Question #1 BS..

Emoto said:
I don't know about any of the rest of you here, but I have been enjoying the study of and drinking of wine as a hobby for well over 25 years. The subtleties and aromatic nuances and flavors of the many thousands of different wines from different grapes grown in different soils and in different climates provides an endless source of enjoyment, whether it is with cheese and crackers or with a good steak or piece of fish, or at a picnic by a river, or toasting the new year.

I have little confidence in a store where many of the employees cannot even identify leeks to be able to buy and offer a selection of fine wines for the discriminating palate, much less find excellent low priced wines. They will simply buy what the main office tells them to.
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We share the same passion. As I assume you do as well, I keep a modest cellar, something on the order of 1,000 bottles, mostly classified-growth Bordeaux from better vintages. I had the good fortune to get into this seriously in the 80s, which as you know was an amazing decade in Bordeaux, so that forms the bulk of my collection. With a couple of like-minded friends and business associates, I am part-owner of a web site devoted to reviewing and discussing fine wines. Although I don't do it often, I have in the past hosted wine tastings and discussion groups.

I only mention all that to indicate we are very much in sync on many aspects of this issue. Where we seem to differ is in our expectations. As you know there are two types of wine - wine to be talked over and wine to be talked about. I consume lots of the former, and I cellar (and consume, eventually) considerably smaller amounts of the latter. The first type of wines - enjoyable, inexpensive, sound, and well-made wines - are everywhere and those are the wines that the markets will stock.

The second type of wine is a different matter altogether. It has never occurred to me that any supermarkets would ever stock those wines, and frankly there are only a handful of liquor stores around that have them either. I'm sure you know who most of them are and, like me, you're getting their newsletters, maybe you're on a first-name basis with the wine director, maybe you have an account at the store, etc. Those stores, which are the only wine stores I care about, are going to get by just fine if Question 1 passes. Maybe they'll be a bit smaller, maybe they'll get more specialized, but they'll continue to be there selling those wines. As long as there's a market, someone is going to sell to it.

Meanwhile, people who shop at supermarkets (i.e., all of us) will come more to think of wine as a food than as "alcohol." More people will recognize the virtues of wine as a part of everyday life and as the beverage that normal adults normally drink with their meals. In that, our attitude toward food and drink will come to resemble more that of Europe (or, if you prefer, Monticello when Jefferson lived there), where good wine and good food are a sine qua non of civilized society. I think we will all be better for it.

Stepping down off soapbox now.

P.S. I have some faith in the ability of the big chains to find and promote good value wines, as demonstrated by what Costco has been doing for a number of years now..
 
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Dick's post is "spot on"!

Dick, OK now that you've teased us about your acumen on wines, you better post that URL for the reviews!! That's an order, sir! [wink]

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I don't have the time right now to post a long reply on the issue at hand that I want to, so I hope to do so over the next day or two.
 
I can understand why the liqour stores are against it, but come on here folks - it's ONLY WINE that will be allowed to be sold. It's not beer and it's not hard stuff.

Competition's good for the soul and even better for consumers.
 
derek said:
If a grocery store can sell tobacco why can't they sell alcohol?...
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derek said:
If a grocery store can sell tobacco why can't they sell alcohol?

Can someone give me a real ligitimate reason to vote no on #1?
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The only reason I can think of is if you own a liquor store ......other that that NO reason.

PG
 
derek said:
And I see more and more everyday the socialist side of C-pher.. [wink]
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I knew that I could count on you for that one D. [smile]

derek said:
Bob I'm a firm believer that the liquor stores will be fine. I love fine cigars, grocery stores and liquor stores sell them. They don't often have high end stuff or even new stuff. It's never affected me in getting quality stuff from my local cigar shop.
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You should see the Stop and Shop next to me. Like I said, it's one hell of a wine section. And they have stuff that's nice to my palet. Clos de Bois and comperable wines. But as I've said before, I'm don't consider my palate as sophisticated as Dick's seems to be. When you get above a 15-20 dollar bottle of wine, they all seem to be pretty good to me.

I never said that I had to vote no, I was just looking for reasons one way or the other.

csharpdev said:
My guess is that grocery stores will carry brands like woodbridge, barringer and other well known big wine brands. I think the liquor stores will still have the "fine" wine market niche. Personally I would probably still buy my wine at my local liquore because they are more knowledgable and can offer better suggestions. I still would want the option to buy wine from my grocer because sometimes you just don't have the time to make the additional stop or are too lazy, or you just need a bottle of wine for cooking and all you care about is that it's not Holland House.

side note: the last 9 bottles of wine I bought were bought at a winery and not a liquor store.
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I agree, they are more knowledgable. But if you go to some of these large store, the selection is much greater than some of these packies. I don't believe that the stores are going to put them out of business. As was pointed out, I still get my beer from the local guys with the best price on Sam Seasonals... But it could change what they carry...maybe.

