PPT and Dealer

[Rockrivr1]

I did some time ago when I had an issue with my computer. They got pissed off and sent it back.

I had the same thing happen with a note telling me to put it into the portal directly.

 

[fshalor]

Person-to-Person Transfer gun portal. eFA-10.


If you don't import something purchased out of state,
there is no transaction they're entitled to see registered.


Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will the FRB register the transaction when you do mail it in?


Do you still owe them the postage on the return mail?

One eye followed the law. Doesn't matter if they sent it back. Law was followed.

 

[one-eyed Jack]

I had the same thing happen with a note telling me to put it into the portal directly.

FTF or dealer sale/transfer? Jack.

 

[one-eyed Jack]

One eye followed the law. Doesn't matter if they sent it back. Law was followed.

Maybe so, but they might be looking to give dealers shit. With the return they threatened me with a fine. Anyway, I managed to get back on MIRCS and do it over. Jack.

 

[fshalor]

Maybe so, but they might be looking to give dealers shit. With the return they threatened me with a fine. Anyway, I managed to get back on MIRCS and do it over. Jack.

Oh you are an FFL though. Yeah. That's a little different.

 

[Rockrivr1]

FTF or dealer sale/transfer? Jack.

It was a FTF transaction.

 

[ADC]

SO, a Glock owned by a private party in MA can be transferred to another private party in MA via the eFA10 portal. If Lindsky's bill passes and these transfers are forced through an FFL, my understanding is, he can not transfer that firearm. Would this be true? Would it depend on the year of manufacture?

 

[DW357]

SO, a Glock owned by a private party in MA can be transferred to another private party in MA via the eFA10 portal. If Lindsky's bill passes and these transfers are forced through an FFL, my understanding is, he can not transfer that firearm. Would this be true? Would it depend on the year of manufacture?

My "guess" is that some dealers would still do the transfer the same way they transfer offlist guns? Not going to discuss those details publicly.

 

[ADC]

It is interesting that all of these "Laws" that choke law abiding gun owners, do absolutely nothing to reduce violence or stem the use of illegal guns.

The UK went after guns. That didn't work. They then want after knives. That clearly is not working. People are throwing acid at other people.
The latest is reporting to LE "people looking not right" if they are buying a hammer.

A friend of mine is London Met LE ... he will acknowledge these polices are not working. Aggravated assault and worse continues to increase.

 

[one-eyed Jack]

SO, a Glock owned by a private party in MA can be transferred to another private party in MA via the eFA10 portal. If Lindsky's bill passes and these transfers are forced through an FFL, my understanding is, he can not transfer that firearm. Would this be true? Would it depend on the year of manufacture?

I suppose that all the AWB, roster and AG regs would apply. And probably any "grandfathering" would go away. Wonderful. Jack.

 

[JNewell]

Yes correct! And for the confused, PPT = Private Party Transfer. That is what they are called in CA which is where I picked up the jargon.

Using California jargon in Massachusetts doesn't make us the confused ones.

My question, if the PPT portal becomes banned (there is a bill coming) would that mean you could not buy a pistol in NH and FA10 (or, more technically, have the FFL do it) it if it is not on the roster? Of course, assuming you're not running afoul of the AW. Sorry if this was asked before; didn't see anythig with a quick perusal.

I think you got your answer, but federal law requires that interstate handgun purchases must be made through an FFL. In MA, FFLs can only transfer handguns that are either on the roster or grandfathered. if the so-called "gun show loophole" (which is what Linsky's bill is more or less about) gets "closed," face to face (private party) transfers via eFA10 would no longer be possible and we'd be stuck (at best) with the current dealer restrictions - i.e., roster or grandfathered.

 

[DW357]

and we'd be stuck (at best) with the current dealer restrictions - i.e., roster or grandfathered.

I don't think that would be the case as there are dealers transferring offlist guns (including private party transfers) right now as we speak. But I'm not going to discuss that publicly or through PMs.
But who knows. If this were to pass maybe dealers would change their tune? No clue.

 

[42!]

Relying on dealers doing something unlawful seems a poor way to solve a problem.

 

[JNewell]

I don't think that would be the case as there are dealers transferring offlist guns (including private party transfers) right now as we speak. But I'm not going to discuss that publicly or through PMs.
But who knows. If this were to pass maybe dealers would change their tune? No clue.

