Pre-ban high capacity pistol in massachusetts???

trinorbsa

trinorbsa

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This has probably been beat to death here but everything I've found ends up being shifted to pre-ban magazine talk without answering the question.
>If I can find an FFL dealer (or private individual) to ship me (in Ma) a _pre-ban pistol_ that happens to have a 15 round magazine that came OEM with the pistol, is that legal in Mass.???
I didn't I look hard enough? Chasing a rainbow???
Thanks, Ron
 
the issue is not the shipper, it's the FFL in mass that's transferring to you. find that and you're good to go.
 
The guns themselves are perfectly legal as long as you get your hands on it, regardless of age. >10rnd magazines legally have to have been made before the federal AWB cutoff date in 1994.
 
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You can have the post '94 standard capacity mags replaced/taken out at the receiving FFL. Or ask the seller to do so before shipping.
 
Age of the pistol doesn't matter. It's the age of the magazines.
The pistol must be shipped to an FFL that may or may not transfer it to you based on if the gun is MA Compliant and on the roster.

You should call an FFL and ask if they will transfer that gun to you if it is shipped in from out of state.
 
Does the pistol comply with the MA AWB?
Will a MA FFL transfer you the pistol?
Were the >10 round mags manufactured pre-ban?
Do you have your LTC A?

If the answer to all of the above is yes, you're good to go.
 
Jayhitek et all; Are you saying it doesn't matter if the pistol pre-dates the AG's roster or wb 1994 date?
The Mass. FFL cannot sell it to me???
 
trinorbsa said:
Jayhitek et all; Are you saying it doesn't matter if the pistol pre-dates the AG's roster or wb 1994 date?
The Mass. FFL cannot sell it to me???
Click to expand...

It would help if you identified the gun you are trying to get. If it is a Glock, it had to have been manufactured prior to Oct. 21, 1998 for an FFL to sell it to you. Glocks made prior to this date include all Gen 1, and 2, and some Gen 3, so many FFLS go by the serial # on the Glock. If you know the serial #, then the manufacturer's date can be found online. Glock standard mags made prior to 9/13/94 are pre-ban and can be used in any post 1998 Glock as long as you have a Class LTC-A license. Post ban (pre 10/21/98) Glocks can legally be bought from private sellers in MA and you can use pre-ban mags.

If you are looking at a Beretta 92 for example, if it's on the MA list and was made yesterday, you can still use pre-ban mags in it. If it is not on the MA approved list, you can still buy it from a private MA seller and use pre-ban mags in it.
 
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trinorbsa said:
Jayhitek et all; Are you saying it doesn't matter if the pistol pre-dates the AG's roster or wb 1994 date?
The Mass. FFL cannot sell it to me???
Click to expand...

Handgun rules in Mass are different from the magazine rules. Strictly speaking a handgun has to be on the roster, and in the case of Glocks, made before 1998, for an FFL to transfer it to you. The only exception is if there's documentation that it was in Massachusetts before 1998.

But that's just strictly speaking. Some FFLs don't care about the rules at all, and many guns are hard to tell model from model so no one bothers.
 
You're getting hung up on the Mag question. No matter which gun you're looking to get you need to discuss with your FFL first. If he/she will transfer "the gun" to you from where ever, you are good to go. The mags are a different story. High capacity mags are technically illegal if they weren't already in the state prior to 94. But it doesn't matter if the FFL is willing to transfer the whole package to you. At that point it's on the FFL and you are perfectly legal.

Here's the caveat. If you buy a gun that wasn't around before the ban was put in place the mag will be illegal no matter where you get it. You keep that mag at your own risk and I doubt an FFL will transfer a gun to you with it included in the package. While I've never heard of someone getting hung up on a mag, if you do get in trouble the charge for post ban mag will get added to your charges.

The caveat to the caveat. If you buy a gun that wasn't made before the ban you cannot own the high capacity mag that came with the gun. What does work is if you can find a pre-ban mag that will work with your post ban gun. Point of clarification I own a Canik TP9SF and that gun is less then a few years old so I can't own the Canik high cap mags. BUT, Beretta 92 pre-ban mags work in the Canik so I can use them in it legally.

Good luck.
 
