Police: Worcester homeowner shoots, injures man trespassing on his property

Bonesinium said:
Not relevant to the actions being right or wrong. I see nothing wrong with either option, and one should be free to choose.

Lots of people are perfectly capable of being responsible for their own livelihood and don’t need to be dependent on the government to do so for them. That’s how things worked for most of history. Forcing people to be solely dependent on government to protect them and their property is moronic and directly contrary to the principles of liberty.
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You seem to see plenty wrong with the option of calling the police from inside the home.

That’s how things worked for most of history.
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That's obviously not how things work today in Massachusetts. Reality.
 
namedpipes said:
The homeowner INVESTIGATED, not went after. He then acted reasonably to escort the miscreant off the property. During THAT reasonable action, the bad guy threatened the homeowners life. There is no time to retreat in a situation like that. Had he KNOWN the bad guy was armed and dangerous, then yeah, just maybe you'd be right.

Of course this is MA, so in practice you're right, but not because you're right.
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It's 1am and you see a guy outside your house dressed in black with a black backpack checking car doors. What, exactly, is there to investigate? It's very obvious what's going on. So in Massachusetts it's reasonable to get a gun and go insert yourself into the situation to "investigate"? The BG wouldn't be able to threaten the homeowner's life if he hadn't confronted him. Being in the right in practice is all you need in that scenario.
 
Bonesinium said:
I have no clue either way? So what you’ve been writing is neither what you believe nor what the facts of this situation are? So you are just talking out your ass? That cannot be correct. I give you more credit than that.




So is it your contention it is wrong confront trespassers because attorneys are expensive?



In every possible scenario the criminal getting away is the more likely outcome than getting arrested if you cower in place and expect the police to show up timely and effectively. But we need not speculate since this was an actual event and it turned out fine. Your desire to have people criminally charged for defending themselves and their property notwithstanding.



You sure about that, or is this just you talking out your ass again? Are you staying in every self defense shooting that happens? Citations please.



Good to know. Locked cars cannot be broken into. Comedy indeed.
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I have no clue either way? So what you’ve been writing is neither what you believe nor what the facts of this situation are? So you are just talking out your ass? That cannot be correct. I give you more credit than that.
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That's correct. You have no clue. Unless you can show evidence that you're clairvoyant you have no clue what someone's thoughts are.


So is it your contention it is wrong confront trespassers because attorneys are expensive?
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In this situation I'd say yes it is. Wrongful death lawsuits can be expensive as well if you kill the guy.


You sure about that, or is this just you talking out your ass again? Are you staying in every self defense shooting that happens? Citations please.
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Yes. I am sure about that. The most recent example that I can think of:

Chicopee Man Allegedly Shoots, Kills Teen Who Knocked On His Door

How much do you figure his legal bill was? You think he'll ever get the LTC and guns back? The wrongful death lawsuit will be pretty painful for him as well.


Your desire to have people criminally charged for defending themselves and their property notwithstanding.
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Ahhh...there's your psychic power on display once again. It must be cool to be able to read someone's mind from postings on a website....


Good to know. Locked cars cannot be broken into. Comedy indeed.
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We've had several car break ins in my neighborhood. I live in a decent area but we do get some scum passing through every now and then. The last time I heard about it my neighbor was bitching that stuff was stolen from his car for the third time. Guess how many times I've been victimized vs. the neighbor? Him...3 Me....0
That's because...wait for it....my doors are locked, his aren't....and scumbags like low hanging fruit. This isn't rocket science, sir.
 
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CCW said:
It's 1am and you see a guy outside your house dressed in black with a black backpack checking car doors. What, exactly, is there to investigate? It's very obvious what's going on. So in Massachusetts it's reasonable to get a gun and go insert yourself into the situation to "investigate"? The BG wouldn't be able to threaten the homeowner's life if he hadn't confronted him. Being in the right in practice is all you need in that scenario.
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Look, you're perfectly free to call 911 and kick back, sipping Chocolate Choo-Choos. Nobody around here would tell you DON'T DO THAT!

Likewise, there is no possible reason for a person not to look into something going on out there.

