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Remington and Sandy Hook

Hoover said:
I remember that. He was a disturbed kid and she absolutely should never have put him near firearms. The insane thing with the lawsuit, even if Remington was marketing guns in the way the scumbag lawyers claim, it’s irrelevant because the shooter was never the buyer of the rifle and additionally there no evidence Lanza ever saw the advertisements.

Should have been laughed out of court the first day.
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Exactly but know that it never went to court. This was a settlement in response to a lawsuit that the suits determined would be lost. Problem is Connecticut has more intense moonbattery than Mass. Had this gone to court, a jury award could have been double.
 
Eddie_Valiant said:
Exactly but know that it never went to court. This was a settlement in response to a lawsuit that the suits determined would be lost. Problem is Connecticut has more intense moonbattery than Mass. Had this gone to court, a jury award could have been double.
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At some point we have to acknowledge that This Land Is Their Land. [crying]
 
Eddie_Valiant said:
Exactly but know that it never went to court. This was a settlement in response to a lawsuit that the suits determined would be lost. Problem is Connecticut has more intense moonbattery than Mass. Had this gone to court, a jury award could have been double.
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Trial court verdicts are reversed by appeals courts all the time. A jury may award a huge some for spilled coffee, etc but the appeals courts toss them. The jury award always get publicized but the appeals reversal rarely does.
 
I don't think they're going to get paid a dime. Remington went bankrupt. The company was carved up like a Thanksgiving turkey and its assets and brand(s) were sold off to seven different companies. Big Green is no more. As in, the named party as a defendant in the lawsuit no longer exists.

Saying insurance companies will pay implies that the insurance premiums were paid up.... They weren't...
 
ThePreBanMan said:
I don't think they're going to get paid a dime. Remington went bankrupt. The company was carved up like a Thanksgiving turkey and its assets and brand(s) were sold off to seven different companies. Big Green is no more. As in, the named party as a defendant in the lawsuit no longer exists.
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Not from Remington, from its insurers. They're still on the hook as they were underwriting at the time it happened.
 
Some facts to chew on:

- If Remington had a paid-up insurance policy at the time of Sandy Hook, that insurance company is on the hook to pay out.

- If you carry insurance, the decision to fight or pay up is not yours, but is strictly up to the insurance company! All policies have that wording in them, giving them the right to settle regardless of the merits of the claim. Insurance companies are more willing to pay out and move on than pay unending legal fees for a long, drawn out court battle.

I'll give you a personal example of this:

Back just before MA went to no-fault auto insurance, another driver blew a stop sign and drove into the side of my car. He never filed an accident report, his DL listed an empty lot in Roxbury for his address, etc. He hired a lawyer and doctor to file a lawsuit against me for bodily injury. My insurance company told me to my face that the doctor and lawyer were well known to them for fraudulent claims. The guy refused to go to a doctor that my insurance company wanted him to see. My company told me that they were going to pay him off to make him go away. I warned them that I would turn my company into the AG's office if they did that, as I have no tolerance for fraud. A year later when I had reason to visit my insurance company's office, when they opened my file folder I saw the copy of the check they sent him. I reported them to the AG's insurance fraud bureau and dropped the company. However, I have learned that this is SOP in the insurance industry.
 
Len-2A Training said:
Some facts to chew on:

- If Remington had a paid-up insurance policy at the time of Sandy Hook, that insurance company is on the hook to pay out.

- If you carry insurance, the decision to fight or pay up is not yours, but is strictly up to the insurance company! All policies have that wording in them, giving them the right to settle regardless of the merits of the claim. Insurance companies are more willing to pay out and move on than pay unending legal fees for a long, drawn out court battle.

