Police: Worcester homeowner shoots, injures man trespassing on his property

[In God We Trust]

WRONG!

You can use reasonable (but not deadly) force to defend property.

This is the Massachusetts Trial Court jury instruction for defense of property:

I agree with you, but remember that dude a few years back in Swampscott (?) who tried to stop a scumbag from breaking into his work truck? The dude attacked him with a knife or something and the van owner broke his jaw in self defense. He got charged, but they were later dropped after a huge public outcry if I recall correctly

 

[Lank]

Police: Worcester homeowner shoots, injures man trespassing on his property

NOT GUILTY

 

[10thSFFD]

Obviously you missed the part about the shooter being a cop.

Thanks for a reminder. Television cameras already showed that famous Watertown precision.

 

[Varmint]

Wonder where all those missed shots went....

I'd check the neighborhood dogs for holes.

 

[Lank]

I agree with you, but remember that dude a few years back in Swampscott (?) who tried to stop a scumbag from breaking into his work truck? The dude attacked him with a knife or something and the van owner broke his jaw in self defense. He got charged, but they were later dropped after a huge public outcry if I recall correctly

The DPRMA values public sector unions over mere taxpayers. Think about it! Self defense is not for mere taxpayers

 

[10thSFFD]

2012
Zachary P. Bailey, 24, of 35 Laurel St., Worcester, charged with assault and battery, possession of cocaine and possession of a class E substance, continued to Aug. 8 on $5,000 cash bail.

 

[desertr8der]

Yep. Tons of a and b, mixed in with theft, poss distribution and b and e. Topped off ab on a family member.. He's been in jail more than out.

 

[Enzo]

(and good luck with that in Worcester, by the time they show up, the guy will be gone with your shit).
-Mike

LOL.......actually they show up pretty quickly. I heard this call come through and at least 8 to 10 cars responded they were enroute. They had a pretty good description and the homeowner was pretty sure he hit him. Only a matter of time before he turned up at a hospital.

 

[tbk5]

Some more info at Worcester man shoots trespasser in self-defense

While the homeowner was escorting the suspicious man towards the street, the man began to push the homeowner and physically fight him.

Witnesses said the homeowner gave the intruder the chance to leave his property before doing anything, but the man refused.

Neighbors who witnesses the altercation said the man threatened to shoot the homeowner and began to motion as if he was reaching for a gun. At that point, the homeowner fired multiple shots at the man, prompting him to run away.

 

[Bonesinium]

No. You don't have a right to defend your property. Only your life or someone else's life. He saw a guy outside and then went outside? He should have called the police.

Are you kidding me?

 

[jasons]

The homeowner is also a cop, so he’s good to go.

 

[CCW]

No. You don't have a right to defend your property. Only your life or someone else's life. He saw a guy outside and then went outside? He should have called the police.

This. Nobody likes to sound like a coward and the term shelter in place inspires comments of (insert slang for female anatomy or cat here) but in many situations it is the right thing to do. In a self defense encounter in order to legally use lethal force in MA one has a duty to retreat if safe to do so when outside the home. He needlessly inserted himself into the situation. He could have called the cops from the safety of the house. Never mind the duty to retreat. Since the shooter is a cop of course none of this applies. Instead of arresting him and making every humanly possible attempt to ruin his life 'cuz we can...... they'll apologize for interrupting his evening with these silly questions.

 

[drgrant]

LOL.......actually they show up pretty quickly. I heard this call come through and at least 8 to 10 cars responded they were enroute. They had a pretty good description and the homeowner was pretty sure he hit him. Only a matter of time before he turned up at a hospital.

Yeah because by the time the kopsch had been called shots were fired.

Big difference between "shots fired" and "I see some guy lurking around my property, please halp". The latter is probably treated like one step above a
wailing house or car alarm....

