Recent Chinese import SKS carbines

[SKS Ray]

The flood of recent SKS carbines has caused quite a stir in the collecting and general shooting community. From what I heard/read, these were rifles imported from Albania and can be sold as C&R. I'm not sure on why the status is as it is, something to do with dates from storage maybe?

One thing I do know is that some dealers are passing these off as Russian SKS models without knowing what they are. Yes some have come in that are all Russian and there are a few Sino Soviets thrown in here and there as well. I had a dealer at the Wilmington show argue with me that they were all considered Russian rifles because the receivers were Russian and he proceeded to tell me how Russian sold the technology to China along with some parts, etc. etc. I gotta be honest it kind of made me want to re-enact the Good Will Hunting - Wicked Smart Harvard bar scene.

One thing I can't stand is to see dealers sell a product that they have limited knowledge on or deliberately mislead buyers with false information. Unfortunately this happens all the time in the surplus market.

Now I'm not an expert on the SKS by any means. After collecting them for many years I've gathered a good amount of knowledge and know something about production and the rifle's history. My understanding is that when China acquired the machinery and knowledge to start producing them in the mid to late 50's, Russia sent over a bunch of parts and rifles. That's why some of the first Chinese produced rifles were built on Russian receivers and made with a mix of Chinese and Russian parts. Blade bayonet models were produced for a while before the spiked bayonet ones were introduced. Just because an SKS has a blade bayonet, Russian receiver cover, and possibly Russian stock, does not mean its 100% Russian. Determining manufacturer and date can often be found using the serial number on the receiver. Info on that can be found in the stickies at Sksboards.com

Hopefully martin08 will be along shortly to elaborate on these.

 

[martin08]

Thanks, Ray.

Yes, there have been a few Chinese-built guns being passed off as Russian guns, and not just here in the Northeast, but across the country. It's not an epidemic, as most dealers do understand the source of their wares, but it does help to be armed with a little knowledge ourselves when/if considering one of the recent C&R imported SKS rifles. And, as much as dealers, some buyers are not informed, and can get caught up passing around misinformation.

And it IS confusing:

- Chinese guns that were never C&R are now suddenly C&R.
- But not all Chinese SKS's are C&R, just the ones being imported from Albania
- They are Chinese-built with Russian manufactured parts, and have the same features and inspection stamps as Russian-Built
- A few guns ARE Russian-built
- And a small percentage are mixed-manufacture, with Chinese, Russian and Albanian parts.

When time permits, I'll offer some clarification and pictures. And hopefully we, as consumers, can make informed choices on our purchases.

Thanks for bringing up the topic, Ray.

 

[speedy]

Is the issue the fact that the source or birth place is unclear? Or the quality? If is a well built SKS I see no issue. I have heard of "ghost SKS" with no stampings (marks) nicely milled SKS rifles with 5 0r 6 digit serial numbers. The importers call them chineese SKS but have the so call "ghost" characteristics. Are these the Russian, albanian, chineese hybrids, with unclear "birthday" place rifles? Are they any good?

 

[SKS Ray]

Russian models have always been heralded as the best because they were the first, they were built well, and with some of the deepest bluing and birch stocks they look great.

When China started production they were taught by Russians using original machinery and parts so it makes sense that the build quality for the first China produced rifles is on par with Russian built guns. It wasn't until they started cutting corners using stamped parts and cheaper materials that quality started dropping off.

When someone would ask me what type of SKS they should get I always recommended Chinese because they were fairly easy to find, cheaper than Russians, built well, and often already cleaned when found.

These new imports are probably still good rifles but the history of them is a little cloudy. What is known is that they were imported from Albania and are basically mutt guns cobbled up from parts that were sent to Albania from China. I'm not sure if anyone knows why. My guess is that they were forgotten about since remaining Albanian model SKSs were destroyed and only a small amount were imported to the United States years ago.

