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PPT and Dealer

Discussion in 'Massachusetts Laws' started by BryMan92, May 30, 2019.

  1. Rockrivr1

    Rockrivr1 NES Member

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    I had the same thing happen with a note telling me to put it into the portal directly.
     

  2. fshalor

    fshalor NES Member

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    One eye followed the law. Doesn't matter if they sent it back. Law was followed.
     
  3. one-eyed Jack

    one-eyed Jack Manufacturer Dealer NES Member

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    FTF or dealer sale/transfer? Jack.
     
  4. one-eyed Jack

    one-eyed Jack Manufacturer Dealer NES Member

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    Maybe so, but they might be looking to give dealers shit. With the return they threatened me with a fine. Anyway, I managed to get back on MIRCS and do it over. Jack.
     
  5. fshalor

    fshalor NES Member

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    Oh you are an FFL though. Yeah. That's a little different.
     
  6. Rockrivr1

    Rockrivr1 NES Member

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    It was a FTF transaction.
     
  7. ADC

    ADC NES Member

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    SO, a Glock owned by a private party in MA can be transferred to another private party in MA via the eFA10 portal. If Lindsky's bill passes and these transfers are forced through an FFL, my understanding is, he can not transfer that firearm. Would this be true? Would it depend on the year of manufacture?
     
  8. andrew1220

    andrew1220 NES Member

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    My "guess" is that some dealers would still do the transfer the same way they transfer offlist guns? Not going to discuss those details publicly.
     
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  9. ADC

    ADC NES Member

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    It is interesting that all of these "Laws" that choke law abiding gun owners, do absolutely nothing to reduce violence or stem the use of illegal guns.

    The UK went after guns. That didn't work. They then want after knives. That clearly is not working. People are throwing acid at other people.
    The latest is reporting to LE "people looking not right" if they are buying a hammer.

    A friend of mine is London Met LE ... he will acknowledge these polices are not working. Aggravated assault and worse continues to increase.
     
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  10. one-eyed Jack

    one-eyed Jack Manufacturer Dealer NES Member

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    I suppose that all the AWB, roster and AG regs would apply. And probably any "grandfathering" would go away. Wonderful. Jack.
     
  11. JNewell

    JNewell NES Member

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    Using California jargon in Massachusetts doesn't make us the confused ones.

    I think you got your answer, but federal law requires that interstate handgun purchases must be made through an FFL. In MA, FFLs can only transfer handguns that are either on the roster or grandfathered. if the so-called "gun show loophole" (which is what Linsky's bill is more or less about) gets "closed," face to face (private party) transfers via eFA10 would no longer be possible and we'd be stuck (at best) with the current dealer restrictions - i.e., roster or grandfathered.
     
  12. andrew1220

    andrew1220 NES Member

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    I don't think that would be the case as there are dealers transferring offlist guns (including private party transfers) right now as we speak. But I'm not going to discuss that publicly or through PMs.
    But who knows. If this were to pass maybe dealers would change their tune? No clue.
     
  13. 42!

    42! NES Life Member NES Member

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    Relying on dealers doing something unlawful seems a poor way to solve a problem.
     
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  14. JNewell

    JNewell NES Member

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    The fact that some dealers are doing this doesn't mean it's smart or legal and can't produce a world of hurt. All of these transactions leave a trail of 4473s and FA-10s and are very easy to identify if anyone wanted to.
     
  15. drgrant

    drgrant Moderator NES Member

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    I can't find the cite right now but IIRC they actually changed the law and put the "web portal" verbiage into the effing
    law. I cited it in another thread here a week or two ago. Of course what is confusing is the MA leg website still has the old
    law on it.

    -Mike
     
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  16. andrew1220

    andrew1220 NES Member

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    Perfectly legal. Though I have to wonder how long it will last until the laws are changed/amended...
     
  17. one-eyed Jack

    one-eyed Jack Manufacturer Dealer NES Member

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    Anything that doesn't fit the agenda is considered illegal by the moonbats. Anyway, I always thought that illegal was a sick bird. Jack.
     
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  18. 42!

    42! NES Life Member NES Member

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    I don't know where you get your information, but other than grandfathered handguns, a MA dealer can't legally transfer an off list handgun.

    This isn't about what is right or what some dealers do, it about what is legal.
     
  19. firestorm

    firestorm

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    You are incorrect, but there is no way to explain how without letting the enemy know about wallhacks they may not be keyed into. But they they are working within the law, and are 100% legal under the current laws.
     
  20. 42!

    42! NES Life Member NES Member

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    Oh please, we are all well aware of how dealers circumvent the law. They openly advertise selling frames. Sooner or later they will get to stopping this and you'll all cry additional infringement. When the reality is this was the intent all along and you know it.

