Question for legal scholars - Oregon shooting searching of students

[Lcstyle]

they don't need to break the phone. They just mount the storage using a custom made device that is intended for this purpose.
it is why you should encrypt your device, and make sure to turn it off if you expect any trouble so that the storage is encrypted.

They could probably wipe the device clean and any data on it, including encrypted data. They cannot however access it's encrypted contents.
In some cases, like with apple, it requires the device be sent to the mfg (or the keys are irretrievable by apple for certain types of data).

Android is google and google's been in bed with the NSA since almost day one. So your android phone (unless its a silent circle blackphone)
isn't very secure at all, even encrypted.

 

[JJ4]

Hypothetically, what if a student had a knife/pepper spray/firearm on them - they escape/survive the active shooter situation. The situation is over and under control - then they told to line up with their hands on their head for a search. What then?

 

[fencer]

They must have had the females lined up somewhere else? It looked to me that all of the hands on your head crowd were males?

And I am not saying it is legal, but another reason to search the phones is to potentially find an accomplice or identify a second event. They obviously knew the shooter was down, but they were probably looking for texts that read " police just arrived" or " college assault underway, begin at highschool"
It is also possible that those being searched were told that if they did not consent to the search. they would be held until a warrant was secured.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Another issue is that while students do not check their rights at the schoolhouse door, their rights (think 1st ant 4th) are less protected than that of adult non-student subjects.

 

[Chevy 2 65]

In certain circumstances, exigency is an allowable exception. Think about a police officer hearing blood-curdling screams or gun shots coming from within a house. The officer does not have to wait for a warrant to enter that house. I'd think the same would apply here because of the uncertainty and the possibly that a shooter might be trying to escape with the crowd. However, I believe that the exigency only extends to the immediate danger.

I'm not arguing either, I'm just stating where I think the case law comes down on this. Someone escaping from a situation like this has two choices. They can refuse to comply and risk getting cuffed, etc. or worse yet, getting shot. Or they can comply and seek remedial action from the court. That won't go anywhere if the person isn't charged with a crime.

I'd agree. Taking the phones of the students would be be a completely different situation than making sure that an armed shooter was not working his way onto an escape bus.

Thanks, So would the same hold true for what happened in Watertown? Did those people have to leave their homes and let the police in?

 

[jibbr71]

They must have had the females lined up somewhere else? It looked to me that all of the hands on your head crowd were males?

Policy nowadays is for male officers to search male subjects, and female officers to search female subjects. I guess this pic just happened to be of the male section, with all male cops.

This pic is obviously out of context. I'd be very curious to know what that context was. Were they going back into the building, leaving the campus, getting on buses, or just herded up and searched? Each of them has a different set of ramifications WRT to the search and exigent circumstances, I imagine.

- - - Updated - - -

Thanks, So would the same hold true for what happened in Watertown? Did those people have to leave their homes and let the police in?

Most people here don't think so, myself included.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Does removing the SIM card from a cell phone remove the call history and text messages? If so, the solution would be to hand over a simless phone.

The most important thing for anyone caught in such a situation is to cooperate, but be sure to say "I want it on record that I do not consent to this search". If anything questionable is found, the prosecution's first argument is going to be "the 4th doesn't apply to consent searches".

 

[Len-2A Training]

Does removing the SIM card from a cell phone remove the call history and text messages? If so, the solution would be to hand over a simless phone.

The most important thing for anyone caught in such a situation is to cooperate, but be sure to say "I want it on record that I do not consent to this search". If anything questionable is found, the prosecution's first argument is going to be "the 4th doesn't apply to consent searches".

It takes a tool to remove the SIM card in a Galaxy S6, don't know anyone who carries it around with them, next police are going to grab it, you aren't going to have a chance to do anything with your phone and if you try they will arrest for interfering with an investigation (regardless if it sticks in court or not). Lastly unless you have video or witnesses, good chance they will deny that you didn't consent. He said, he said . . . who do you think that the court will believe?

 

[roccoracer]

they don't need to break the phone. They just mount the storage using a custom made device that is intended for this purpose.
it is why you should encrypt your device, and make sure to turn it off if you expect any trouble so that the storage is encrypted.

They could probably wipe the device clean and any data on it, including encrypted data. They cannot however access it's encrypted contents.
In some cases, like with apple, it requires the device be sent to the mfg (or the keys are irretrievable by apple for certain types of data).

Android is google and google's been in bed with the NSA since almost day one. So your android phone (unless its a silent circle blackphone)
isn't very secure at all, even encrypted.

I think I will be going back to apple then.