Question on being disarmed during an LEO encounter

[NHAtHeart]

We don't know the cop either....I guess we are to assume they are of all 100% mental health and can do no wrong.
If LEO is scared of a lawful citizen who is armed we need to be very afraid of armed LEO.

This, I'm more likely to have my rights violated by a LEO than I am a criminal. In my life I can think of 1 time I've been held at gun point and it was by a LEO while I was committing no crime. Therefore in my life experience it is infinitely more likely a police officer will point a gun at me rather than a criminal.

 

[namedpipes]

This, I'm more likely to have my rights violated by a LEO than I am a criminal. In my life I can think of 1 time I've been held at gun point and it was by a LEO while I was committing no crime. Therefore in my life experience it is infinitely more likely a police officer will point a gun at me rather than a criminal.

Same here, although it was a dozen of them. I have NEVER been "violated" personally, otherwise. Couple cars stolen from me, probably had some minor cash, odds and ends stolen from me over the years, but the real abuses have been by police. I expect to go to my grave without anyone (in a criminal/civilian capacity) attempting to mug me or otherwise assault me.

 

[swatgig]

It's interesting that last year, about 100 police officers were shot and killed, while police shot and killed about 1000 non-police.

 

[namedpipes]

It's interesting that last year, about 100 police officers were shot and killed, while police shot and killed about 1000 non-police.

Statistically, being a police officer is quite safe.

http://www.npr.org/2015/09/17/441196546/is-there-a-war-on-police-the-statistics-say-no

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...9da608-0650-11e5-8bda-c7b4e9a8f7ac_story.html

 

[Chevy 2 65]

How about this one?

[video=youtube_share;4oISJCDCGrI]http://youtu.be/4oISJCDCGrI[/video]

 

[M1911]

Let's stay on topic. I posted the question to identify the legality (not simply following department procedure) of an LEO temporarily disarming someone during an encounter, I haven't seen any direct responses. I know they're going to do what they want, and not having the many thousands of dollars to get in a pissing contest with the PD, I'd certainly not raise enough stink to get arrested in that scenario. I'm not really worried about it ever happening to me, i'm simply wondering if that action is backed by statute.

There are two parts of law: statutes and case law. I suspect this is an area that is governed by case law, but IANAL.

 

[Mark L]

Thanks for the informative responses. The two videos you guys posted are exactly why i made the thread. I've heard the mantra over and over again that you're not going to win an argument with an LEO on the side of the road, and agree completely. I'm naive in that I have very little experience of a confrontational nature (being stopped and/or questioned) with law enforcement. That being said, I don't understand why we can't simply say "No, I'd rather you don't take my lawfully carried firearm without articulable justification that I present a danger to you. I'll gladly wait calmly while you process the rest of your stop, with your partner keeping a close eye on me." I know, that'd be worth seeing on video So our only recourse is to record it and spend big $$ on a slim chance that the LEO behavior might be sanctioned, or swallow it. Doesn't make sense to me ...

 

[Bonesinium]

Thanks for the informative responses. The two videos you guys posted are exactly why i made the thread. I've heard the mantra over and over again that you're not going to win an argument with an LEO on the side of the road, and agree completely. I'm naive in that I have very little experience of a confrontational nature (being stopped and/or questioned) with law enforcement. That being said, I don't understand why we can't simply say "No, I'd rather you don't take my lawfully carried firearm without articulable justification that I present a danger to you. I'll gladly wait calmly while you process the rest of your stop, with your partner keeping a close eye on me." I know, that'd be worth seeing on video So our only recourse is to record it and spend big $$ on a slim chance that the LEO behavior might be sanctioned, or swallow it. Doesn't make sense to me ...

Of course it doesn't. It's because it's oppressive.

 

[kevin9]

I've been pulled over twice while carrying and the subject of me carrying a gun never came up. Do people actually volunteer this information when they get pulled over?

In some places it's required (ex. Maine if carrying under their new Constitutional carry law). Given how common common sense is these days <not> some people misguidedly volunteer even when it is not.

That said, I do remember someone posting here a few years ago about a traffic stop where they decided it was in their best interest to volunteer said info. As I recall they were a designated driver, the interior of the vehicle reeked of alcohol from the passenger, and upon smelling the alcohol the officer asked the driver to step out, whereupon he decided it was best to notify the officer that they were carrying what and were. That seemed to make sense as it was explained. Unfortunately, I also seem to remember that the officer over-reacted, though I don't remember all the details. In the end the driver and officer both made it home alive.

There are two parts of law: statutes and case law. I suspect this is an area that is governed by case law, but IANAL.

Neither am I, but I suspect the case of Terry v. Ohio (i.e. Terry Stop) comes into play somehow.

 

[Bonesinium]

Neither am I, but I suspect the case of Terry v. Ohio (i.e. Terry Stop) comes into play somehow.

Correct. But like the Constitution and statutory law, case law is also ignored. Being armed is only one part. Being dangerous in the other. It's a REQUIREMENT. If they don't have a valid reason to believe you are both, they have no reason to disarm you. Having a carry license is actually evidence to support you are NOT. Of course they care not for the law or your rights.

 

[JayMcB]

The issue here is if you look at this through the NES 'Molon labe' echo chamber, it is an absolute infringement. Period. If you look at it from the perspective of the other 97% of the sheep LEO deal with every day, we're the ornery and potentially dangerous 3%, carrying legally or not.

If I were asked the weapons question, or to step out, I will follow the advice of the LEO who gave the Utah non-res class I took at MFS. He said if you are asked the question, keep your hands clearly in sight on the wheel, look the cop in the eye and say "I have a concealed carry permit, and I am carrying. How would you like us to proceed?" Then follow his instructions, and hope for a reasonable outcome, and for the dashcam to provide witness.

 

[NHAtHeart]

The issue here is if you look at this through the NES 'Molon labe' echo chamber, it is an absolute infringement. Period. If you look at it from the perspective of the other 97% of the sheep LEO deal with every day, we're the ornery and potentially dangerous 3%, carrying legally or not.

If I were asked the weapons question, or to step out, I will follow the advice of the LEO who gave the Utah non-res class I took at MFS. He said if you are asked the question, keep your hands clearly in sight on the wheel, look the cop in the eye and say "I have a concealed carry permit, and I am carrying. How would you like us to proceed?" Then follow his instructions, and hope for a reasonable outcome, and for the dashcam to provide witness.

That's exactly it, as long as you allow them to trample your rights, you will likely get out of the situation unscathed (as long as you aren't actually breaking the law). If you try to stand up for your rights you very likely could get shot or beaten.

If you don't stand up for your rights on the road side, the likelihood of getting any sort of justice is slim as it's extremely costly to pursue a case.