Question on being disarmed during an LEO encounter

[Mark L]

The duty to inform thread, along with memories of LEO encounter videos, got me thinking about what might happen once an LEO knows a citizen is carrying a firearm during an otherwise innocuous encounter. I've seen and heard of the LEO disarming the citizen, at least temporarily, in the guise of officer safety. First question is under what statute are they allowed to do this? Secondly, and I know resistance on the scene, not withstanding the obligatory "I don't consent to any searches or seizures", would be a futile and terrible idea, what are we as citizens of the Commonwealth entitled to do in that situation? Personally, I'd feel better about my own personal safety if I could similarly disarm the LEO, though I imagine pointing that out wouldn't be well received.

BTW, I'm not anti-LEO. Pounded many beers with my Trooper buddy this past weekend. I'd ask him, but past conversations reveal that he's in denial about the ramifications of using a firearm in self defense in Mass (I suggested that arrest and likely prosecution is virtually automatic).

 

[M1911]

Law enforcement officers are allowed to do most anything they need to do (or think they need to do) to ensure their safety during an encounter. As to what you are entitled to do, you are entitled to obey an officer's lawful command to hand over your gun, or you'll likely see his gun from the muzzle end.

 

[the_shootist]

Law enforcement officers are allowed to do most anything they need to do (or think they need to do) to ensure their safety during an encounter. As to what you are entitled to do, you are entitled to obey an officer's lawful command to hand over your gun, or you'll likely see his gun from the muzzle end.

I don't disagree but it's pretty much like working with storm troopers. What's the sense of lawfully owning and carrying a firearm if a cop can relieve it from you for no actual reason, other than his comfort level?

 

[jpm]

how does the cop know you're not going to use it on him? He doesn't know you.

 

[Chevy 2 65]

.

 

[M1911]

What's the sense of lawfully owning and carrying a firearm if a cop can relieve it from you for no actual reason, other than his comfort level?

The sense of lawfully owning and carrying a firearm is because some time a criminal might attack you when there isn't a cop around to stop him.

The fact that a moron cop might disarm you during a traffic stop doesn't mean that you might as well not carry.

 

[the_shootist]

how does the cop know you're not going to use it on him? He doesn't know you.

If you are duly licensed to carry how is he having a gun differ from you having a gun? How do I know he's not going to shoot me???

Playing devil's advocate here folks. I know the pitfalls of disobeying an LEO...just putting this stuff out there. Save the hate for another day

 

[not new guy]

how does the cop know you're not going to use it on him? He doesn't know you.

And we're off!

 

[drgrant]

how does the cop know you're not going to use it on him? He doesn't know you.

Not sure if serious or just trolling because of the mind numbing nature of the topic.

 

[goodzilla]

Because his friends with guns will get there faster than your friends with guns. Oh, and he has more friends.

Also, when the rubber meets the road, you will be vilified, financially ruined, and possibly shot on a whim (with little/no consequences).

How are those for reasons? You know, for your safety.

 

[drgrant]

The duty to inform thread, along with memories of LEO encounter videos, got me thinking about what might happen once an LEO knows a citizen is carrying a firearm during an otherwise innocuous encounter. I've seen and heard of the LEO disarming the citizen, at least temporarily, in the guise of officer safety. First question is under what statute are they allowed to do this? Secondly, and I know resistance on the scene, not withstanding the obligatory "I don't consent to any searches or seizures", would be a futile and terrible idea, what are we as citizens of the Commonwealth entitled to do in that situation? Personally, I'd feel better about my own personal safety if I could similarly disarm the LEO, though I imagine pointing that out wouldn't be well received.

BTW, I'm not anti-LEO. Pounded many beers with my Trooper buddy this past weekend. I'd ask him, but past conversations reveal that he's in denial about the ramifications of using a firearm in self defense in Mass (I suggested that arrest and likely prosecution is virtually automatic).

Going back on topic I think you need to breathe a little bit.

For a LEO to actually disarm you is uncommonly rare, but it does happen, all you can really do is follow their directions and go along for the ride. If you think you're "being played by a numbskull" it may not hurt to politely ask that they summon a supervisor.