Rockrivr1 said:
You're getting hung up on the Mag question. No matter which gun you're looking to get you need to discuss with your FFL first. If he/she will transfer "the gun" to you from where ever, you are good to go. The mags are a different story. High capacity mags are technically illegal if they weren't already in the state prior to 94. But it doesn't matter if the FFL is willing to transfer the whole package to you. At that point it's on the FFL and you are perfectly legal.

Here's the caveat. If you buy a gun that wasn't around before the ban was put in place the mag will be illegal no matter where you get it. You keep that mag at your own risk and I doubt an FFL will transfer a gun to you with it included in the package. While I've never heard of someone getting hung up on a mag, if you do get in trouble the charge for post ban mag will get added to your charges.

The caveat to the caveat. If you buy a gun that wasn't made before the ban you cannot own the high capacity mag that came with the gun. What does work is if you can find a pre-ban mag that will work with your post ban gun. Point of clarification I own a Canik TP9SF and that gun is less then a few years old so I can't own the Canik high cap mags. BUT, Beretta 92 pre-ban mags work in the Canik so I can use them in it legally.

Good luck.
Click to expand...

The two bolded points need addressing:

- NOTHING in MGL requires pre-ban mags or pre-ban guns to have been in MA on any particular date in order to be legal. That was a total fabrication by an a-hole attorney in the EOPS office. The current FRB Director told me that she tried to get a retraction put out but EOPS ignored her request.

- You may not be aware of someone being jammed up on post-ban large/standard capacity mags, but I have! A number of times as a matter of fact (and they were primary charges). Almost certainly the charges get plea-bargained, but they were charged nevertheless.
 
To Quote Len-2A Training

"- NOTHING in MGL requires pre-ban mags or pre-ban guns to have been in MA on any particular date in order to be legal. That was a total fabrication by an a-hole attorney in the EOPS office. The current FRB Director told me that she tried to get a retraction put out but EOPS ignored her request."
..
--> So ...... lets say, I buy a S&W 5900 series 9mm pistol, with a 15 round magazine, manufacture date circa 1990, and it comes from an instate (MA) FFL with a 15 round mag. and that model pistol wasn't manufactured after the ban came into effect That's OK. Correct???

NOW....... Suppose I do the same thing with that gun, only from an out of state FFL, _if_ I can get an in state(MA) FFL to accept the sale/transfer, that's OK?
So long as the pistol and the mag are pre 1994???
 
Len-2A Training said:
NOTHING in MGL requires pre-ban mags or pre-ban guns to have been in MA on any particular date in order to be legal. That was a total fabrication by an a-hole attorney in the EOPS office. The current FRB Director told me that she tried to get a retraction put out but EOPS ignored her request.
Click to expand...

Wow, they did such a good job in disseminating this information that many think it's the end all be all rule. Including many FFLs I deal with. Thought they are probably on the side of caution to stay off the radar.
 
trinorbsa said:
To Quote Len-2A Training

"- NOTHING in MGL requires pre-ban mags or pre-ban guns to have been in MA on any particular date in order to be legal. That was a total fabrication by an a-hole attorney in the EOPS office. The current FRB Director told me that she tried to get a retraction put out but EOPS ignored her request."
..
--> So ...... lets say, I buy a S&W 5900 series 9mm pistol, with a 15 round magazine, manufacture date circa 1990, and it comes from an instate (MA) FFL with a 15 round mag. and that model pistol wasn't manufactured after the ban came into effect That's OK. Correct???

NOW....... Suppose I do the same thing with that gun, only from an out of state FFL, _if_ I can get an in state(MA) FFL to accept the sale/transfer, that's OK?
So long as the pistol and the mag are pre 1994???
Click to expand...

Yes, all assuming mags were made on/before 9/13/1994. Mags are still mfd long after a gun isn't mfd.


Rockrivr1 said:
Wow, they did such a good job in disseminating this information that many think it's the end all be all rule. Including many FFLs I deal with. Thought they are probably on the side of caution to stay off the radar.
Click to expand...

Yes, it was all about FUD. Have a dealer read the actual referenced law and ask them to show you WHERE it mentions "Mass" or "in Mass" anywhere in that text. It doesn't exist. That's why the memo every dealer got (and PD) wasn't dated or signed. It was sent out on 5/24/2011.
 
trinorbsa said:
This has probably been beat to death here but everything I've found ends up being shifted to pre-ban magazine talk without answering the question.
>If I can find an FFL dealer (or private individual) to ship me (in Ma) a _pre-ban pistol_ that happens to have a 15 round magazine that came OEM with the pistol, is that legal in Mass.???
I didn't I look hard enough? Chasing a rainbow???
Thanks, Ron
Click to expand...