    So instead of playing games that you will lose, work to Chang the law.

    And telling someone they can legally transfer an off list gun when you know it's illegal is BS

    And if you think they don't know this, you are dangerously nieve.
     
  21. firestorm

    firestorm

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    For a thing to be illegal the law would have to say so. Since it doesn't, that makes it 100% legal. I'm sorry some people are afraid of their own shadow, but that does not make legal conduct suddenly illegal.

    As a consumer the list means nothing as far as legality anyway, there is no penalty for buying every off list handgun anyone will sell you. They are not illegal to buy, own, or possess. The dealer is the only one who has anything to worry about.
     
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  22. CrackPot

    CrackPot NES Member

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    MGL 140 128A

    "...Any sale or transfer conducted pursuant to this section shall comply with section 131E and shall, prior to or at the point of sale, be conducted over a real time web portal developed by the department of criminal justice information services. The department of criminal justice information services shall require each person selling or transferring a firearm, shotgun or rifle pursuant to this section to electronically provide, though the portal, such information as is determined to be necessary to verify the identification of the seller and purchaser and ensure that the sale or transfer complies with this section. Upon submission of the required information, the portal shall automatically review such information and display a message indicating whether the seller may proceed with the sale or transfer and shall provide any further instructions for the seller as determined to be necessary by the department of criminal justice information services..."

    As it relates to dealers
    MGL 140 123
    Paragraph 2
    "That every licensee shall, before delivery of a firearm, rifle or shotgun, make or cause to be made a true, legible entry in a sales record book to be furnished by the commissioner of the department of criminal justice information services and to be kept for that purpose, specifying the complete description of the firearm, rifle or shotgun, including the make, serial number, if any, type of firearm, rifle or shotgun, and designation as a large capacity weapon, if applicable, whether sold, rented or leased, the date of each sale, rental or lease, the license to carry firearms number or permit to purchase number and the identification card number in the case of a firearm or the identification card number or the license to carry firearms number in the case of a rifle or shotgun, the sex, residence and occupation of the purchaser, renter or lessee, and shall before delivery, as aforesaid, require the purchaser, renter or lessee personally to write in said sales record book his full name. Said book shall be open at all times to the inspection of the police."

    This is MIRCS

    Paragraph 12
    "That any licensee shall keep records of each sale, rental or lease of a rifle or shotgun, specifying the description of said rifle or shotgun, together with the name and address of the purchaser, renter or lessee, and the date of such transaction. "

    Seems redundant with paragraph 2
     
  23. drgrant

    drgrant Moderator NES Member

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    It is legal despite the fact that it obviously offends your sensibilities. Read the laws!

    Dealers that don't run a puritanical, sanitary ship, though run the risk of getting pinched. Several have because they played too loose. The legal definitions only mean something if a dealer actually adheres to them.

    Kinda funny because people have been, on the whole, "winning" games since 10/21/98.

    In MA we had ONE senator vote against ERPO. Someone pushing a law to dump handgun compliance BS is not happening. The only way that shit is going away is if somehow a court strikes it down.

    Of course "they" know it. "They" also know there's not a goddam thing they can do about it, unless they change MGL. Which thankfully is almost as
    difficult for them as it is for us, given the typical huge legislative sloth in MA, etc. Not to mention in terms of anti gun BS its pretty far down on the list. The only
    reason it exists to begin with is because cheryl fakes (and her "Cabal" that I've referred to here) and probably the AG at the time (Harshbarger) conspired to sneak it into GCA98 as a way to discourage people from getting licensed and buying guns.

    -Mike
     
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  24. 42!

    42! NES Life Member NES Member

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    No one has said anything different, I certainly haven't.
    The problem is you equate selling off list handguns to selling frames. The law defines what a handgun is and and what isn't. My comments about off list handguns sales is 100% correct. I can assure you that if the AG asks these dealers if they are selling off list guns the answer will be NO.

    Mike, it's not about sensibilities. People(dealers) can do what they want. It's about facts and accuracy. My comments on the law are 100% accurate. Equating frames to handguns is inaccurate, and I'm sure you don't want the antis doing this so why would you (or firestorm)?

    And I can't stand hypocrites, if they're going to play loose don't whine about it when it backfires. Otherwise, go ahead sell what you want.

    Yup, and when it happens it hurts us all.


    Give them time, they will get around to it. They tighten the screws every year.


    Probably true but letting off the pressure will only give them room for more restrictions.



    I don't share your confidence that "there's not a goddam thing they can do about it", I truly hope you are right. Remember Maura?
     

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