Generally speaking though if you're getting disarmed on the side of the road, you probably failed at some point or another. most of the people I know that have had this happen thought that they were "being nice to the LEO" by announcing they were armed, either they failed to do that in the best way or they didn't realize that announcing that is generally not the best idea.

-Mike

 

[CMEBoston]

how does the cop know you're not going to use it on him? He doesn't know you.

How do I know a cop won't use his on me?

 

[robjax]

how does the cop know you're not going to use it on him? He doesn't know you.

The cop can just ask...like..."Hey, are you going to shoot me?" and I'd be like "No".

Then we should be cool...

 

[PaulR]

I'm going to go wayyy out on a limb here, as I usually do on cop threads:

I'm going to do exactly what the cop tells me, without resisting.
Give him, or let him take my gun as he wants.
Then I'm going to have trust in him that he's not going to shoot me.
.
First off though, I probably won't ever put myself in a situation that requires any of this to play out.

.
.
I know I know I'm really weird like that.

 

[NHAtHeart]

The sense of lawfully owning and carrying a firearm is because some time a criminal might attack you when there isn't a cop around to stop him.

The fact that a moron cop might disarm you during a traffic stop doesn't mean that you might as well not carry.

When the criminal has a badge the best you can hope for is to not be dead at the end of the encounter, and if he broke a law MAYBE win in court afterward.

 

[NHAtHeart]

I'm going to go wayyyyyyy out on a limb here, as I usually do on cop threads:

I'm going to do exactly what the cop tells me, without resisting.
Give him, or let him take my gun as he wants.
Then I'm going to have trust in him that he's not going to shoot me.
.
First off though, I probably won't ever put myself in a situation that requires any of this to play out.

.
.
I know I know I'm really weird like that.

I've been in a situation that I wouldn't have expected to result in me being at the wrong end of an officers firearm. I complied and followed the instructions exactly even though it was an unlawful stop. Just because you don't intend to put yourself in that position doesn't mean you won't end up in that position.

Tried to pursue a court case but was told it would be about $30k to take it to court. However because I was not actually arrested, beaten or had my property stolen and I only spent 1/2 hour in cuffs, being illegally searched and detained it wasn't worth the money unless I just wanted to make a point.

 

[swatgig]

For a LEO to actually disarm you is uncommonly rare, but it does happen, all you can really do is follow their directions and go along for the ride. If you think you're "being played by a numbskull" it may not hurt to politely ask that they summon a supervisor.

I was stopped my the MSP a few years ago. The trooper asked me to step out of the vehicle, and asked if I had any weapons. I had a Leatherman on my belt which he took, and promptly returned when he realized I was not beating my wife. I suspect if I hadn't taken the .38 out of my pocket earlier, he would have taken and returned that as well.

 

[drgrant]

First off though, I probably won't ever put myself in a situation that requires any of this to play out.

While this is sound advice realize that sometimes these things have a way of happening without you taking any steps to put yourself there. You should still be prepared regardless. I'm about the biggest proponent of "not providing any PC/RS for a random LEO to stop me other than when he's directing traffic" and doing the whole "these aren't the droids your looking for" bit. That said, shit happens and it's still a good idea to be mentally prepared to deal with such contingencies.

-Mike

- - - Updated - - -

I was stopped my the MSP a few years ago. The trooper asked me to step out of the vehicle, and asked if I had any weapons. I had a Leatherman on my belt which he took, and promptly returned when he realized I was not beating my wife. I suspect if I hadn't taken the .38 out of my pocket earlier, he would have taken and returned that as well.

Did you ever figure out why he wanted you to step out of the vehicle? I've never been asked to do this.

-Mike

 

[Hoover]

how does the cop know you're not going to use it on him? He doesn't know you.

If you were inclined, the cop would find out before he said a word to you.

 

[drgrant]

I was stopped my the MSP a few years ago. The trooper asked me to step out of the vehicle, and asked if I had any weapons. I had a Leatherman on my belt which he took, and promptly returned when he realized I was not beating my wife. I suspect if I hadn't taken the .38 out of my pocket earlier, he would have taken and returned that as well.

