Reloading breakeven point?

[Duxprep]

I was talkign to Qmmo when I got some ammo off of him. He stated getting into reloading in order to save money is the wrong reason bc you wont unless you shoot thousands and thousands of rounds. (esp if you consider your time worth money) Like many of the previous posters said, they reload bc they want to custom tailor their ammo or bc it's a hobby they enjoy.

Yes and no.
- Yes to the fact that you gain the flexibility of what type of ammo you make and when.
- Yes you definately WILL save money on a per round basis (pretty quickly I'd say)
- No to the fact that you'll need to shoot thousands and thousands of round to realize the savings. If you're reloading 45 you're saving around 50% of the retail cost plus the benefit of No Gas and time for travel , no yahoos asking for your FID, no taxes to Deval etc..) It does take time, but any time spent doing gun stuff is time well spent
- Some folks say you negate the savings because you shoot more. Not necessarily. Just because your costs are cheaper doesn't mean you'll run out and shoot thousands of rounds more than you did before.

Thats been my experience anyway.

I'd reload even if I didn't save money. The feeling of making your own ammo is unmatched by anything else

 

[Baldkat82]

but when is the break even point (# of rounds) if you spend $1000-1500 on reloading gear before you even buy components? I guess that depends on the calibers you are shooting and on whether or not you'd consider your time worth money or if it's a hobby you enjoy enough to devote the time to.

Personally, I couldn't justify it. Both financially and regarding the time and space it would take. I have enough hobbies and junk around the house, lol. I also figure, that based upon how often I do shoot and what equipment I would purchase, it would prob take me at least 2-3 years before I would hit even on the initial investment.

 

[jar]

but when is the break even point (# of rounds) if you spend $1000-1500 on reloading gear before you even buy components? I guess that depends on the calibers you are shooting and on whether or not you'd consider your time worth money or if it's a hobby you enjoy enough to devote the time to.

Personally, I couldn't justify it. Both financially and regarding the time and space it would take. I have enough hobbies and junk around the house, lol. I also figure, that based upon how often I do shoot and what equipment I would purchase, it would prob take me at least 2-3 years before I would hit even on the initial investment.

I have about $750 in gear. I'll shortly be loading 9mm for about $10/100. Compare this to the walmart price of $22/100. I'll have broken even around 6250 rounds. I'm expecting to shoot somewhere between 5k and 10k rounds in the next year. That doesn't even consider other calibers.

If you're a competitive shooter or shoot expensive calibers it pays back quickly. If you shoot a box or two of relatively cheap ammo once a month, it's not worth it.

 

[Baldkat82]

I have about $750 in gear. I'll shortly be loading 9mm for about $10/100. Compare this to the walmart price of $22/100. I'll have broken even around 6250 rounds. I'm expecting to shoot somewhere between 5k and 10k rounds in the next year. That doesn't even consider other calibers.

That's not too bad, and this isn't factoring in your time as money either. Obv, it's also part of a hobby many of us enjoy so you'd have to consider whether that is a factor for you or not. I'm guessing, with the more active members of this board it is def worth your time. Esp if shooting is your #1 hobby. At least for now, I'm ok with spending the extra dough so I have more free time to do other things.

If you're a competitive shooter or shoot expensive calibers it pays back quickly. If you shoot a box or two of relatively cheap ammo once a month, it's not worth it.

Agreed. I shoot a little bit each month of varying calibers. 7.62x39, 9mm, 45acp, 22lr, 223 and .30-06. I dont shoot enough of any one caliber to make it worth it.

 

[drgrant]

but when is the break even point (# of rounds) if you spend $1000-1500 on reloading gear before you even buy components?

I spent probably about $1500 on gear and brass I save at least $170 on a case of .45 ACP reloading vs commercial brass cased ammo, and probably about $90 a case on 9mm vs WWB. Several cases of either and it's already paid for itself. Then I just set up for .38 SPL which probably amounts to about $115 a case or so. (again, compared to WWB... compared to most gun shop .38 ammo, it ends up being way over that per case). Run the math and you can see how fast it adds up. As I mentioned before, if you're above a case of year on a given caliber, the gear will pay for itself pretty fast. My entire setup would pay for itself in 9 cases of .45 alone.