The fact that some dealers are doing this doesn't mean it's smart or legal and can't produce a world of hurt. All of these transactions leave a trail of 4473s and FA-10s and are very easy to identify if anyone wanted to.

 

[drgrant]

Oh you are an FFL though. Yeah. That's a little different.

I can't find the cite right now but IIRC they actually changed the law and put the "web portal" verbiage into the effing
law. I cited it in another thread here a week or two ago. Of course what is confusing is the MA leg website still has the old
law on it.

-Mike

 

[DW357]

The fact that some dealers are doing this doesn't mean it's smart or legal and can't produce a world of hurt. All of these transactions leave a trail of 4473s and FA-10s and are very easy to identify if anyone wanted to.

Relying on dealers doing something unlawful seems a poor way to solve a problem.

Perfectly legal. Though I have to wonder how long it will last until the laws are changed/amended...

 

[one-eyed Jack]

Anything that doesn't fit the agenda is considered illegal by the moonbats. Anyway, I always thought that illegal was a sick bird. Jack.

 

[42!]

Perfectly legal. Though I have to wonder how long it will last until the laws are changed/amended...

I don't know where you get your information, but other than grandfathered handguns, a MA dealer can't legally transfer an off list handgun.

This isn't about what is right or what some dealers do, it about what is legal.

 

[firestorm]

I don't know where you get your information, but other than grandfathered handguns, a MA dealer can't legally transfer an off list handgun.

This isn't about what is right or what some dealers do, it about what is legal.

You are incorrect, but there is no way to explain how without letting the enemy know about wallhacks they may not be keyed into. But they they are working within the law, and are 100% legal under the current laws.

 

[42!]

You are incorrect, but there is no way to explain how without letting the enemy know about wallhacks they may not be keyed into. But they they are working within the law, and are 100% legal under the current laws.

Oh please, we are all well aware of how dealers circumvent the law. They openly advertise selling frames. Sooner or later they will get to stopping this and you'll all cry additional infringement. When the reality is this was the intent all along and you know it.

So instead of playing games that you will lose, work to Chang the law.

And telling someone they can legally transfer an off list gun when you know it's illegal is BS

And if you think they don't know this, you are dangerously nieve.

 

[firestorm]

Oh please, we are all well aware of how dealers circumvent the law. They openly advertise selling frames. Sooner or later they will get to stopping this and you'll all cry additional infringement. When the reality is this was the intent all along and you know it.

So instead of playing games that you will lose, work to Chang the law.

And telling someone they can legally transfer an off list gun when you know it's illegal is BS

And if you think they don't know this, you are dangerously nieve.

For a thing to be illegal the law would have to say so. Since it doesn't, that makes it 100% legal. I'm sorry some people are afraid of their own shadow, but that does not make legal conduct suddenly illegal.

As a consumer the list means nothing as far as legality anyway, there is no penalty for buying every off list handgun anyone will sell you. They are not illegal to buy, own, or possess. The dealer is the only one who has anything to worry about.

 

[CrackPot]

I can't find the cite right now but IIRC they actually changed the law and put the "web portal" verbiage into the effing
law. I cited it in another thread here a week or two ago. Of course what is confusing is the MA leg website still has the old
law on it.

-Mike

MGL 140 128A

"...Any sale or transfer conducted pursuant to this section shall comply with section 131E and shall, prior to or at the point of sale, be conducted over a real time web portal developed by the department of criminal justice information services. The department of criminal justice information services shall require each person selling or transferring a firearm, shotgun or rifle pursuant to this section to electronically provide, though the portal, such information as is determined to be necessary to verify the identification of the seller and purchaser and ensure that the sale or transfer complies with this section. Upon submission of the required information, the portal shall automatically review such information and display a message indicating whether the seller may proceed with the sale or transfer and shall provide any further instructions for the seller as determined to be necessary by the department of criminal justice information services..."