I'll give you a personal example of this:

Back just before MA went to no-fault auto insurance, another driver blew a stop sign and drove into the side of my car. He never filed an accident report, his DL listed an empty lot in Roxbury for his address, etc. He hired a lawyer and doctor to file a lawsuit against me for bodily injury. My insurance company told me to my face that the doctor and lawyer were well known to them for fraudulent claims. The guy refused to go to a doctor that my insurance company wanted him to see. My company told me that they were going to pay him off to make him go away. I warned them that I would turn my company into the AG's office if they did that, as I have no tolerance for fraud. A year later when I had reason to visit my insurance company's office, when they opened my file folder I saw the copy of the check they sent him. I reported them to the AG's insurance fraud bureau and dropped the company. However, I have learned that this is SOP in the insurance industry.
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It is. And there are people who engage in "personal injury" as a form of income. Many years ago, I knew one such creature: she went to a store (Service Merchandise IIRC) and pulled a display case down atop herself.
 
groundscrapers said:
This is getting circulated amongst the gun community and its demonstrating how little they know about how these things work. Remington went bankrupt, assets are all sold off and there is nothing to get out of them that hasn't been carved out already. Remington when it was open carried insurance for these kinds of events. The amount paid out was from their insurer just cutting their losses and getting out of the case without spending any more money than they have already. The insurance company could likely care less about gun politics and is treating this as a pure financial move.
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So, when H&R went bankrupt, what happened to their "assets"? In other words, who ended up with the patents and machinery to make those guns? Or are they still available anywhere?

In God We Trust said:
Anyone would be a fool to buy a gun factory in this current climate. If all it take is one looney going on a rampage to close you down, it’s just a matter of time.
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So, what you are saying is in "a matter of time", there will no longer be companies making guns?
 
Coyote33 said:
So, when H&R went bankrupt, what happened to their "assets"? In other words, who ended up with the patents and machinery to make those guns? Or are they still available anywhere?


So, what you are saying is in "a matter of time", there will no longer be companies making guns?
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Yes. It’s a matter of time before there are no more companies making guns. Unless a brutal, civil war happens, our side is going to lose. There is no voting or protesting your way out of this mess.
 
ThePreBanMan said:
I don't think they're going to get paid a dime. Remington went bankrupt. The company was carved up like a Thanksgiving turkey and its assets and brand(s) were sold off to seven different companies. Big Green is no more. As in, the named party as a defendant in the lawsuit no longer exists.

Saying insurance companies will pay implies that the insurance premiums were paid up.... They weren't...
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The insurance companies will pay the total amount, the 4 insurers negotiated the $73MM settlement, the max value of the insurance policies.
 
Coyote33 said:
So, when H&R went bankrupt, what happened to their "assets"? In other words, who ended up with the patents and machinery to make those guns? Or are they still available anywhere?


So, what you are saying is in "a matter of time", there will no longer be companies making guns?
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that is not what I am saying at all. When remington went bankrupt they owned a ton of brands under that name. DPMS, Bushmaster, aac, etc.... This is how the brands were divied up and to whom.
  • Vista Outdoor Inc. bought the Lonoke based ammunitions business and other IP assets
  • Roundhill Group LLC bought everything firearms that is non-Marlin
  • Sierra Bullets LLC bought Barnes ammunitions
  • Sturm, Ruger, & Co. bought Marlin firearms
  • JJE Capital Holdings LLC won DPMS, H&R, Stormlake, AAC and Parker brands
  • Franklin Armory Holdings Inc. won Bushmaster brand and some related assets
  • Sportsman’s Warehouse Inc. won the Tapco brands
So H&R's tooling patents, engineering TDP's were all sold to JJE aka palmetto state armory.
 
In God We Trust said:
Yes. It’s a matter of time before there are no more companies making guns. Unless a brutal, civil war happens, our side is going to lose. There is no voting or protesting your way out of this mess.
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no not really. Remington had f***ed up financials due to being massively overleveraged and not being able to even pay the interest on their debt. This was going on well before sandy hook. This settlement would have likely only adjusted their premium on their insurance and it would be business as usual.
 
groundscrapers said:
no not really. Remington had f***ed up financials due to being massively overleveraged and not being able to even pay the interest on their debt. This was going on well before sandy hook. This settlement would have likely only adjusted their premium on their insurance and it would be business as usual.
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Sorry, I know nothing about the details. Only that they suffered cuz of Lanzas insanity
 
In God We Trust said:
Sorry, I know nothing about the details. Only that they suffered cuz of Lanzas insanity
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they were on the way to closing before him. It may have reflected poorly on the brand but that is it. People really don't get what is going on with this settlement because they have little to no experience behind the doors of major OEM's.
 
groundscrapers said:
they were on the way to closing before him. It may have reflected poorly on the brand but that is it. People really don't get what is going on with this settlement because they have little to no experience behind the doors of major OEM's.
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I’m guilty of that. I just know Remington is being f***ed by all this.
 
