Police: Worcester homeowner shoots, injures man trespassing on his property

Bonesinium said:
That’s interesting, because I’d say the same of yours.

Funny you characterize it that way.

“ While escorting the man off his property, witnesses said they heard the man threaten to shoot the homeowner and reach for his waistband, prompting him to open fire.”

But nope, he went out and picked a fight. Or maybe he didn’t.

In any case, you can cower in fear at the mere presence of a trespasser and others should be free to confront and if need be defend themselves from them. That’s a very basic and fundemental right I believe in. Clearly not everyone thinks people should have such rights. You’d fit in great in England.
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What I believe in and what the facts are dealing with this in Massachusetts may not be one and the same. You have no clue either way. Again....what you may want to do and what you have to do are usually very different things.
 
Varmint said:
Witnesses said the guy threatened to shoot the homeowner and reached for his waistband. Sounds like a good shoot, but better if the robber was armed.
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I want to know where you get witnesses this good at 12:47 AM? If this was my neighborhood
I wouldn’t be able to get witnesses this good noon time on Saturday with all my neighbors holding barbecues!
I guess it helps when all your neighbors know you’re a cop?
 
Fox25 last night stated the HO confronted the guy around the side of his house, showed his badge, told the perp to get on the ground, perp started fighting with him, reached around his back as if to draw a weapon, HO...bang, bang, bang
 
CCW said:
What I believe in and what the facts are dealing with this in Massachusetts may not be one and the same. You have no clue either way. Again....what you may want to do and what you have to do are usually very different things.
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I have no clue either way? So what you’ve been writing is neither what you believe nor what the facts of this situation are? So you are just talking out your ass? That cannot be correct. I give you more credit than that.


CCW said:
Attorneys who charge 300.00 an hour to get up in the morning love people like you. Sometimes there's what you want to do, what you should do, and what you have to do. At then end of the day how are you better off?
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So is it your contention it is wrong to confront trespassers because attorneys are expensive?

If you play out every possible scenario the end result of the arrest could have happened several different ways.
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In every possible scenario the criminal getting away is the more likely outcome than getting arrested if you cower in place and expect the police to show up timely and effectively. But we need not speculate since this was an actual event and it turned out fine. Your desire to have people criminally charged for defending themselves and their property notwithstanding.

In any case if the shooter here were a civilian he'd be looking at a revocation and a six figure legal bill at minimum.
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You sure about that, or is this just you talking out your ass again? Are you staying in every self defense shooting that happens? Citations please.

The phone call to the cops is free with my unlimited plan and my car doors are locked so they wouldn't get far anyway. These threads are exactly why NES is like stand up comedy.
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Good to know. Locked cars cannot be broken into. Comedy indeed.
 
Bonesinium said:
I have no clue either way? So what you’ve been writing is neither what you believe nor what the facts of this situation are? So you are just talking out your ass? That cannot be correct. I give you more credit than that.




So is it your contention it is wrong to confront trespassers because attorneys are expensive?



In every possible scenario the criminal getting away is the more likely outcome than getting arrested if you cower in place and expect the police to show up timely and effectively. But we need not speculate since this was an actual event and it turned out fine. Your desire to have people criminally charged for defending themselves and their property notwithstanding.



You sure about that, or is this just you talking out your ass again? Are you staying in every self defense shooting that happens? Citations please.



Good to know. Locked cars cannot be broken into. Comedy indeed.
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In baseball they call it playing the percentages. What is your most likely chance of coming out of this whole? Calling the police as some clown is trying my locked car door or going out there with a gun and confronting him?
 
CCW said:
In baseball they call it playing the percentages. What is your most likely chance of coming out of this whole? Calling the police as some clown is trying my locked car door or going out there with a gun and confronting him?
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Not relevant to the actions being right or wrong. I see nothing wrong with either option, and one should be free to choose.

Lots of people are perfectly capable of being responsible for their own livelihood and don’t need to be dependent on the government to do so for them. That’s how things worked for most of history. Forcing people to be solely dependent on government to protect them and their property is moronic and directly contrary to the principles of liberty.
 
gamma19 said:
Notice how the media is already trying to sway public opinion by implying he shot the assailant over alleged trespassing.

Homeowner needs to lawyer up.
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homeowner should have lawyered up before the police got there. once he opened his mouth he was screwed.
 
Call the cops first then head out to confront guy. I believe any court would side with someone seeing a crime being committed and at least trying to let the perp know that they are being witnessed. If the .gov didn't want civilians helping trying to curb crime then why are all those neighborhood crime watch signs in just about every neighborhood you go into. At least that's what I'd be saying, but you gotta at least call 911 before you head out to confront someone
 
drgrant said:
Easy there.... do you really put people on trial based on stuff printed in a rag? lol You're suggesting its illegal for the homeowner to do anything other than hide under his couch and call the kopsch? (and good luck with that in Worcester, by the time they show up, the guy will be gone with your shit).

Also, if you read the article it would appear that he didn't "protect his property with a firearm" or even attempt to do so.... so unless there's some law under MGL that says you cant "shoo" a potential thief away from your property (without deadly force/weapon/etc) his actions may very well not be unlawful.

As much as I hate to say it though there's an upshot to the perp not dying- whenever the perp doesn't die the level of scrutiny goes way down. (I've seen this effect more than once, in Worcester County, BTW.... ) If there's no corpse the DA seems to be much less interested in trying to hang someone.

-Mike
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Hell ya, they do it with cops here every day.
 
Palladin said:
Fox25 last night stated the HO confronted the guy around the side of his house, showed his badge, told the perp to get on the ground, perp started fighting with him, reached around his back as if to draw a weapon, HO...bang, bang, bang
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Now bear in mind whos account this is. Of course it went down like that. Reaching for a pretend weapon is always the wisest course of action. Or is it just a well used story? I forget...
 
