Sales tax on transferred guns??????

I think some of these dealers are figuring that they're missing out on local sales because of the internet. They're looking for a way to cash in and they think they've found it. It's more of a punishment to the customer, "Here, take that!"
 
JollyRoger said:
I think that I need to clarify my original post

I bought a gun (preban Glock 31) from an out of state dealer who shipped it to "my" FFL in Westport. The dealer in Westport charged me $50 for the transfer (rip off) AND charged me sales tax on the purchase price (~$469) that I paid to the out of state dealer (I suspect that he was padding his profits). This added $75 to the price I paid

Sorry if I confused everyone.......
Click to expand...

Then please re-read my post from earlier....

Lynne said:
I'd go back and show him the print out of the MDOR tax law. THEN I'd ask for my money back. Depending on his answer/attitude, then I'd drop a dime...oh wait, it's a quarter now.
Click to expand...

What he did was WRONG. Go get your money back. Len posted the link for the MDOR hand book. Print out the part that says what services are taxed and have that in hand when you go see him. Then, if he doesn't IMMEDIATELY refund what he pilferred out of your poclet, contact MDOR and let them know.
 
Yea, that doesn't surprise me. Richie seems like a pretty good guy but I've caught him in situations before when he knew he was wrong and I was aware of it. He just would give a smart smirk and shut up. I would just go back there and see if he realizes he was wrong, or realizes you know what the hell you are talking about. Go back there or just contact the MDOR about it, I sure as hell would. $50 is a rip off for a transfer to begin with. I just did a transfer from another MA resident at a sport shop in New Bedford, right on the Dartmouth line. He charged $35, and a short time ago I was told he charged $25. I hate to screw it to a local dealer but I know Richies character and tend to stay away from there. Many times I feel like they are trying to take advantage of me because they think I don't know better, too bad that I do. ::Steps off soap box::
 
Dealers in MA shouldn't be collecting tax at all on transfers.

However... I'm friends with a few small dealers, and when the DOR comes knocking looking for tax money, they could care less about the law. All they know is you got in a gun, and then it went out. It didn't cost the person buying it $0.00. They want some tax paid.

Obviously this wouldn't hold up in court. But for most dealers its easier to pay the settlement amount, and move on with life.

--EasyD
 
DOR frequently does not play by their own rules/laws.

When I got one of my Sales & Use Tax Registration Certificates, I went to DOR HQ and asked them for a copy of the law (equivalent to the booklet today that I posted the URL for). They refused to give me the info, just told me to charge tax on "everything" (I was offering a service and the material part was minuscule, ~$5 on a $75 sale)! I insisted and the DOR clown told me that "I wouldn't understand it anyway." I told him I wasn't leaving without it and if I had questions, my fiancée (at that time, now Wife) had two Uncles who were tax attorneys to explain it to me. He grumbled and I left with a copy of the law, tax certificate and the card with the tax amounts on it.

DOR may come knocking but they will only want tax on the sales of goods, not services. If an FFL mounts a scope for you and charges you $25, he neither collects nor is expected to pay sales tax on that money.

Besides, we send in the DOR sales tax forms (annually, quarterly, monthly or more frequently depending on volume) ourselves, nobody comes knocking looking for checks. That's straight BS if anyone ever told you that.
 
EasyD said:
Dealers in MA shouldn't be collecting tax at all on transfers.

However... I'm friends with a few small dealers, and when the DOR comes knocking looking for tax money, they could care less about the law. All they know is you got in a gun, and then it went out. It didn't cost the person buying it $0.00. They want some tax paid.

Obviously this wouldn't hold up in court. But for most dealers its easier to pay the settlement amount, and move on with life.

--EasyD
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The FFL's log book has NOTHING to due with sales, and should be no basis for figuring tax.
 
icyclefar said:
The FFL's log book has NOTHING to due with sales, and should be no basis for figuring tax.
Click to expand...

+1000.

In an FFLs transaction log, there is no discernment between a transfer
which is also a sale and a transfer which is just a transfer.... or for that
matter, a transfer which is an internet purchase. The log doesn't
care about any of that, it only cares about the gun, where it came
from, and where it went to, that's it. Monetary values and the
like aren't even recorded in the log.

