Rare Breed Triggers: The next version of binary type triggers

Thirwell1216

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The temperature in water right now with the ATF is not in their favor right now. It's called "Forced Reset" trigger. Facinating product, looks like they've covered all the legal bases, but we know that probably means nothing these days......Impressive magdumps. Too bad, for $380 it would have been an amazing range toy. Just don't want to get a etter in the mail again looking to surrender the property that was found to be legal, but just to scary for the average person to have:


The video is long, but breaks down the mechanics and the legal stuff:

View: https://vimeo.com/486478480
 

Rob Boudrie

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Would hate to be their lawyers; If a bumpstock isn't kosher then this definitely isn't.
Their big concern is making sure their corporate veil is impenetrable to they won't cough up personal assets when the surrender order is issued.

The lawyer is an ass for not including a briefing on the risk of an adverse BATFE ruling similar to the bump stock one. I rank him up there with attorneys who plead out MA misdefelonies without advising the defendant as to the pesky federal PP issue.

I also find the ethics of the company selling without disclosing this risk to be rather questionable. Sort of like selling a drug without advising the patient of a high probability side effect.
 

xtry51

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This is essentially a bump stock. I'm sure the ATF will continue to give zero f***s about violating the law.

Everyone remembers that they still treat AR lowers as receivers even though it doesn't meet the legal definition of one right?
 

Dennis in MA

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no difference between this and the Franklin


Yes there is. From the cartoon they showed, it appears that the trigger FORCEFULLY resets between each round. Just keep pulling and it'll automatically keep firing. They are playing games with that whole single trigger pull thing and the legality of it all.

A binary trigger fires when you pull the trigger. And then again on release. It's a forced action by the shooter. If you continue (attempt to) to hold the trigger back on a binary trigger, it does not continue to fire. This bad boy definitely does that. The harder you pull, the more assured you are that you are STILL firing it.
 

allen-1

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I shot an AR with a binary trigger on it last year; Fostech was one of the vendors at BDU's Epic Shoot and I shot one of their demos.

It was very interesting - I would need practice to make it run well; and it's not legal in any competition that I'm aware of. The owner of Fostech showed just how well it could be run, he was impressive.

 
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It might technically require a single pull each time but it is assisted so I can see that being problematic.
I thought the ATF had weighed in on this before and said no Bueno. Maybe 5 years ago or so? I remember a product I likened to the RT valve in a automag paintball gun with a force reset trigger just done by a different means.

This is essentially a bump stock. I'm sure the ATF will continue to give zero f***s about violating the law.

Everyone remembers that they still treat AR lowers as receivers even though it doesn't meet the legal definition of one right?

The major difference here is that the bump stock takes weight off the system load whereas this does not. It looks like here you're just squeezing and the system is forcing your finger backwards to reset, a bump stock bounces the whole gun off your shoulder and finger again- the system isn't constantly under load.

I wouldn't call this system a bump stock at all.
 
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snax

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Looks cool. Basically a forced reset system. Personally, I don't like proprietary parts on AR's. You have a breakage or malfunction and need to swap something out, you can do it and still be shooting with the same feel and function.
 

ColdDayInHell

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teamRR

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I shot an AR with a binary trigger on it last year; Fostech was one of the vendors at BDU's Epic Shoot and I shot one of their demos.

It was very interesting - I would need practice to make it run well; and it's not legal in any competition that I'm aware of. The owner of Fostech showed just how well it could be run, he was impressive.


There is always some other AR part I want to drop $400 on but in researching this, in design anyway, seems to be about all you want in a binary trigger. The main feature is the design prevents out running the BCG instead of depending on timing/luck via BCG weight, springs, etc..

I have read as a negative though, the finish isn't great for a $400 trigger and I believe it based on pictures. Then also some do complain they don't work right - suspect it is related to non spec bolt carriers (lots of AR's out there come with variations, Rugers for example).

Sooner or later if they don't ban them I will see for myself.
 

Rob Boudrie

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I just sent this email to [email protected]:

I understand your attorney video regarding the legality of what looks like a very very cool invention.

What is your refund policy in the event the BATFE rules these are MGs and must be surrendered without compensation, and is the corporation retaining funds, bonding or insurance to make sure such refunds could be paid?

Regards,
Robert Boudrie
I will post any response I receive.
 

Rob Boudrie

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Lol it uses a third hole and they think they’re not going to come after people? [rofl]
It is a pre-fab drop assembly with the hole in the assembly, not the lower. Whether or not this qualifies as the verbotten third hole is undefined at present, and anyone who claims otherwise is just guessing (including the ATF even if they wrote a revokable compliance letter)

But there is the matter of requiring a full auto bolt carrier - not a MG in and of itself ..... yet.

Rarebreed seems to think they can bind you to paying their legal fees by publishing a "contract" on their web site: Waiver and Release | Rare Breed Triggers (read the part about how you "agree to indemnify Rarebreed....")

Then there is the pesky matter of Chip McCormick. Although Timney successfully started the trend towards drop in trigger assemblies, Chip has managed to extract royalties from other manufacturers using this technique on AR trigger groups.

I wouldn't call this system a bump stock at all.
Agreed, but they have one thing in common - there is no separate "pull" action for each shot. The both require you hold your finger back with sufficient pressure the activate the trigger when it is in a state capable of firing a shot, and does not require a manual release to reset the lockwork to this state.

The same argument that make the bump stock full auto applies to this one as well. All any ambiguity does is prevent people from getting prosecuted if they are good little sheep and surrender the units when ordered.
 
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I just sent this email to [email protected]:


I will post any response I receive.
In addition, you agree to release RBT (including its independent contractors, affiliated entities, parent companies, subsidiaries, present and former employees, owners, officers, members, managers, partners, contractors, insurers, shareholders, and directors) from any and all claims, actions, damages, liabilities, losses, costs and expenses (including, without limitation, attorney fees) for death, injury, loss or damage of property in any way arising out of the purchase and use of the RBT FRT.

TRANSFER OR PRODUCT: If you should sell, lease, gift, or let someone borrow or use, or in any way transfer the FRT to any other individual (recipient/assign), you agree, as a condition of acquiring this product, to accept the responsibility of insuring the recipient is fully aware and agrees to the conditions set forth herein. Failure to assign this product to a recipient or third party without first providing acknowledgment and acceptance by the recipient of the conditions set herein will be grounds for liability on the part of you as the original buyer.

[rofl]
 
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Let me get this straight... so a regular trigger resets with force x, which by itself does not push the AR into ATF machine gun territory.

This weird new trigger resets with force x+k, which some people are saying makes it a machine gun.

What exact amount of force between x and x+k is the dividing line between semi-auto and "machine gun?"
 
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