If an non special person went outside and confronted an unarmed man and ended up shooting him, he’d be facing charges in Mass. if not a LEO, very different story.
 
Nick Fury said:
Now bear in mind whos account this is. Of course it went down like that. Reaching for a pretend weapon is always the wisest course of action. Or is it just a well used story? I forget...
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"FURTIVE MOVEMENTS!!!!!!!!!! "

[rofl]
 
Palladin said:
Fox25 last night stated the HO confronted the guy around the side of his house, showed his badge, told the perp to get on the ground, perp started fighting with him, reached around his back as if to draw a weapon, HO...bang, bang, bang
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Det. Bosko, is that you? [laugh]


heat-hbosko.png


I wonder if console TV man saw it...

heat-srichard2.png
 
I find the story that a witness was somehow in a position to both hear and see the guy threaten and reach for his waistband at 1am on someone else’s property highly suspect, but who knows.
 
swatgig said:
WRONG!

You can use reasonable (but not deadly) force to defend property.

This is the Massachusetts Trial Court jury instruction for defense of property:
A person may use reasonable force, but not deadly force, to defend
his lawful property against someone who has no right to it.

A person may also use reasonable force, but not deadly force, to
regain lawful possession of his property where his (her) possession has
been momentarily interrupted by someone with no right to the property.

Finally, a person may also use reasonable force, but not deadly force,
to remove a trespasser from his property after the trespasser has been
requested to leave and has refused to do so.
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So, in a normal world pepper spray or a stun gun would be 'reasonable' force to protect one's property or to remove a trespasser. But I guess you can't Tase a trespasser now since the SJC has decided that those are actually 'deadly' weapons.
 
Knuckle Dragger said:
So, in a normal world pepper spray or a stun gun would be 'reasonable' force to protect one's property or to remove a trespasser. But I guess you can't Tase a trespasser now since the SJC has decided that those are actually 'deadly' weapons.
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The appeals court determined that "whacking" a trespasser with a fireplace poker was not defense of property and was assault and battery by means of a dangerous weapon. See Com v Haddock, 46 Mass. App. Ct. 246 (1998)

HADDOCK, COMMONWEALTH vs., 46 Mass. App. Ct. 246
 
CCW said:
This. Nobody likes to sound like a coward and the term shelter in place inspires comments of (insert slang for female anatomy or cat here) but in many situations it is the right thing to do. In a self defense encounter in order to legally use lethal force in MA one has a duty to retreat if safe to do so when outside the home. He needlessly inserted himself into the situation. He could have called the cops from the safety of the house. Never mind the duty to retreat. Since the shooter is a cop of course none of this applies. Instead of arresting him and making every humanly possible attempt to ruin his life 'cuz we can...... they'll apologize for interrupting his evening with these silly questions.
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The homeowner INVESTIGATED, not went after. He then acted reasonably to escort the miscreant off the property. During THAT reasonable action, the bad guy threatened the homeowners life. There is no time to retreat in a situation like that. Had he KNOWN the bad guy was armed and dangerous, then yeah, just maybe you'd be right.

Of course this is MA, so in practice you're right, but not because you're right.
 
Fattman said:
6pm news just said guy was off duty LEO, nothing to see here it was justified. Although it sounds like it was justified, the double standard pissed me off. If that was me they would have unloaded my safes onto a table and took a picture for the papers to run with whatever story they want to portray.
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The double standard is sad. You'd probably get tased or chewed on by Sheapards and all your guns would be in police lockup for years if not permenantly. But since it's an off duty cop, he can come out with a 500 Magnum, dirty harry style shooting anything that moves like Clint Eastwood. And when LEO arrive at his house they'll probably order a pizza and watch the game with him lol.
 
Cop or not, not guilty.
I wonder if this witness is a fellow officer.
Im sure both their deposition with start "in my years of training and experience.."
"..furtive movements"

Its dark, your trespassing, your told to leave, you dont... you get shot.
I just dont see how shooting someone in your home is any different that shooting somone one your property.
If our laws werent so f***ed up youd see alot less trespassing. People i know catch people caseing there how for B&E home invasion.. there basically is nothing you can legally do.

Its why i have cameras everywhere.
 
MassachussettsMosinNagant said:
The double standard is sad. You'd probably get tased or chewed on by Sheapards and all your guns would be in police lockup for years if not permenantly. But since it's an off duty cop, he can come out with a 500 Magnum, dirty harry style shooting anything that moves like Clint Eastwood. And when LEO arrive at his house they'll probably order a pizza and watch the game with him lol.
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Also nobody cares where his 6-9 stray rounds went, cause he’s above the law, or he is the law, or something.
 
Enzo said:
Homeowner is a retired Worcester PO. Check out the sign next to his outside door.....


View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Sl5Tz3Sav3U&sns=em
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The Worcester PD LT seemed very careful in his statement by word choices...Almost like he was being careful not to say you can't confront and then shoot someone lurking about your property but also that it is not really frowned upon if you just happen to do so.....My take is they are in a conundrum since it is one of their own who is under scrutiny...I do believe in all honestly that a nobody type home owner (me for example) who did this would already be in some pretty deep and smelly doodoo...and the LTs statement would have had something along the lines of "Citizens should not confront trespassers nor leave their homes and should just call 911" ( and wait the "8 minutes" for police to arrive)...And that same HO would have already been perp walked for the cameras the next day as an example...

Just my $.02

Oh yah, that sign near the door...Good one...Card Carrying ACLU anti gunner prosecutor might say Intent??? but IANAL...
 
I don't understand the bizarre world we live, the news always reports the status of the perp first like we give a damn he is going to be OK.
 

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