And further down the chain... MDOR doesn't even have a right to
even look at that data, or would ever be able to see it without using some
sort of legal overhead (eg, a subpeona).


-Mike
 
95blklsc said:
Yea, that doesn't surprise me. Richie seems like a pretty good guy but I've caught him in situations before when he knew he was wrong and I was aware of it. He just would give a smart smirk and shut up. I would just go back there and see if he realizes he was wrong, or realizes you know what the hell you are talking about. Go back there or just contact the MDOR about it, I sure as hell would. $50 is a rip off for a transfer to begin with. I just did a transfer from another MA resident at a sport shop in New Bedford, right on the Dartmouth line. He charged $35, and a short time ago I was told he charged $25. I hate to screw it to a local dealer but I know Richies character and tend to stay away from there. Many times I feel like they are trying to take advantage of me because they think I don't know better, too bad that I do. ::Steps off soap box::
Click to expand...

IMO people can charge whatever they want for transfers- because we
can always choose to simply not pay the fee and do business
elsewhere, etc.

The problem with this "sales tax" ruse is it's typically done in a VERY
sleazy manner. Often times you'll ask the FFL.... "what are your
fees"? and then they say $25, or whatever, and then once they have
recieved the gun and you show up to pick it up, thats when they pull
out the "fake tax baton" and try to ram it up your rear end... because they
KNOW that you're jonesing for the gun at this point and would rather just
pay their extortion than have to pay to send it back.

I guess what I'm getting at, is the guy that charges $50 for a transfer,
WITH NO OTHER FEES, even though that fee sucks, at least the guy
is being honest about how much money he wants to get; compared to
the slimeballs that charge sales tax on transfers.

-Mike
 
When I had my Para transfered from KTP I paid Carl a transfer fee that's it
Rule of thumb if you buy it out of state via the mail or phone there is no sales tax
 
drgrant said:
IMO people can charge whatever they want for transfers- because we
can always choose to simply not pay the fee and do business
elsewhere, etc.

The problem with this "sales tax" ruse is it's typically done in a VERY
sleazy manner. Often times you'll ask the FFL.... "what are your
fees"? and then they say $25, or whatever, and then once they have
recieved the gun and you show up to pick it up, thats when they pull
out the "fake tax baton" and try to ram it up your rear end... because they
KNOW that you're jonesing for the gun at this point and would rather just
pay their extortion than have to pay to send it back.

I guess what I'm getting at, is the guy that charges $50 for a transfer,
IWITH NO OTHER FEES, even though that fee sucks, at least the guy
is being honest about how much money he wants to get; compared to
the slimeballs that charge sales tax on transfers.

-Mike
Click to expand...

It is sleezy when the guy charges $50 for the transfer and then adds the tax onto it later....using a sentence like...."oh, by the way, I have to charge sales tax on the purchase price price of the gun"..... we live and learn.
 
icyclefar said:
If your payment was made to the "out of state dealer" NO TAX WAS DUE

The transfer is a SERVICE, no tax due there.

The only way to create a "taxable event" is if you paid the LOCAL DEALER the $469 for the gun.


As a side note .......... does anyone recall the dealer who handled the transfers for the guns won at the NRA banquet ............ that dealer hit each "WINNER" with a $50 tranfer fee ........... I think it was in the same part of the state.
Click to expand...

Actually this isn't true.

In Massachusetts, a "sales" tax is due on any retail sale within the state, and is collected by the seller. A "use" tax is due on any sale outside the state where the property is brought back into the state, but it is paid by the buyer, not collected by the seller. So a tax is "due."

The really interesting question is whether your FFL is reporting the "sales" tax he collected on his quarterly returns. I doubt it, in which case he is engaging in a fraud.
 
icyclefar said:
As a side note .......... does anyone recall the dealer who handled the transfers for the guns won at the NRA banquet ............ that dealer hit each "WINNER" with a $50 tranfer fee ........... I think it was in the same part of the state.
Click to expand...
The Gun Room on Rt 9 in Shrewsbury. Think the thread was titled something like "PSA re: Gun Room". And the thread said that they charged $25, IIRC.

No matter. I won't go there any more anyway.
 
I bought a Colt Three Five Seven from them years ago... first, last & ONLY gun I'll ever buy from them. This was before I ever learned that barrels could wear out... it was a worn out POS. I've also bought some ammo from them when I was in a hurry and there were the closest shop open.