-Mike

 

[drgrant]

This. Nobody likes to sound like a coward and the term shelter in place inspires comments of (insert slang for female anatomy or cat here) but in many situations it is the right thing to do. In a self defense encounter in order to legally use lethal force in MA one has a duty to retreat if safe to do so when outside the home. He needlessly inserted himself into the situation. He could have called the cops from the safety of the house. Never mind the duty to retreat. Since the shooter is a cop of course none of this applies. Instead of arresting him and making every humanly possible attempt to ruin his life 'cuz we can...... they'll apologize for interrupting his evening with these silly questions.

Not sure if serious, so you'd hide under your couch if some guy was in your yard and call the cops on him instead of pinging him? It could be something entirely
innocuous.

-Mike

 

[drgrant]

makes sense - I was wondering why he wasn't arrested on the spot. That explains why, he's special.

Not every SD shooting involves an arrest. (It's wise to expect it as a great possibility, though). Even ones involving "not quite special" people. That doesn't mean that the authorities won't be up your ass sideways, but the police that respond might decide that its just an exercise in stupidity to arrest
someone that isn't some kind of exigent threat to the public. It all depends on the circumstances.

-Mike

 

[Dennis in MA]

1. Does anyone else see this as going down like the climactic scene from Lethal Weapon. LOL

2.

That news headline sucks. Leaves off the part about attempted theft, the perp threatening to shoot the homeowner while reaching into his waistband (witnessed), and fighting with him. Sounds like a good shoot to me, except for the "injured" part.

Headlines and descriptions like that, I'd think it was the Tongue & Groove, not WHDWhatever. Of course the T&G would say, "Local independent contractor attacked on job site!"

3.

It wasn't deadly. Now, check Texas where you can shoot someone breaking into a neighbor's house...much different

You know, in a way that's just as strange. "Oh looky. That man is breaking into Bubba's house. . . BLAMBLAMBLAM!" Of course what you didn't know is that Bubba lost his keys and asked this guy to climb into the window. Bubba's on the other side of the trailer. Laws like this and MA's don't allow for any reasonable-ness on anyone's part.

 

[Bonesinium]

A couple of you would make excellent victims and would do the UK proud.

Here is what the MA Constitution says.

All people are born free and equal and have certain natural, essential and unalienable rights; among which may be reckoned the right of enjoying and defending their lives and liberties; that of acquiring, possessing and protecting property

Protecting property is a fundamental right. “Needlessly inserted himself into the situation”? You kidding me? GTFOOH.

 

[CCW]

Not sure if serious, so you'd hide under your couch if some guy was in your yard and call the cops on him instead of pinging him? It could be something entirely
innocuous.

-Mike

Well then let's make sure that you're sure.
12:47 AM
Guy dressed in black clothing with black backpack
Checking car doors

Let's just assume he's not out collecting for the Red Cross. That said:

You should:

A: Get a gun and go confront him
B: Get a gun and call the cops from inside your locked house

 

[TomMontana]

In most instances like this, a homeowner yelling at the perp would probably make him leave. That would be the end of it. This particular homeowner being a policeman was probably trying to arrest him, then got close enough to get in a scuffle and shooting him. Personally, I wouldn't confront someone in the dark that close physically.

 

[CCW]

A couple of you would make excellent victims and would do the UK proud.

Here is what the MA Constitution says.

All people are born free and equal and have certain natural, essential and unalienable rights; among which may be reckoned the right of enjoying and defending their lives and liberties; that of acquiring, possessing and protecting property

Protecting property is a fundamental right. “Needlessly inserted himself into the situation”? You kidding me? GTFOOH.

You kidding me? No. Not so much. If you think it's a good idea to grab a gun and confront a guy checking car doors at 1 AM then have at it. My first hour of legal fees would cost about the same as the insurance deductible and my doors are locked so the chance of any loss is minimal regardless. Then of course there's LTC revocation and the guns off to the black hole at the bonded warehouse. But...then you could post a cool story on the interwebs

 

[Bonesinium]

Well then let's make sure that you're sure.
12:47 AM
Guy dressed in black clothing with black backpack
Checking car doors

Let's just assume he's not out collecting for the Red Cross. That said:

You should:

A: Get a gun and go confront him
B: Get a gun and call the cops from inside your locked house

You’re one of those people who when somebody does something that you wouldn’t do, thinks that means they were wrong, aren’t you?