Did you ever figure out why he wanted you to step out of the vehicle? I've never been asked to do this... actually strike that, it happened ONCE, but the way it happened was very non-confrontational, and it was because there was something ****ed up with my drivers license and he wanted to show me info on his
terminal.

-Mike

 

[DispositionMatrix]

how does the cop know you're not going to use it on him? He doesn't know you.

How does the cop know you're going to use it on him? He doesn't know you.

If you are duly licensed to carry how is he having a gun differ from you having a gun? How do I know he's not going to shoot me???

Because he's cop and you're little people. You know the score, pal.

 

[swatgig]

Did you ever figure out why he wanted you to step out of the vehicle? I've never been asked to do this.

-Mike

Someone called in a domestic.

 

[xtry51]

The sense of lawfully owning and carrying a firearm is because some time a criminal might attack you when there isn't a cop around to stop him.

That's bullshit. The reason cops exist is to protect myself or my property when I am unable to do so. I don't carry a gun because cops exist but aren't everywhere. I have cops because despite carrying a gun, I sometimes might need help defending myself.

How do I know a cop won't use his on me?

Exactly. The reasoning is the same on a two way street. The cops feeling of his level of "safeness" when interacting with the public does NOT outweigh how safe the public should feel. In fact it's clear the public should always feel safer than the cop, since it's the cops JOB to put himself in harms way. It is not my job as a citizen to increase the danger I am in simply so the person supposedly being paid to help me can feel better about himself.

 

[drgrant]

The sense of lawfully owning and carrying a firearm is because most of the time if a criminal decides to attack you, there simply won't be a cop there to stop him.

Fixed it for you. It's unrealistic to expect that police will be "at" any more than a minority of events the moment they happen. And this isn't cop bashing, either, it's just being realistic. The police's real role, IMO, is mostly to mop up the mess that criminals create, and try to limit their net effect on society going forward.... And to some degree, preventative measures like patrols etc. If a LEO manages to save someone's life in an exigent manner, that's great, and obviously I support that, but by the numbers it's not an incredibly realistic expectation.

The fact that a moron cop might disarm you during a traffic stop doesn't mean that you might as well not carry.

Agree 110%.

-Mike

 

[RImike]

Count down till locksville?

 

[namedpipes]

how does the cop know you're not going to use it on him? He doesn't know you.

You CAN'T be serious...

You need your head examined.

 

[Chris M.]

If a LEO manages to save someone's life in an exigent manner, that's great, and obviously I support that, but by the numbers it's not an incredibly realistic expectation.

The prob is when 'exigent' is really intimidation, harassment and infringement on a law abiding citizen's Const rights.

 

[Glockster30]

I was pulled over by a state trooper on Rte. 1 about 3 years ago. I was carrying and had an AR and several pistols in my truck on the way to the club for an afternoon of shooting. When he asked me if I knew why he pulled me over, I replied, not really. He told me that he clocked me at 58 mph in a 50 mph zone. I told him that was probably because I practice hyper-miling when going down a hill to increase my gas mileage. Then he asked if I had any driving infractions on my record, to which I replied no. After checking me in his laptop and returning to my vehicle, he said that he didn't initially believe me when I said that I had no infractions, but when nothing showed up in his computer, he said that he couldn't remember the last time he pulled someone over that didn't have at least one infraction on record, so he let me go with a warning.

If my LTC showed up on his laptop, he never asked me about it. About 3 weeks later, I got pulled over and ticketed for taking a "bogus" improper left-hand turn. Now I can't say that I have nothing on my record if I get pulled over again.

 

[namedpipes]

The prob is when 'exigent' is really intimidation, harassment and infringement on a law abiding citizen's Const rights.

Yes, but you have Constitutional protections and if you also have MAD amounts of money and an employer that won't mind you taking huge amounts of time off and a VERY good cardiologist to keep your blood pressure under control, you can exercise those rights.

 

[GaryO]

I've been pulled over twice while carrying and the subject of me carrying a gun never came up. Do people actually volunteer this information when they get pulled over?