This of course assumes one is using jacketed bullets. If I went the full on skinflint route and used lead, I'd save a lot more per case, making the ROI that much faster. The more odd calibers you load for, the greater the savings.... guys who load big wheelgun calibers, .50 AE, and other exotics will recover their money even faster. That's just with the pistol
ammo... rifle ammo is another ballgame, and in some cases, potentially even greater savings.

-Mike

 

[Bogview]

The best way to think about it is to consider your reloading gear the same way you your guns. No one thinks of their guns on a cost per round basis. Maybe you consider the residual value of a gun when you buy it, like you might get rid of it some day (not), or you got a good deal. If you really want to save $$, reload with a single stage press, scoops, etc.

Curtis

 

[BossHarley]

Another way to think about it all -
When I was a young one, I learned how to work on cars. I could do just about any job that didn't require really specialized tools/lifts etc. I regularly worked on my own cars as well as those of my friends - some was to save money -some was the rewarding feeling I got when we were able to get a car running again, fix bodywork etc. Was it worth the time and money I spent on tools? on a dollar for dollar basis - probably not. But the confidence it gave me was invaluable. (of course now the damn things are way to complicated.....)
I feel the same way about reloading. Do I need to do it - probably not. Knowing that I am making my own ammo that is equal to or greater in quality/accuracy as store bought - feels great. And I have definitely paid for my equipment and time many times over.

 

[DukeInFlorida]

I'll repeat myself for those who think it's too expensive to get into reloading:

• Used single station RCBS or similar press in good condition from eBay, less than $75
• Used powder measure from eBay less than $60
• Brand new set of dies from eBay less than $50
• Brand new reloading book (Speer or equivalant) about $25
• Balance scale, used, off eBay about $35
• inertia bullet puller about $15 brand new
• Brass tumbler from ebay about $30, used

Added up, it's a very cheap thing to get into. Everything I have listed is still usable even if you later decide to get into a higher volume type setup.

Don't ever worry about the cost of starting. It's cheap, cheap, cheap.

 

[ochmude]

The breakeven point is when you apprehensively squeeze the trigger on that first round that your made yourself, hear a bang, and have 10 intact digits afterward. You feel extremely satisfied and proceed to dive headfirst into this new, fascinating, and expensive hobby.

 

[Duxprep]

The breakeven point is when you apprehensively squeeze the trigger on that first round that your made yourself, hear a bang, and have 10 intact digits afterward. You feel extremely satisfied and proceed to dive headfirst into this new, fascinating, and expensive hobby.

Exactly!

Another point - When you shoot a case of XM193 5.56 for 450 bucks it's gone and you have nothing to show for it
- Instead , you could have bought a Dillion 550b and a set of dies; You'll have it forever and could always sell for close to what you paid for it!!

 

[center442]

I'll repeat myself for those who think it's too expensive to get into reloading:

• Used single station RCBS or similar press in good condition from eBay, less than $75
• Used powder measure from eBay less than $60
• Brand new set of dies from eBay less than $50
• Brand new reloading book (Speer or equivalant) about $25
• Balance scale, used, off eBay about $35
• inertia bullet puller about $15 brand new
• Brass tumbler from ebay about $30, used

Added up, it's a very cheap thing to get into. Everything I have listed is still usable even if you later decide to get into a higher volume type setup.

Don't ever worry about the cost of starting. It's cheap, cheap, cheap.

True. If you keep an eye peeled, here, eBay, and on some other sites, you can score some used quality stuff at good prices. I just bought an RCBS powder measure on eBay for $63.00, and that was with both the small and large rotors. It was in excellent shape. Another benefit to buying some of the older equipment is that it often has a lot less plastic to it then the newer stuff. A lot of the items Duke listed will last a lifetime with only minimal care.

The breakeven point is when you apprehensively squeeze the trigger on that first round that your made yourself, hear a bang, and have 10 intact digits afterward. You feel extremely satisfied and proceed to dive headfirst into this new, fascinating, and expensive hobby.

For me, the satisfaction is the best part of reloading. I can still recall the thrill of firing the first ammo I reloaded many, many years ago. In a world increasingly filled with specialists and people who can be hired to do things for you, I find great enjoyment in doing things for myself. If you have a reasonable amount of space, some free time, and a few bucks to invest, I would heartily recommend looking into reloading.

 

[qmmo]

I was talkign to Qmmo when I got some ammo off of him. He stated getting into reloading in order to save money is the wrong reason bc you wont unless you shoot thousands and thousands of rounds. (esp if you consider your time worth money) Like many of the previous posters said, they reload bc they want to custom tailor their ammo or bc it's a hobby they enjoy.

