Primary Arms M3 Multi-Reticle and M4 Red Dots

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CLMN

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Opinions please on these two modestly priced 1X red dots for use on a Bushmaster M4 flat top:

http://www.primaryarms.com/product.sc?productId=299&categoryId=128

http://www.primaryarms.com/product.sc?productId=35&categoryId=128

Folks over on AR15.com seem to have nothing but good things to say about these imported clone scopes from Primary Arms... but I am still very concerned about the following warning on the Primary Arms website:

"Please note that there are a few degrees of cant inherent in the design of the rotating drum that produces the multi reticles. It is noticeable with the cross hair."

In fact, the "cant" does appear to be very noticeable in the photos. Would that 'bug' be a deal killer for you? Or is it something you could learn to live with?

CLMN
 
I cant attest to that one, but I bought a Votex Strikefire from Primary Arms. That thing is great for the money, stays zero and is very well built.
 
I have the M3 Style red dot with the cant mount and it's great. I'm going to pick up one of the Micros soon also.
 
I own the 2MOA multi reticle (not the M4 version) and am very happy with it. The guy's service was very good and he swapped the magnifier I'd ordered out close to two months later when I found a hair in the innards of the thing.

Initially, I had a 1 hour response to my emails, followed by a phone call to clarify a few things, and ship confirmation 30 min after ordering via the web form. Upon finding the hair in the magnifier, I called and left him a voicemail...and he called back around 7 EST to apologize for not getting back to me sooner and say that there was already one in the mail and to send mine back "whenever you get around to it."

Feels beefy enough. I don't shoot the AR a ton, so it's probably only seen maybe 1k rounds, but it's held up fine so far. I don't frequently use the reticles other than the dot, although I'd think I'd only be using the other reticles for close in stuff where cant wouldn't matter anyway. Note that in addition to the cant, the reticles have slightly different zeros between them. I think less than 0.5MOA and definitely less than 1MOA, but it's all a wash as I'm not using those except for close enough in that that wouldn't matter.
 
Has anyone put a Primary Arms red dot on an SKS? The scope I have isn't cutting it and I'd rather have just a red dot but I'm new to the whole 'attachment' game and I know Yugo 59/66's are the most scope/sight friendly
 
MetalgodZ said:
Note that in addition to the cant, the reticles have slightly different zeros between them. I think less than 0.5MOA and definitely less than 1MOA, but it's all a wash as I'm not using those except for close enough in that that wouldn't matter.
Click to expand...

MetalgodZ's point is an important one and one reason you may not want to get the multi-reticle.. The zero's will be different between the two and may be more of a PIA than its worth. I also want to mention that on the vortex models, the multi version (green & red) is dimmer than the straight red. It also has less battery life than the regular red model as well.

Personally, I have the m3 clone from Primary and love it. I've moved it between ARs, rifles, and shotguns and never had a problem. They are very well made.
 
I have a PA micro as do 3 guys that I shoot with regularly. So far none have had any issues and performed well. This coming Saturday all 4 of us will be running them in a LMS carbine course. This will be the second course mine and one others have gone through and I expect it to perform well again. No I don't think they are nearly as rugged as an actual Aimpoint but for the average shooter you will get long life out of it. Even if you had to replace it every other year you would still be ahead cost wise for nearly 10 years.

I will say that I am not a fan of their mounts but I run mine on a American Defense mount anyways so that's a moot point. For $80, I will run it until it dies for sure..
 
zerodown said:
MetalgodZ's point is an important one and one reason you may not want to get the multi-reticle.. The zero's will be different between the two and may be more of a PIA than its worth. I also want to mention that on the vortex models, the multi version (green & red) is dimmer than the straight red. It also has less battery life than the regular red model as well.

Personally, I have the m3 clone from Primary and love it. I've moved it between ARs, rifles, and shotguns and never had a problem. They are very well made.
Click to expand...
I think you are right on the (single reticle) M3 clone. That sounds like the best/safest way to go.