Probably easier to just buy the pre-ban mag separately, anyone can ship it to you in MA.
 
Can you recommend an ffl that will transfer out of state pistols (via PM)? I have called MANY ffls, and I don't know if they just don't want to confirm over the phone or whether they're all being extra-cautious, but at this point I don't know how to find one.
 
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If the EOPS office put out a "guidance" letter and it has been retracted yet, I'd think that it's still in effect. That letter came out maybe 10 years ago, IIRC. Before that there was no such restriction. Please correct me if I'm wrong on that.

People have been charged solely (or primarily) for having post ban magazines?

Len-2A Training said:
The two bolded points need addressing:

- NOTHING in MGL requires pre-ban mags or pre-ban guns to have been in MA on any particular date in order to be legal. That was a total fabrication by an a-hole attorney in the EOPS office. The current FRB Director told me that she tried to get a retraction put out but EOPS ignored her request.

- You may not be aware of someone being jammed up on post-ban large/standard capacity mags, but I have! A number of times as a matter of fact (and they were primary charges). Almost certainly the charges get plea-bargained, but they were charged nevertheless.
Click to expand...
 
Garys said:
If the EOPS office put out a "guidance" letter and it has been retracted yet, I'd think that it's still in effect. That letter came out maybe 10 years ago, IIRC. Before that there was no such restriction. Please correct me if I'm wrong on that.

People have been charged solely (or primarily) for having post ban magazines?
Click to expand...
A "guidance letter" (especially one intentionally not dated or signed) is hardly "law". Said letter states that "in Massachusetts" is part of the law when it clearly isn't as a search of the MGLs on the state's website can confirm. Nobody in a courtroom could cross-examine the source of said letter to ascertain the veracity since there is no name on it.

Yes people have been charged primarily and solely for possession of post-ban mags.
 
I'm not sure it matters as few, if any, FFLs want to challenge it. I don't think any want to run the risk of considerable costs in defending a case, or losing one in the courts in our state.


Len-2A Training said:
A "guidance letter" (especially one intentionally not dated or signed) is hardly "law". Said letter states that "in Massachusetts" is part of the law when it clearly isn't as a search of the MGLs on the state's website can confirm. Nobody in a courtroom could cross-examine the source of said letter to ascertain the veracity since there is no name on it.

Yes people have been charged primarily and solely for possession of post-ban mags.
Click to expand...
 
Garys said:
I'm not sure it matters as few, if any, FFLs want to challenge it. I don't think any want to run the risk of considerable costs in defending a case, or losing one in the courts in our state.
Click to expand...
AFAIK most MA dealers are ignoring the "must be in MA on 9/13/1994 in order to be a legal pre-ban" and a call to FRB will confirm what I've posted previously about this being bogus. Now, many non-MA FFLs have heard about this memo and have/will refuse sales of legit pre-ban AWs and mags to MA residents.

An interesting aside is How do you prove where a particular mag was on 9/13/1994? No S/N and no traceability makes that impossible.
 
"preban pistol" [banghead] Unless you are talking about a AK or AR pistol, whether your pistol was made before or after 1994 doesn't really mean a damned thing.
 
FancyGunz said:
Can you recommend an ffl that will transfer out of state pistols (via PM)? I have called MANY ffls, and I don't know if they just don't want to confirm over the phone or whether they're all being extra-cautious, but at this point I don't know how to find one.
Click to expand...

Many and most FFL's will transfer out of state pistols for a small fee. It just depends in what the pistol is you want to bring in from out of state and if it's on the EOPS Roster.
Which pistols are you asking about?
 
FancyGunz said:
Can you recommend an ffl that will transfer out of state pistols (via PM)? I have called MANY ffls, and I don't know if they just don't want to confirm over the phone or whether they're all being extra-cautious, but at this point I don't know how to find one.
Click to expand...

Huh? Are you asking like you're an ATF agent trying to entrap them with some sort of shitty sting operation?

"Hello, I have such and such gun and would like to transfer it into MA. Can you do the transfer for me, and how much do you charge?" If it's on the list and not AG verboten then they're going to say yes and quote you a price.
 

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