Well, the context here was why I started reloading - it was not to save money. I've seen the wrong kind of person get into reloading for the wrong reasons enough times for me to start thinking of giving up the hobby all together and sell everything I have while it is still worth something...presses, guns, ammo, the lot...and then retire and move south so I can die in FL. While it is possible to save some money loading your own, some of the claims about savings I see on this board (not necessarily this thread) are pure fantasy.

There are people out there loading their own ammo that have no business doing it as they just don't have the where withall - they just don't get it. Just as there are people out there that own guns that are totally unsafe and people that have a driver's license that you know should never get behind the wheel. I read comments by self proclaimed "experts" that say they've been loading for over 30 years or some such thing and I worry sometimes that a newbie buys the BS that gets posted. When I know for a fact that someone has hand loaded a half million rounds or more and still has all their fingers, eyes, etc., I might tend to listen to what that person has to say on the subject. I'd recommend the same to anyone that wants to take up the hobby. And just because someone says you should get into the hobby doesn't mean you should. Same thing for building your own AR rifle. Some folks, myself included, wouldn't want to try building their own rifle as we know our limitations and we also know we wouldn't enjoy the project.

The easy answer: Be true to yourself.

 

[Bogview]

I like shooting allot. Reloading, It's no big love affair. It's not difficult at all. In fact 80% of it is boring. Saving money is big on my list.

Take shotgun reloading for example. It's only about saving $$. Guys I know shoot new stuff in skeet or trap competition and shoot reloads for practice (YMMV). Rifle and pistol loading are much the same for me, except that I keep performance records to improve accuracy. Weather it is on the range, at home cleaning the guns, or reloading, I take it very seriously. Losing fingers, blowing up a barrel etc is not an option and will not happen. This is the reason that I started my son shooting three years ago at age ten. He knows what it means to be deadly serious and handles guns with perfect professionalism. On the range, you will see our pistols on the bench, open side up, pointed down range with the clips out and in the same position. Every time.

Curtis

 

[plumber]

I don't know anymore.
Do I reload to shoot more, or do I shoot to make ammo. I'm in love with both. I'm spending more on equipment than guns. Now I'm swaging. I need a bigger basement.

 

[FreeWillie]

If you're just range shooting I don't think it pays to reload. I can get Brown Bear .223 62 grain for $233/1000. Yep it's steel case and it's a little dirtier than brass ammo but it's really inexpensive and my AR eats it with no complaints. Where I think reloading really comes into play is if you're shooting competitively. You can develop your own load for your rifle and wham! I also think that every person that shoots should be able to reload their own ammo. Even if you have to use a Lee Classic to do it. It's part of the whole picture. What good are you or your rifle if you don't know the basics of crafting a cartridge for it?

There are lots of inexpensive single stage re-loaders out there and I think you ought to find one and learn how to craft a cartridge for your rifle/handgun of choice. It's a wonderful experience and the first time you shoot your own crafted cartridge you'll fell really proud of yourself.

 

[plumber]

I load 223 for about $80/1000 and pistol cartridges average $30/1000, the savings is huge. I don't really spend less money as I shoot a lot.

 

[richc]

I load 223 for about $80/1000 and pistol cartridges average $30/1000, the savings is huge. I don't really spend less money as I shoot a lot.

Hmmm... pistol cartridges for .03 each. For 9mm reloads I spend the following:

3.5 cents per primer
7.5 cents per bullet
2.0 cent gunpowder

Even if you are casting your own bullets, it feels like minimum cost for reloads is 5.5 cents.

Am I missing something?

Thanks,

Rich

 

[plumber]

Hmmm... pistol cartridges for .03 each. For 9mm reloads I spend the following:

3.5 cents per primer
7.5 cents per bullet
2.0 cent gunpowder

Even if you are casting your own bullets, it feels like minimum cost for reloads is 5.5 cents.

Am I missing something?

Thanks,

Rich

I don't want to know where you buy your supplies.
Pistol reload average 5 grains of powder
$.01 for powder @ $108/8lb
$.02 1/2 per primer @ $119/5000
everything else I make myself from scrap.

 

[richc]

I don't want to know where you buy your supplies.
Pistol reload average 5 grains of powder
$.01 for powder @ $108/8lb
$.02 1/2 per primer @ $119/5000
everything else I make myself from scrap.