Most of us carry a firearm when they go to the grocery store in broad daylight in a good neighborhood. Why on God's green earth would you expect someone to go outside at night without one? Are you just looking to become a statistic? Because that's how you become a statistic.
 
CCW said:
You seem to see plenty wrong with the option of calling the police from inside the home.
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I’ve very clearly said I support people’s freedom to choose what to do.

Here’s what I actually said.

“I see nothing wrong with either option, and one should be free to choose.”

Wrong as per usual.

CCW said:
That's correct. You have no clue. Unless you can show evidence that you're clairvoyant you have no clue what someone's thoughts are.
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So your 11 posts in this thread on this topic aren’t you thoughts on the topic? So your are admitting you are just trolling? Usually when people write things it’s because that’s what they are thinking. Like right now I’m responding to you. And it’s not because I’ve somehow read your mind. I read your post.

You’re really being ridiculous.


Yes. I am sure about that. The most recent example that I can think of:

Chicopee Man Allegedly Shoots, Kills Teen Who Knocked On His Door
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“Gulluni said the teenager was not attempting to break into the house when Lovell allegedly shot him.”

Great, an unrelated example of that has nothing to do with confronting a criminal. Want to try again? Probably not.

If the best you can find is shooting someone who knocks on your door through the door, then your probably can’t find much.



How much do you figure his legal bill was? You think he'll ever get the LTC and guns back? The wrongful death lawsuit will be pretty painful for him as well.
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Who now? In your awful unrelated example? He’s not looking at a wrongful death lawsuit. Murder is illegal everywhere.



Ahhh...there's your psychic power on display once again. It must be cool to be able to read someone's mind from postings on a website....
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Here’s your own written words.

“. In a self defense encounter in order to legallyuse lethal force in MA one has a duty toretreat if safe to do so when outside thehome. He needlessly inserted himselfinto the situation...s. Instead of arresting him and making every humanly possible attempt to ruin his life 'cuz we can...... ”

Well maybe you don’t ‘desire’ it, but your sure think people should or will be.

We've had several car break ins in my neighborhood. I live in a decent area but we do get some scum passing through every now and then. The last time I heard about it my neighbor was bitching that stuff was stolen from his car for the third time. Guess how many times I've been victimized vs. the neighbor? Him...3 Me....0
That's because...wait for it....my doors are locked, his aren't....and scumbags like low hanging fruit. This isn't rocket science, sir.
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Great anecdotes. Because you’ve not had your car broken into means no criminal can break into locked cars. Fantastic logic. Keep up the good work.
 
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CCW said:
Yes. I am sure about that. The most recent example that I can think of:

Chicopee Man Allegedly Shoots, Kills Teen Who Knocked On His Door

How much do you figure his legal bill was? You think he'll ever get the LTC and guns back?
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"And then, he tried to compare a guy shooting a teenager through a door to a completely different incident...."

You know your argument is doing well when you resort to reducto ad absurdum..... [rofl]

The wrongful death lawsuit will be pretty painful for him as well.
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ayoobfinal_1.jpg

How often does that happen in MA?

Hint: This guy lived in some house in chicopee, probably not a worthy target for an
ambulance chaser.... setting aside the fact that "post SD civil lawsuits" are rarer than most
would imagine, even in states that don't immunize. Most people end up getting drained by the
time they make it to that phase, then they're no longer an appetizing target. If this guy was
an appetizing target, there's no way in hell he would intentionally live in chicopee.... [rofl]

-Mike
 
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Sevenrats said:
A gun is deadly force. Always.
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So merely having a gun on you while some other, lower level of forced is used turns it into deadly force? I didn't know that. [rofl] Breaking the incident up into chunks is
critical to understanding it. There may be legal issues with what this guy did, (in terms of his justification AT the point at which the "guy grabbed for his waistband") but it's not impossible to make the argument that the guy did not use "deadly force to protect property". Now if he had come out of his house and pointed his gun at this guy right out of
the gate, then that issue indeed comes back into play.... but that doesn't sound like what happened at all.

