't find it and I'll find the URL for you.

Good luck with your purchase.
 
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From the serial number, it sounds like it might actually be a Model 1889/96, manufactured in 1910. Of course, as always, pictures would be a big help in knowing for sure.

And yes, modern 7.5 Swiss is fine in these rifles. That would not be the case with the model 1889, which needs to have ammo that is loaded down. The Model 1889 DOES have a 12-round magazine, which is kinda neat.

Here's a post with my Swiss collection:

http://www.northeastshooters.com/vb...s/31775-my-swiss-rifle-collection-so-far.html

*
 
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Good information, especially about the ammo. I'm not reloading yet but I have some of what I need to start. So I take it 7.5 Swiss is kind of a dying cartridge or at least specialized.... When I saw the serial number range not lining up with the 1911's on the dates page I was wondering if it was an updated rifle..... Here's the auction.....

SWISS 7.5 SCHMIDT RUBIN 1911 LONG RIFLR NO IMPORT : Semi Auto Rifles at GunBroker.com

pix434315872.jpg

pix506270388.jpg

pix862033819.jpg
 
Karl said:
Good information, especially about the ammo. I'm not reloading yet but I have some of what I need to start. So I take it 7.5 Swiss is kind of a dying cartridge or at least specialized.... When I saw the serial number range not lining up with the 1911's on the dates page I was wondering if it was an updated rifle..... Here's the auction.....

SWISS 7.5 SCHMIDT RUBIN 1911 LONG RIFLR NO IMPORT : Semi Auto Rifles at GunBroker.com

pix434315872.jpg

pix506270388.jpg

pix862033819.jpg
Click to expand...

$400 seems high for that rifle, but they are drying up to some extent so I don't know.
 
OK, the pictures definitely clear things up. What you have here is a Model 1896/11. The telltale sign is the pistol grip that is grafted to the stock. The Swiss wanted to update the 1896 rifles to 1911 standards, so they used existing 1896 rifles (the serial number would place it at 1910 manufacture date) and created a "new" model. Here are the details from the swissrifles website:

In 1913, as a result of a decree signed on January 13, 1911, conversion of 1896-type rifles to approximate to the 1911 pattern began in the Eidgenoessische Waffenfabrik. By March 1, 1920, 135,770 rifles had been altered. They had four-groove rifling and chambered the Ordonnanz 11 cartridge.

As might be expected, this model markedly resembled the Model 1911 Rifle, some of the differences being:


- rounded buttplate on the M96/11, flat on the M11;
- pistol grip worked into the stock on the M96/11, integral to the stock on the M11;
- cutouts on the bottom of the receiver for older magazines on the M96/11, none on the M11 (picture);
- slightly differently shaped trigger guard on the M96/11 than on the M11 (picture).

The buttplate is curved and the pistol grip "implant" is definitely present - Model 1896/11.

$400 is not too bad IF the bore is in excellent condition. The Swiss took care of their guns, so there's a good chance. The Manowar pricing website puts it at $350 - $500 for an example in Very Good Condition:

http://rangingthoughts.org/manowar/prices.asp


Good Luck!

*
 
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I load my own but GP-11 works well in mine as well as PRVI and FM. No need to buy expensive Norma. These are very accurate rifles.
 
The Berdan primed GP-11 cases can be reloaded, a friend and fellow collector does that, too.
It's just a bit cumbersome but he doesn't mind. I'm sitting on some cases of GP-11 which
will last me for some more years to come.
 
excellent brass I have a small pile just need some primers. some shotgun primers are said to work. I don't know how your calculating these prices in todays market fever your way low.

e0991a65.jpg
 
The GP-11 brass is easily decapped and you can still find the .217" berdan primers, so don't toss this brass, reload it.
Granted, it's a bit more work, but it's perfectly good brass to keep feeding your K31 and siblings.
The simple Lee 30 caliber decapping punch (sans pin) and water is all it takes to decap.
 
96/11 with little description of bore or finish,,hmmmm. Wood looks a little rough too but still very accurate rifles.

K31 with cracked stocks but how bad are they cracked?
 
BrianK said:
Apologies if I did something wrong. Are we not supposed to post references to sellers?
Click to expand...

correct

http://www.northeastshooters.com/vb...-ship-c-r-items-ammo-guns-c-r-holders-ma.html

I don't care about Samco. They wrote us off and stopped shipping guns and ammo to MA C&R holders years ago. But every now and then a C&R distributor crosses Massachusetts off their list because of a letter they received form the MA AG's office threatening legal action if they sell guns/ammo to MA residents.
 
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