OK... I am relatively new to reloading. But the best price I've seen for primers these days is over $30 per thousand for primers. Today I paid $32 for 1000, plus out lovely MA sales tax. Rounds out to 3.4 cents per reload.

Powder I'm seeing $20 per pound and I'm using 6 grains per reload. Works out to a bit under 2 cents.

Do tell... I'd love to know where I can buy supplies cheaper. If it is something that can't be posted publicly due to NES rules, please PM.

I'd LOVE to save some money!

Thanks,

Rich

 

[plumber]

Unfortunatly, my source will not ship to Mass.
I do get a much better deal when I buy bulk. The 8 pounders save money. Even better when I can buy pull down powder. There's a couple local shops that are selling primers $31/1000 that's as cheap as I see on the shelf.

 

[Jasper]

i stand by the fact that reloading NEVER breaks even.


the moment you get close to breaking even, you buy a gun in another new caliber, bam. more equipment.....or a fast/bigger press, or a second press, or a new trimmer, or swager, or reamer, or toy!


the list goes on. while it is a never ending cycle (seemingly, anyways)...i enjoy the hell out of it. i load ammo thats specced to MY guns, and load some INCREDIBLY consistent ammo for my match ammo (note: not ACCURATE ammo....CONSISTENT ammo. i dont give a damn what my POI is...as long as its the same every time i pull the trigger)

 

[gerrycaruso]

As others have said,it depends on what equipment you use and how much you shoot. .223 is one of the calibers I load and the cost is 13 1/2 cents per round at the current prices. Thats for a new 62 gr.fmjbt bullet, powder and primer. Brass is free because people still throw it away at the range. .45acp costs me 12 cents a round for a cast lead bullet,powder and primer. brass is also free for the same reason. I load on a Dillon 650. You'll usually save more reloading for rifle calibers than handgun calibers. There are exceptions like the .500 class of calibers. You'll save the most loading for obscure and obsolete calibers which can cost several dollars a round to buy and pennies a round to make but they can involve a lot of work. I haven't mentioned time because only you can put a value on your time.

 

[BIG GUN]

I load 44 different calibers in pistol, rifle, and shotgun. Consider it relaxation.
I cast most of my pistol & a lot of various rifle & sabot shotgun slugs.
When I see current ammo prices posted by dealers & flyers, it blows my mind.
I think nothing of shooting 100 rounds of 44mag on any day but I did buy my components before the mega price increases!

 

[DukeInFlorida]

You're paying too much for each of those!

Hmmm... pistol cartridges for .03 each. For 9mm reloads I spend the following:

3.5 cents per primer
7.5 cents per bullet
2.0 cent gunpowder

Even if you are casting your own bullets, it feels like minimum cost for reloads is 5.5 cents.

Am I missing something?

Thanks,

Rich

 

[drgrant]

You're paying too much for each of those!

Not really.

The only way he's going to get his bullet cost down much is if he runs cast lead garbage through his guns. (maybe he doesn't want the smokescreen?)

Primers are hard to come by, and unless you have a dealer you're using to buy 5000 round loafs of primers from at a discounted rate, you're not going to get primers for less than $33-35 a thousand anyways. That's pretty much the new price. You can pay less if you want to mess around with the (often not so good) wolf primers, though. (I saw some of those going recently for like $27/K or so, with no limit in place).

Powder is also about $18-20+ a pound now, too, depending on what brand you buy and where you get it from .

-Mike

 

[DukeInFlorida]

It's all about quantity.

Here's (generally speaking) how to get better deals, and have stuff when you need it:

• Buy in bulk
• Buy bullets in large qtys when you can get deals on them. Kind of like buying cases of toilet paper. You know you'll need it.
• Buy powder in 4 pound and 8 pound containers instead of one pounders. And, buy it on sale. Buy as much as you can on sale. And, buy as much as you can to reduce the haz mat fee effect.
• Buy primers on sale. Buy as much as you can on sale, and as many as you can afford to reduce the effect of the haz mat fee.
• Nice to have a friend out of state that you can rely on for a shipping address (presuming you live in Mass). That eliminates the non_Mass shipping vendors.
• Use powders that give you the most loads per pound. Why use something that requires 8 grains when you can use a different powder that only needs 5 grains of powder?
• Plated bullets are a cost effective alternative to full metal jacket bullets, for most plinking needs.
• There's absolutely NOTHING wrong with shooting cast lead bullets.