-Mike
 
I'd just like to thank the participants of this thread for their thought-provoking insight, no matter what the content was.... made for an interesting read! Let's hope that we are never confronted with a similar scenario, but if we were we would be able to act accordingly and correctly for an outcome we could live through... then live with...
This event happened a mile away from me and I know people on that street. A random thought rattled through my head that it was a good (or just interesting) thing that the shooting had no racial overtones... completely different story if it had? Dunno
 
drgrant said:


"And then, he tried to compare a guy shooting a teenager through a door to a completely different incident...."

You know your argument is doing well when you resort to reducto ad absurdum..... [rofl]



View attachment 232189

How often does that happen in MA?

Hint: This guy lived in some house in chicopee, probably not a worthy target for an
ambulance chaser.... setting aside the fact that "post SD civil lawsuits" are rarer than most
would imagine, even in states that don't immunize. Most people end up getting drained by the
time they make it to that phase, then they're no longer an appetizing target. If this guy was
an appetizing target, there's no way in hell he would intentionally live in chicopee.... [rofl]

-Mike
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Ayoob Rubber cement? Is that the stuff that you used on the fellas at the last NES shoot?
Anyway if you guys think it’s a good idea to grab a gun to confront someone attempting to open a car door in Massachusetts then have at it. I will enjoy reading your thread about your six-figure legal bill and your LTC revocation.
 
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Bumpa, If you saw this kid you'd get it. Hopefully they'll release a mugshot at some point. He's been a kilby kid forever, nice chicago bull tattoo below his chin. Epitomizes trouble from the get go. If Hector pinhead Piñero gets involved then it'll be game on for the race card possibly. If he said he was going to shoot you chances are better than average he's not kidding.
 
desertr8der said:
Bumpa, If you saw this kid you'd get it. Hopefully they'll release a mugshot at some point. He's been a kilby kid forever, nice chicago bull tattoo below his chin. Epitomizes trouble from the get go. If Hector pinhead Piñero gets involved then it'll be game on for the race card possibly. If he said he was going to shoot you chances are better than average he's not kidding.
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I'll look for a photo. Kirby Street "Posse".... now there is a good place for AG Healey to clean up! I'd like to see her go knocking door to door down there looking for evil black gunz....
 
It appears Zachary Bailey was arraigned and is being held on $10,000 bail.

The Telegram published quotes from the arraignment:
Assistant District Attorney Roberta A. O’Brien said the retired officer, identified in court records as Charles Jackson, saw 29-year-old Zachary Bailey, dressed all in black, trying to break into a car on Second Street about 12:45 a.m. Sunday. The ex-officer then saw the suspect walking toward the driveway of his home at 27 Second St., according to the prosecutor.

Ms. O’ Brien said Mr. Jackson went outside with his gun and placed a call to police to report an attempted breaking and entering into a motor vehicle. Mr. Jackson confronted Mr. Bailey in his yard and asked him what he was doing there, according to Ms. O’Brien. Mr. Bailey reportedly said he was cutting through the yard on his way home.

The retired officer told Mr. Bailey to get off his property, grabbed the backpack he was wearing and began escorting him to the street, Ms. O’Brien said. She said Mr. Jackson told police that Mr. Bailey swung at him and began assaulting him. Referencing the ex-officer’s firearm, Mr. Bailey allegedly said, “I have one of those, too, and don’t think I won’t shoot you,” according to Ms. O’Brien.

She said Mr. Jackson, 56, told investigators Mr. Bailey then removed a gun from his waistband and fired a shot. Mr. Jackson said he returned fire, and Mr. Bailey ran off. A neighbor told police he saw the suspect knock a cellphone from Mr. Jackson’s hand and choke and “slam” him, according to the assistant district attorney. The neighbor told police that he then saw the suspect reach behind him and heard a shot fired, Ms. O’Brien said.

Police said they were called to Washington Heights about 45 minutes later on a report of a
man who said he had been shot. Responding officers found Mr. Bailey, who was treated at the scene for two gunshot wounds and then taken to a local hospital for further treatment.