They could be rifles that were built in China or they could be ones that were assembled in Albania. One thing is for sure, the caked cosmolene is definitely reminiscent of the way the Albanian SKS models came in.

Like I said, they're probably still good rifles, but it wouldn't surprise me to hear about head space or function issues.

 

[Neuro]

- They are Chinese-built with Russian manufactured parts, and have the same features and inspection stamps as Russian-Built
- A few guns ARE Russian-built

I am interested in telling these two apart. I got what appears to be a 'true' Russian in a batch of chinese. Rusian cover, reciever stock, etc. Is there a way to if it is Russian built or Chinese built with Russian parts?

Post #59 HERE. Ray gave it a look, wondering if you could too.

 

[NinerMaine]

My understanding is that they are C&R because their serial numbers can prove they are over 50 years old. At some point in the future all Chinese SKSs will be 50 years old and C&R. In fact we are getting to the point where the first M16s will be C&R. I got this info second hand so let me know if it is wrong....

 

[martin08]

Ray has covered the Russian quality and attention to detail. They are the first, but they also are the most appealing to the general collecting population. But overall, they don't function much better, if at all, than any Chinese gun.

Now, how to arrived at an educated decision when considering one of the latest batches of Albanian imports?

First, it is necessary to understand the receiver. It is "the gun". And the markings on the left side of the receiver will determine the Country of build.

A Russian SKS will always have two Cyrillic letters preceding a three or four digit serial number. Four digits are most common. And the letter-number sequence is sometime followed by another Cyrillic letter on the late build Russian SKS's. These late letter-series guns will also have a star on the left side of the receiver

Here are some typical Russian receiver markings.

1. Late Letter Series - 1956 to 58
2. Typical two Cyrillic letters, four numbers - 1949 to 1955

Next, the Chinese built SKS's from existing Russian receivers for several years, from as early as 1955. There are three distinct receiver markings in the recent batch of Chinese guns which are being imported from Albania.

1. Numbers only, with four, five, or six digits
2. So called, "Sino-Soviets", with a Latin letter preceding four or five digits. An arsenal stamp /26\ is present.
3. "Million-series" guns. A seven digit sequence beginning with a 2 or 3, followed by a /26\

 

[mac1911]

My understanding is that they are C&R because their serial numbers can prove they are over 50 years old. At some point in the future all Chinese SKSs will be 50 years old and C&R. In fact we are getting to the point where the first M16s will be C&R. I got this info second hand so let me know if it is wrong....

I am trying to find the link but I believe from what I remember the m16s that are listed on the c&r list now are the only ones that will be c&r. I believe those where made by armalite? Again going on memory....which usually is not good..

 

[Neuro]

So would the Russian rifles being brought in this recent batch be some of the ones brought to china to train with or on?

 

[The5thDentist]

Correction. See new post. Might even get brave and try and post pics.

 

[martin08]

So would the Russian rifles being brought in this recent batch be some of the ones brought to china to train with or on?

No, the Russian rifles had no connection with shipments to China. They were manufactured in Russia, and found their way to Albania (direct sales? third party?). Now, they are being mixed in with the Chinese rifles that are being imported from Albania.

 

[SKS Ray]

What I'm wondering is if we'll see a "discovered" batch of Albanian rifles come in eventually. Finding a low production number like 1976 amongst a pile of cosmo soaked rifles would be cool.

 

[Neuro]

No, the Russian rifles had no connection with shipments to China. They were manufactured in Russia, and found their way to Albania (direct sales? third party?). Now, they are being mixed in with the Chinese rifles that are being imported from Albania.

the importer listed chinese as origin, should it have said Albania?

 

[martin08]

the importer listed chinese as origin, should it have said Albania?

Importation laws require that the "Country of Origin" be stamped on the gun when imported. That is why you might see a "Mosin Nagant USA 7.62X54 CAI ST ALB VT" on a Remington Arms Mosin Nagant being imported from Finland. Even though it came from Finland, it was built in the US.

Same terms apply to the recently imported guns from Albania. Most were made in China, hence the China import stamp.