 

[coastie]

Your biggest cost is going to be the bullets. Whats wrong with cast? It is about all I shoot now as it is cheap. I look at my current .45 ACP load. It is a 230gr LRN with 4.1 gr Clays behind. It costs about 4.5c a rd to load. At current prices that same load is around 12c a rd. My primer and powder doubled from 2c to 4c. Bullet went from 2.5c to 8c. When I run through this last batch of purchased cast I will be dusting off the pistol molds and start casting. I figure I am paying between 25-30c a pound for WW after I melt them down and clean out all the junk. I get about 30 bullets a pound so you factor in some lube and that is about 1-1.5c a bullet. Gets cheap the smaller the bullet. Even with gas checks running around 25-30$ a thousand I am still at 4-5c tops for my rifle bullets. Dont shy away from cast bullets as they will be your biggest cost savings.

 

[plumber]

Not really.

The only way he's going to get his bullet cost down much is if he runs cast lead garbage through his guns. (maybe he doesn't want the smokescreen?)


-Mike

What's wrong with cast? Not garbage, I get better consistancy with my cast bullets than mass produced garbage. I have won high power matches with my hand made bullets. If your talking about the smoke, don't use unique or bullseye with a cheap alox lube. Get a good quality bullet lube and you won't have the flying ashtray.

 

[drgrant]

What's wrong with cast? Not garbage, I get better consistancy with my cast bullets than mass produced garbage. I have won high power matches with my hand made bullets. If your talking about the smoke, don't use unique or bullseye with a cheap alox lube. Get a good quality bullet lube and you won't have the flying ashtray.

I'm talking about the smoke and the crud left behind in the gun that makes it dirtier than a whorehouse with a full load of customers.

I agree that some lead bullets are WAY better than others, surely, but it's still always going to be dirtier than running jacketed/plated. There's no real getting around that. I also have guns with polygonal barrels and one with a gas port in it that I really don't want to clog, nor do I want to get in the business of having to buy a bunch of replacement barrels. I also like to be able to run my ammo through someone else's gun if I have to, without getting all kinds of lead smeg in their gun. Running jacketed/plated makes
my life easier.

I have cast lead bullets sitting in containers under my reloading bench. I use them from time to time, (in my 1911s) but I don't look forward to cleaning the mess up after awhile. To me there are useful applications for cast bullets (especially in large caliber revolvers, where real jacketed bullets become VERY expensive) but frankly if I can afford to not use them I do so whenever possible. It saves me on the amount of time I have to waste on maintenance, which I don't like. (lead clogs up compensator ports, and makes guns dirtier in general).

I guess that in 9mm I just can't see the point of running lead, since jacketed bullets are relatively cheap in bulk.

As far as accuracy goes whatever bullets I use (at least in handguns) are "accurate enough". I'm not shooting 50M europistol bullseye, so as long as whatever accuracy I get isn't completely and utterly terrible, I'm happy with it. I can hit the targets I want to hit... with lead or jacketed.

So no, they don't perform like garbage, no, not at all... but they do leave garbage behind in one's gun. Obviously better made (appropriate hardness, sizing, and lube) lead is a great place to start....

-Mike

 

[richc]

You're paying too much for each of those!

Duke,

My recent batch of primers, Winchester brand, were $32 plus tax per thousand. That's about 3.4 cents each.

I bought 8000 9mm bullets, 115gr FMJ, for $600 shipped. These are very good quality, but not match quality, from a supplier that several friends have used with success for years. That's 7.5 cents per bullet.

Powder I paid $20/pound plus tax. At a load of about 6 grains (middle of the road for this powder), that works out to about 1.8 cents per cartridge.

Part of my problem is living in Massachusetts. Most suppliers will not ship here, so it is difficult to get the lowest online price available. And there are not too many dealers locally that stock reloading supplies. It is a drive no matter what I do.

If I found gunpowders in larger containers that saved money I'd buy them. Recently I've bought one pound containers 'cause that's all the local suppliers have had.

If you can point out ways to save money on the above I'd love to hear it! Even if it means a trip to Kittery once in a while I'm game. I prefer to buy in bulk anyway to avoid multiple trips or transactions.

Thanks for any advice you can give.

And even at these prices I'm saving about 50%, and loving every minute of reloading! I've already learned so much, and know there is so much more.

Best,

Rich