Thanks to everyone for the excellent input! [cheers]

CLMN
 
I attended an LMS Defense Carbine course again today. Weather was crap with about 55* and mainly showers off and on all day. Four guys were running the Primary Arms micro including myself. I put about 700 rounds through my gun throughout the day while it was getting rained on, shuffled, slammed, slung on my body and continuously jarred all day long. Not one hiccup. This was my second course and a grand total of around 4k rounds over the last year + and it's taken everything I have thrown at it.

At it's present cost and longevity I would say even if it died at the 2 year mark I would have to cycle through 5 of them to equal the cost of 1 T-1 site. That means 10 years worth of sites...not too shabby.
 
op4guy - Can you help me to understand your preference (and your friend's preferences) for the PA micro over the M3? Thanks!

CLMN
 
I sure can try. This might get long winded but i'll give it a go.

For me, I have been shooting an Aimpoint since about 1996. It was the first electronic optic I was ever introduced to by way of the Army and what I found off the bat was that it worked very well for me. When the EO Tech started to come about I tried it but could just not make it work for me as the sight seemed way too busy with the reticle. I just happen to find the whole process simple as I place my dot where I want it and squeeze the trigger. I'm kind of simple like that..

Using the Aimpoint M series did have their drawbacks though even over the EO Tech. With the M series you are dealing with a longer optic so it is easier to get tunnel vision. You tend to lose peripheral vision and it can take a little longer to get on target if the gun is not tucked hard into the body where as the EO Tech has such a short tube it becomes easier and faster to pick up. What I did find was putting an Aimpoint farther out makes it easier and less of an issue with this. For example, I ran and AK and had it mounted way forward and it almost negated the tunnel vision all together and made the dot much smoother and faster to pick up then sitting so close to your face on an AR platform.

Then the micro series came along. The micro is half the length of the Comp series and the viewing side of the optic has the glass located all the way on the outside where the M series is inset by 1/4" or so. This not only opens up the field of view but it also makes cleaning the optic much easier. Yesterday in the carbine course I was in it was drizzling or showers all day. When it came time to run courses of fire I would simply swipe my palm across the viewing and and wipe it clear. With an M series I would have to run a finger or thumb into the opening and that would get most but not all unless I used my shirt which basically sucked the water out. So in a nut shell it's way faster to clean the glass in your field of view.

The overall weight is a lot less. The M series weighs about 7 ounces and the micro series weighs 3 ounces. Heck the M4 weighs in at a hefty 11.8 ounces with it's mount-that's a lot of weight on your gun! Both of these weights are without mounts but I have seen micros mounted on a Daniel Defense mount which weighs in right at 7 ounces. That means you are saving about 3-4 ounces overall in weight. I try to keep my gun weight down whenever possible because weight will ultimately translate into fatigue.

The size is also very compact in both height and length. The optic stays lower on the gun which makes the gun less tippy and with optic being the same length as the mount it all kind of square boxes right on top. Unlike the M series which basically is like a 'T' titting on it's mount since a typical mount is right in the middle of the tube. This configuration tends to be really good in fouling up a sling or getting caught up on things where as the micros low profile is smooth and has less hang up points. It also uses much less top rail space which allows the user to move it for or aft on the gun and use certain BUIS sites that were not typically an option due to the length of the M series.

Shooting through the micro is like a cross between the Aimpoint M series and an EO Tech for me. It has the sight system of a dot which I prefer and I am very comfortable with and the short view length of an EO Tech which I love as I don't get tunnel vision looking down the tube. Even though the micro is a smaller field of view (20mm I think) it doesn't feel like it due to it's short length. You are looking right through the site and on target with a lot of open vision to your sides. Generally everything under 75 yards I keep both eyes open as this is all reflexive shooting for me. At 100 yards and out I will close one eye for a better shot. Yesterday we were shooting everywhere from 7 yards to 200. At 200 meters we were shooting man silhouette targets for face shots and I was hitting 7 out of 10. Pretty darn good for a non magnified optic and a guy who hates shooting distance.

Well I was right, that got a little long but thats just some info. If you can think of anything else feel free to ask!
 
The primary arms optics are pretty nice, but for a real SHTF rifle, I'd spend the money and buy a real optic. For any other rifle, I've heard nothing but praise. People have run them hard, and they've seemed to always work OK. All of my "fun" rifles mount one or another.
 

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