As it relates to dealers
MGL 140 123
Paragraph 2
"That every licensee shall, before delivery of a firearm, rifle or shotgun, make or cause to be made a true, legible entry in a sales record book to be furnished by the commissioner of the department of criminal justice information services and to be kept for that purpose, specifying the complete description of the firearm, rifle or shotgun, including the make, serial number, if any, type of firearm, rifle or shotgun, and designation as a large capacity weapon, if applicable, whether sold, rented or leased, the date of each sale, rental or lease, the license to carry firearms number or permit to purchase number and the identification card number in the case of a firearm or the identification card number or the license to carry firearms number in the case of a rifle or shotgun, the sex, residence and occupation of the purchaser, renter or lessee, and shall before delivery, as aforesaid, require the purchaser, renter or lessee personally to write in said sales record book his full name. Said book shall be open at all times to the inspection of the police."

This is MIRCS

Paragraph 12
"That any licensee shall keep records of each sale, rental or lease of a rifle or shotgun, specifying the description of said rifle or shotgun, together with the name and address of the purchaser, renter or lessee, and the date of such transaction. "

Seems redundant with paragraph 2

 

[drgrant]

This isn't about what is right or what some dealers do, it about what is legal.

It is legal despite the fact that it obviously offends your sensibilities. Read the laws!

Dealers that don't run a puritanical, sanitary ship, though run the risk of getting pinched. Several have because they played too loose. The legal definitions only mean something if a dealer actually adheres to them.

So instead of playing games that you will lose,

Kinda funny because people have been, on the whole, "winning" games since 10/21/98.

work to Chang the law.

In MA we had ONE senator vote against ERPO. Someone pushing a law to dump handgun compliance BS is not happening. The only way that shit is going away is if somehow a court strikes it down.

And if you think they don't know this, you are dangerously nieve.

Of course "they" know it. "They" also know there's not a goddam thing they can do about it, unless they change MGL. Which thankfully is almost as
difficult for them as it is for us, given the typical huge legislative sloth in MA, etc. Not to mention in terms of anti gun BS its pretty far down on the list. The only
reason it exists to begin with is because cheryl fakes (and her "Cabal" that I've referred to here) and probably the AG at the time (Harshbarger) conspired to sneak it into GCA98 as a way to discourage people from getting licensed and buying guns.

-Mike

 

[42!]

For a thing to be illegal the law would have to say so. Since it doesn't, that makes it 100% legal. I'm sorry some people are afraid of their own shadow, but that does not make legal conduct suddenly illegal.

As a consumer the list means nothing as far as legality anyway, there is no penalty for buying every off list handgun anyone will sell you. They are not illegal to buy, own, or possess. The dealer is the only one who has anything to worry about.

No one has said anything different, I certainly haven't.
The problem is you equate selling off list handguns to selling frames. The law defines what a handgun is and and what isn't. My comments about off list handguns sales is 100% correct. I can assure you that if the AG asks these dealers if they are selling off list guns the answer will be NO.

It is legal despite the fact that it obviously offends your sensibilities. Read the laws!

Mike, it's not about sensibilities. People(dealers) can do what they want. It's about facts and accuracy. My comments on the law are 100% accurate. Equating frames to handguns is inaccurate, and I'm sure you don't want the antis doing this so why would you (or firestorm)?

And I can't stand hypocrites, if they're going to play loose don't whine about it when it backfires. Otherwise, go ahead sell what you want.

Dealers that don't run a puritanical, sanitary ship, though run the risk of getting pinched. Several have because they played too loose.

Yup, and when it happens it hurts us all.

Kinda funny because people have been, on the whole, "winning" games since 10/21/98.

Give them time, they will get around to it. They tighten the screws every year.

In MA we had ONE senator vote against ERPO. Someone pushing a law to dump handgun compliance BS is not happening. The only way that shit is going away is if somehow a court strikes it down.

Probably true but letting off the pressure will only give them room for more restrictions.

Of course "they" know it. "They" also know there's not a goddam thing they can do about it, unless they change MGL. Which thankfully is almost as
difficult for them as it is for us, given the typical huge legislative sloth in MA, etc. Not to mention in terms of anti gun BS its pretty far down on the list.

I don't share your confidence that "there's not a goddam thing they can do about it", I truly hope you are right. Remember Maura?

 

[BryMan92]

FYI, this will be brought to the Safety Committee for a vote. Has 39 backers, too. GOAL posted on FB today about it.