I really do NOT like the way I'm treat there, so I won't go in again.
 
I've confirmed that what I stated in this thread is true, this was from a discussion on this matter (and some other items raised to me in some private Emails) with someone who has an inside track wrt what it going on. Said person requested to remain anonymous, and I promised to respect that request.
 
RKG said:
Actually this isn't true.

In Massachusetts, a "sales" tax is due on any retail sale within the state, and is collected by the seller. A "use" tax is due on any sale outside the state where the property is brought back into the state, but it is paid by the buyer, not collected by the seller. So a tax is "due."

The really interesting question is whether your FFL is reporting the "sales" tax he collected on his quarterly returns. I doubt it, in which case he is engaging in a fraud.
Click to expand...

Again ........ the FFL doing the transfer is NOT a party to the sale.

Is a tax actualy due from the BUYER to the Commiewealth of Taxachusetts ........ thats between you and the DOR. [wink]
 
icyclefar said:
Again ........ the FFL doing the transfer is NOT a party to the sale.

Is a tax actualy due from the BUYER to the Commiewealth of Taxachusetts ........ thats between you and the DOR. [wink]
Click to expand...

1. I agree that the "transfer" from the local FFL to the purchaser is not a taxable event.

2. However, the reason that is true is because the purchaser has already purchased the weapon from the seller, and that purchase is a taxable event if the purchaser is a Massachusetts resident and causes the purchased property to be brought into Massachusetts.

3. The tax due is a "use" tax, not a "sales" tax, and the FFL is not a party to the taxable event and has no obligation (or right) to collect the tax.

4. The use tax, rather, is reported by a Massachusetts resident on Line 33 of his Form 1, and is added to the amount of his income tax.
 
Last edited:
What a timely subject! I just bought a handgun yesterday in NH and would've also paid the sales tax to the FFL if it hadn't been for this thread. Just one other way this forum is an incredible resource and why everyone should buy a membership!

After reading this thread, I printed it out in its entirety along with the Guide to Sales and Usage Tax booklet (Thanks Len), highlighted the pertinent parts of the thread, and brought it with me.

The FFL was actually appreciative about the info. He told me he's been collecting the sales tax and sending it to the DOR quarterly, because that's what the droid he talked to on the phone told him to do. I had the feeling he was on the level, and he even came down to the range afterwards to shoot with me and EddieCoyle. I gave him an invite to join the forum and left the printout of this thread with him. Of course, I'm not sure how the problem of all those collected funds he's been sending to the DOR could be resolved easily.
 
Good going Mark!

What DOR told me is that there is an "abatement form" which the DEALER has to file with DOR to get the money back and "clear it off his books" with DOR. The Dealer is responsible for reimbursing the customer.

This situation happened to me at Wal-Mart (never resolved) and Law Enforcement Supply in Waltham (ugly situation, resolved and Walter Duddy permanently lost my business - read about it in the Dealer forum thread on his shop).
 
IMO, this thread should get stickied, maybe with a clearer
title (maybe in the firearms section?)so that others can benefit
from it, and perhaps correct the wrongdoings of FFLs.... at
least in some cases itll help correct them- and in other cases
it will out the others.

This question comes up like 9000 times on various boards
that I'm on.


-Mike
 
I know this thread has not been used in a while but I was just looking at the list of dealers that www.Gunbroker.com provides for people to find a place to transfer and after putting in my zip code there were a great many dealers listed who clearly stated that they collect "Sales Tax". (http://www.gunbroker.com/User/DealerNetwork.asp)

I know a couple of them and they have always come off as trustworthy, I hope they are just confused, but I still will not use them.
 
MagnumMike said:
I know this thread has not been used in a while but I was just looking at the list of dealers that www.Gunbroker.com provides for people to find a place to transfer and after putting in my zip code there were a great many dealers listed who clearly stated that they collect "Sales Tax". (http://www.gunbroker.com/User/DealerNetwork.asp)

I know a couple of them and they have always come off as trustworthy, I hope they are just confused, but I still will not use them.
Click to expand...

I see several are stating plus sales tax.

One says - state law.

Others are showing plus 7% sales tax !

WTH ???????????????


I got in a rather heated debate over this with a local dealer. He insists it's a state law.
 

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