G4Y4HK said:
When criminals die at the barrel of a cop's GLOCK, since the families can't sue the cops because of qualified immunity, can they sue GLOCK directly now?
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Yes indeed! I believe Glock is one of the companies that our beloved Maura, along with at least a dozen other AGs, are helping the Mexican government sue. This shit will become infinitely worse unless we find a permanent cure ASAP.
 
groundscrapers said:
JJE Capital Holdings LLC won DPMS, H&R, Stormlake, AAC and Parker brands
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I was unaware of this, or that anything at all had happened with H&R. It was just silence in the gun community, as far as I could tell. I'm glad to hear it went somewhere. I'd be even more glad if they made a few minor changes, and started producing them again. A simple, affordable, accurate, reliable rifle with interchangeable barrels/calibers would be great. Keep the quality, skip the frills.

groundscrapers said:
So H&R's tooling patents, engineering TDP's were all sold to JJE aka palmetto state armory.
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Oh. Any word on if they might ever do anything with them?


In God We Trust said:
I’m guilty of that. I just know Remington is being f***ed by all this.
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groundscrapers said:
remington doesn't exist anymore. How do you hurt something that doesn't exist?
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I think he means/meant hurt the name/reputation of Remington's legacy. Kind of like the Citation did to Chevy, Pinto did to Ford, etc.
 
Coyote33 said:
Oh. Any word on if they might ever do anything with them?
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www.northeastshooters.com

H&R to bring back the M1 Garand

CEO of H&R indicated in Shot Show interview that they are going to bring back the Garand for general sales. Skip ahead to the 12:00 mark to hear how they are going bring Garands back with all new forged parts.
www.northeastshooters.com www.northeastshooters.com
 
Coyote33 said:
I specifically meant the Handi.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBKdVsSVt5g



View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QZm52eycsQ
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probably too early to know/expect much. Spinning up a manufacturing program takes a lot of time, effort, and task-specific experience. Remington went out of business, and sold all their properties to whoever would buy them. That'll include tooling and documentation. It almost certainly doesn't include any institutional knowledge.

In the case of H&R, PSA bought the name and everything that goes with it. They will need to make a series of business decisions to figure out what has the most potential return on investment. Like Ruger with Marlin, they have to pick something to go first - something that will build excitement and generate an audience for the brand.

The Handi is what, a $300 rifle? How many are they going to sell in a year? How much time will they have to spend digging through somebody else's notes to figure out how to bring those lines back up? How much life is still in the tools?
 
Eddie_Valiant said:
I sure hope you're right. The shooter, Adam Lanza, had a serious mental illness. His mother tried for years to mainstream him and it was her that taught Adam how to shoot. She often took him to a range. As a teen, he played first person shooter games endlessly. That may not have caused him to do what he did, but it sure didn't help.

The responsible party was his mother, Nancy Lanza. Problem is she was the first to die.
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Correct! Mommy was volunteering at the school and her psycho kid was jealous and afraid Mommy was going to commit him to an institution. Daddy left because Mommy wouldn't commit him.
 
MaverickNH said:
firearmslaw.duke.edu

Privatizing the Gun Debate – Conference at Duke Law on March 18th

firearmslaw.duke.edu firearmslaw.duke.edu

Lawyer smell cash in the water after Remington caved, Newsom announced his CA private lawsuit law plans and Mexico sued. It will be a feeding frenzy.

View attachment 580229
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Mexico sued a longtime ago and newsom announced his lawsuit plan after Texas passed in and SCOTUS allowed it to stay in place while the courts hear the case. Neither of these had anything to do with the insurance companies settling this.
 

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