Ms. O’Brien said Mr. Bailey was shot in the arm and abdomen.

Mr. Bailey, of 35 Lovell St., was arraigned Tuesday in Central District Court on charges of trespassing, assault and battery, and attempting to break into a depository. He was also arraigned on an unrelated breaking and entering with intent to commit a misdemeanor charge stemming from what Ms. O’Brien said was a March 8 break-in at the home of Mr. Bailey’s ex-girlfriend on Williamsburg Drive. Not-guilty pleas were entered by the court on his behalf.

Ms. O’Brien asked Judge Janet J. McGuiggan to set a total of $15,000 cash bail on Mr. Bailey. The prosecutor said the suspect has a 10-page criminal record that includes convictions for crimes of violence, thefts and defaults.

Mr. Bailey’s appointed lawyer, J. Todd Mathieson, asked that bail for his client, a barber by trade, be set at $2,000 cash. Setting the bail requested by the prosecution would be tantamount to holding Mr. Bailey without bail, Mr. Mathieson said.

Judge McGuiggan set $5,000 cash bail on the March 8 breaking and entering charge and ordered Mr. Bailey to have no contact with his ex-girlfriend and to stay away from her address. The judge set $5,000 cash bail on the remaining charges and ordered Mr. Bailey to have no contact with any of the prosecution’s witnesses.

Mr. Bailey’s cases were continued to May 29.
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CCW said:
Ayoob Rubber cement? Is that the stuff that you used on the fellas at the last NES shoot?
Anyway if you guys think it’s a good idea to grab a gun to confront someone attempting to open a car door in Massachusetts then have at it. I will enjoy reading your thread about your six-figure legal bill and your LTC revocation.
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Reading Comprehension Fail...
 
desertr8der said:
Bumpa, If you saw this kid you'd get it. Hopefully they'll release a mugshot at some point. He's been a kilby kid forever, nice chicago bull tattoo below his chin. Epitomizes trouble from the get go. If Hector pinhead Piñero gets involved then it'll be game on for the race card possibly. If he said he was going to shoot you chances are better than average he's not kidding.
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I did an image search on Zachary Bailey and this came up. He LOOKS like trouble...

nlwvwavsoukgxxgaicyh.png
 
Hey! He's got my truck. Right down to the two-tone color and running boards. Hmph, Worcester cops must not make much dough. truck.png
 
I was wondering in this kind of situation, suppose you grab your HD gun from your safe and go outside, if you don't have a holster handy, where do you put it? I don't see a lot of good options:

This?
maxresdefault.jpg


This?
badass7b.jpg


I guess there's always this option:
gun-waistband-tattoo.jpg
 
Nick Fury said:
And with more details come even more questions...
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I like this quote:
"Twenty-five years in the military is what kicked in," he said. "He escalated. He brought it up to the next level."
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The next level being 2-non critical hits from short range out of the entire magazine.

He must have spent 25 years in artillery.
 
So, serious question, if you go out into your yard, armed, seems like you would want the weapon to be holstered, to avoid being accused of brandishing in Mass?

what do you do if you're in your PJs?
 
drgrant said:
So merely having a gun on you while some other, lower level of forced is used turns it into deadly force? I didn't know that. [rofl] Breaking the incident up into chunks is
critical to understanding it. There may be legal issues with what this guy did, (in terms of his justification AT the point at which the "guy grabbed for his waistband") but it's not impossible to make the argument that the guy did not use "deadly force to protect property". Now if he had come out of his house and pointed his gun at this guy right out of
the gate, then that issue indeed comes back into play.... but that doesn't sound like what happened at all.

-Mike
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You're just trying be argumentative. I didn't say that. If you use a gun or a knife it is always deadly force. That's it. No Judge or Jury is going to find otherwise. You can't say, "I was aiming at his knee" or "I was stabbing at his arm".
 
Many toe tags have been issued by the State medical examiner/coroner's office to those who chose to call 911 and wait on help to arrive.
Personally I would rather be alive facing charges than a toe tag issued in my name. A bad guy does not give a damn about your family or their rights.
 

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