You guys all praise how you should support the local gun shops, not buy from Wally World because all you're doing is hurting the little guy.

How does this change your views? Just because it's wine? Just wondering.
 
This issue is very much like why someone can't deal firearms from a residential location . . . but if they spend $200K on a commercial piece of property, super-duper alarm system, bars on every window, reinforce the walls, setup a surveillance camera system, and grovel at the feet of "the man" . . . perhaps, just perhaps, they might meet the minimum requirements to sell firearms!

Same issue, different product.
 
C-pher said:
You guys all praise how you should support the local gun shops, not buy from Wally World because all you're doing is hurting the little guy.

How does this change your views? Just because it's wine? Just wondering.
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I believe most of us buy from both. If people boycott Walmart here I doubt it's for defense of the little guy gun shops.

Patrick Deval will put them out of business with his one gun a month plan.
 
Well folks, let's hear the perspective of someone living in a freer state.

Here in Ohio I can walk into some supermarkets (not all bother with a full liquor license) and buy ANYTHING I WANT. Beer? Sure. Bourbon? No prob. Rum? Por supuesto. Wine? Oui, mon ami.

I've yet to see a liquor store go out of business because of it.

BTW, we also have drive through liquor stores. They are like barns. You drive into the building through the back wall, people meet you at the driver's window to find out what you want and bring it to you. Then you drive up a bit more to the cashier and pay up.

Ain't it cool?
 
derek said:
If a grocery store can sell tobacco why can't they sell alcohol?

Can someone give me a real ligitimate reason to vote no on #1?
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How about the Fact that some of the the Big Grocery Chains are Owned by FOREIGN LLC's and the $$$$$ will be leaving the Country , Stop & Shop for one is owned by Ahold ( Netherlands ) , etc.
Or in the case of Shaws , Star market , Trader Joe's , Big Y , A & P etc. the $$$$$$$$$$ will at least stay in the Country , but Not Our State. While the Little Package Stores are owned by Your Neighbor ,Who spends His $$$$$$ Locally.
Bob
 
Bandit said:
How about the Fact that some of the the Big Grocery Chains are Owned by FOREIGN LLC's and the $$$$$ will be leaving the Country , Stop & Shop for one is owned by Ahold ( Netherlands ) , etc.
Or in the case of Shaws , Star market , Trader Joe's , Big Y , A & P etc. the $$$$$$$$$$ will at least stay in the Country , but Not Our State. While the Little Package Stores are owned by Your Neighbor ,Who spends His $$$$$$ Locally.
Bob
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That is about the most stupid reason I have heard yet.

Protectionism = consumers lose, unions and monopolies win.
 
Man I miss beer barns...

But Ohio used to have State Stores... And that's pretty much what we're dealing with here... The Packies are almost like a state store.

I think that I'm going to vote yes too, I'm just wanting to hear other than "Because they should," why I should.

Like I said, what's it' going to change? I've been in several Groceries and they have beer, wine, and liquor. Just now with a State Approval, they can still sell it?

How do they get thier liquor licenses now? Does anyone know?

I'm trying to find out what's the difference before and after if it's passed...

And that's so far something that NO ONEseems to be able to tell me.
 
Jose said:
Why in the hell should the government even regulate who can or cannot sell liquor?

f*** all blue laws.
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Hell yes. ^


On a possibly unrelated note depending on what the answer is:

Why is a bottle of Laphroiag $60 in Ma and $35 in NH?
 
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Wait, I thought it was the conservatives (ie: Republicans) who are in FAVOR of blue laws, protecting "decency", "the church", "family values", etc., etc.

Now, it seems the conservatives WANT to forgo church, and many other traditional "values" items.

What am I missing here?




Dick said:
Good thinking - let's only buy Massachusetts wines.

Yeah, right.
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Nantucket Vineyard
 
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JRyan said:
Hell yes. ^


On a possibly unrelated note depending on what the answer is:

Why is a bottle of Laphroiag $60 in Ma and $35 in NH?
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Because MA dictates the "minimum price" that any beer/wine/liquor can be sold at, both at the wholesale and retail levels.
 
I vote for anything that is for LESS regulation. The gov't is really too big, with their grubby little paws in everything.
 

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