 

[BREWINZ]

Ex cop. Nothing to see here.

 

[drgrant]

Well then let's make sure that you're sure.
12:47 AM
Guy dressed in black clothing with black backpack
Checking car doors

Let's just assume he's not out collecting for the Red Cross. That said:

You should:

A: Get a gun and go confront him
B: Get a gun and call the cops from inside your locked house

There is no "getting a gun" because if I'm awake and I see that, it's already on me.

Confront him? I guess if turning a few lights on (or perhaps shining a flashlight in their direction) and asking someone "can I help you?" is a confrontation...

-Mike

 

[CCW]

You’re one of those people who when somebody does something that you wouldn’t do, thinks that means they were wrong, aren’t you?

Am I? I may or may not be. Regardless of that if you stick to the topic at hand I don't see any argument that helps make the case that it's a good idea to leave your house with a gun at 1 am to confront a guy checking car doors....in Massachusetts

 

[TayNinh_66]

In MA he could be charged with use of unreasonable force but case law implies he is allowed to use deadly force if Jose uses words or actions such as fighting or reaching for a gun that gives you reason to believe he may kill you or inflict great bodily harm. You don't have a duty to retreat if inside your house but outside...run like hell.

 

[Bonesinium]

Am I? I may or may not be. Regardless of that if you stick to the topic at hand I don't see any argument that helps make the case that it's a good idea to leave your house with a gun at 1 am to confront a guy checking car doors....in Massachusetts

You don’t think successfully protecting property and the arrest of the criminal is a good argument? That’s sad.

 

[CCW]

There is no "getting a gun" because if I'm awake and I see that, it's already on me.

Confront him? I guess if turning a few lights on (or perhaps shining a flashlight in their direction) and asking someone "can I help you?" is a confrontation...

-Mike

Going outside and fighting the guy like this homeowner isn't shining a flashlight. Your previous comment looks the the typical post without reading the article knee jerk.

 

[drgrant]

Going outside and fighting the guy like this homeowner isn't shining a flashlight. Your previous comment looks the the typical post without reading the article knee jerk.

I did read the article, and its so sloppily put together that lots of details are not clear from it. Maybe at some point this guy made a shitty decision but the generalized idea of using a minimal amount of "force" if you want to call it that, to protect your property is not, by itself, retarded. That's mostly what I was getting at.

-Mike

 

[Bonesinium]

Going outside and fighting the guy like this homeowner isn't shining a flashlight. Your previous comment looks the the typical post without reading the article knee jerk.

That’s interesting, because I’d say the same of yours.

Funny you characterize it that way.

“ While escorting the man off his property, witnesses said they heard the man threaten to shoot the homeowner and reach for his waistband, prompting him to open fire.”

But nope, he went out and picked a fight. Or maybe he didn’t.

In any case, you can cower in fear at the mere presence of a trespasser and others should be free to confront and if need be defend themselves from them. That’s a very basic and fundemental right I believe in. Clearly not everyone thinks people should have such rights. You’d fit in great in England.

 

[CCW]

You don’t think successfully protecting property and the arrest of the criminal is a good argument? That’s sad.

Attorneys who charge 300.00 an hour to get up in the morning love people like you. Sometimes there's what you want to do, what you should do, and what you have to do. At then end of the day how are you better off? If you play out every possible scenario the end result of the arrest could have happened several different ways. In any case if the shooter here were a civilian he'd be looking at a revocation and a six figure legal bill at minimum. The phone call to the cops is free with my unlimited plan and my car doors are locked so they wouldn't get far anyway. These threads are exactly why NES is like stand up comedy.