Just a small note: The import companies make mistakes. One might find a "China" import stamp on a gun with a Russian receiver.

 

[Neuro]

One might find a "China" import stamp on a gun with a Russian receiver.

Looks like I am in this boat.... Thanks.

 

[The5thDentist]

Please disregard my earlier statements. I just looked at it again, and no, it doesn't have Cyrillic letters. The serial numbers are all matching, as best as I can tell, but the number sequence starts with the letters EB. Tula dust cover. Like I said, I'll try and get it disassembled and take pics this weekend.

 

[speedy]

This is also a good resource for SKS info. But really appreciate the info and knowledge from SKS Ray. Always willing to help out and share his knowledge.
http://yooperj.com/SKS.htm

 

[NickW85]

Just ordered one of these yesterday with my C&R. Thought I deserved one for my Birthday.

 

[browncoat]

I am trying to find the link but I believe from what I remember the m16s that are listed on the c&r list now are the only ones that will be c&r. I believe those where made by armalite? Again going on memory....which usually is not good..

The ATF makes it pretty clear in the C&R documentation that any firearm 50+ years old is C&R, explicitly saying that additions to the list are not routine and not necessary for the gun to have C&R status if the gun is that old. https://www.atf.gov/publications/firearms/curios-relics/index.html

 

[NickW85]

Got my Chinese SKS in and in looks like early 1956-1965 by the parts on it however there are zero markings on the receiver except for the serial number and a faint random 2 on it.

The cover is a force match and the stick was forced fit since it doesn't fit the bayonet correctly. Was it common for no markings?

 

[martin08]

It is common to have no other markings.... now. Until the relatively recent batch of guns from Albania, the guns with only serial numbers were rare, and only found as Vietnam bringbacks with no import marks. But there are plenty of them around today - with import marks.

Some of the stocks for the Chinese guns were fitted from the Albanian design, which was longer than the Chinese stock. The cut-down Albanian stocks are easy to spot. They are made of beech with distinct swirls in the wood grain, and don't fit well, with an exposed girth at the front stock ferrule. It makes the bayonet fit look funky. They will look like the following:

 

[martin08]

As a follow up on the cut-down Albanian stocks which are fitted to Chinese guns, the stock in the previous post was fitted with the single-door buttstock trap of a Chinese buttplate.

But some are also found with the two-door buttstock trap of the Albanian design. The two holes held both a cleaning kit and an oiler. And as suspected, these stock also had an ill fitting at the front stock ferrule.

 

[NickW85]

Looks like I have an Albanian stock and a single door buttplate for sure. The wood is very interesting.

 

[martin08]

A small percentage of these would also have stock art. Here is a gun which may have been issued in a local militia near the Xhyerin(e) and Vlor(e) towns in Albania. Vladimir Zeka seemed to be very proud of his SKS.

 

[NickW85]

Very cool. I bought mine on a whim and I actually hated it at first when it came in. Now that I have shared blood and cosmolene cleaning it, its grown on me.

I think I will modify the stock to accept the blade bayonet it came with. Right now it's set up for a spike.

 

[martin08]

I think I will modify the stock to accept the blade bayonet it came with. Right now it's set up for a spike.

All of the Albanian stocks which I have seen that were fitted to the Chinese guns had been modified to accept the blade bayonet. It's interesting that yours wasn't already done. Perhaps it should be left as it? It's kind of unique in that regard.

Any pics?

 

[NickW85]

 

[martin08]

Most assuredly an Albanian stock. And perhaps just a little more inletting for the bayonet. It looks like it could be dangerous on the fingers!

 

[NickW85]

I just found out there is an old casing suck in the chamber. I looked at it thinking that it seems small. Sure as hell there is a brass casing broken in it.

 

[ColdDayInHell]

I just found out there is an old casing suck in the chamber. I looked at it thinking that it seems small. Sure as hell there is a brass casing broken in it.

Cool.