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owner shoots B&E guy 14 times and go's to reload lol
- Thread starter henchmen77
- Start date
He must've been using a 9 mm.
dwarven1
Lonely Mountain Arms
Boy needs to learn to keep his mouth SHUT until his lawyer gets there... Wonder if he can be sued under Florida law? For that matter, would the stand your ground law there apply to this case? I'm thinking it would... but I bet it wouldn't in MA.
No, he's not.
First of all, it's Florida. There's no duty to retreat in FL for
starters, under any circumstance. (at least not insofar as when
deadly force is warranted) FL is one of the few states takes self
defense pretty seriously to the benefit of the defender.
Second of all, mag dumps under stress are pretty common; LEO's
do it all the time, unintentionally or because the threat hasn't
stopped/dropped, etc.
If his use of deadly force was legitimate, I doubt the system there
will question the "inelegance" of the shooting. All I can say
is kudos to the guy in the gas station. If this kind of thing
happened more often some of these criminals would think twice
before trying to rob people.
-Mike
First of all, it's Florida. There's no duty to retreat in FL for
starters, under any circumstance. (at least not insofar as when
deadly force is warranted) FL is one of the few states takes self
defense pretty seriously to the benefit of the defender.
Second of all, mag dumps under stress are pretty common; LEO's
do it all the time, unintentionally or because the threat hasn't
stopped/dropped, etc.
If his use of deadly force was legitimate, I doubt the system there
will question the "inelegance" of the shooting. All I can say
is kudos to the guy in the gas station. If this kind of thing
happened more often some of these criminals would think twice
before trying to rob people.
-Mike
It's FL, not MA and all the shooting was done inside the store, so I doubt the owner will be prosecuted.
I'd expect it to go the opposite way if this was in MA however.
I'd expect it to go the opposite way if this was in MA however.
Garys
NES Member
Maybe, maybe not. It's Florida where the law is a lot more self defense friendly. If he shot the guy 14 times and the guy was still able to get out of the building, I have to wonder where the guy was hit and what type of ammunition was being used.
Reloading is prudent if you run out of ammunition.
I'm not even sure if the burglar being armed is going to make a difference under FL law.
Gary
dwarven1
Lonely Mountain Arms
He could have been using a Para P14... but I can't imagine the burglar who could soak up 14 rounds of .45 and still be moving.
Unless he was Big Daddy .45ACP's size or bigger, maybe. Or part dinosaur.
![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
What's worth shooting once is worth shooting twice. Repeat as needed. If the goblin was gettin up after one mag, it means its time for another, so long as you aren't shooting him as he's running away.
Garys
NES Member
Absolutely. Say nothing until your lawyer is there. Then let HIM do the talking.
As to the rest, I agree with Ross, Len, and Mike. Florida has a strong self defense law and I think it covers civil action as well as criminal.
We need more of this, not less.
Gary
![[banana]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/029.GIF "Banana [banana]")
Twigg
NES Member
Three things I have learned from this thread.
1. Shaddupa you mouth untill you see your attorney.![[thinking]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/010.gif "Thinking [thinking]")
2. Nothing compares to life in a free state.![[grin]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/041.gif "Grin [grin]")
3. There is no substitute for .45 JHP's.
1. Shaddupa you mouth untill you see your attorney.
2. Nothing compares to life in a free state.
3. There is no substitute for .45 JHP's.
3. There is no substitute for .45 JHP's.
I dunno, Twiggy, as much as I love John Browning's fat-boy pistol cartridge, .357 Magnum, or 10mm Auto are pretty friggin badass, and DO offer more stopping power.
Though at this point I'm prettymuch splitting hairs.
BTW any word on how many hits scored? Doing a mag-dump in high pressure, and the possibility that this guy may not have logged much range time, he could have flung a lot of rounds wide or short, even at close range.
In the end, there is no substitute for good marksmanship, and proper training!
A skilled shooter with a .22 is a LOT more deadly than a novice with a .44 Magnum.
Arrrrr
dwarven1
Lonely Mountain Arms
Do not forget the luck factor. Friend of mine got killed with the last round that some asshat cylinder-dumped at him out of a .357. First 5 rounds went through the roof of the bus... last one hit Harve in the back of the head.
![[crying]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/006.gif "Crying [crying]")
ANYONE can get lucky; never forget.
[sad2] I'm sorry to hear about that Ross. You're totally right. The #1 rule for surving a fight is to simply not be in one. And also sadly, bad luck can happen too! You can be an expert marksman, but Murphy might say tonight is the night that your 100% reliable pistol is going to have its first feed-jam....
I'd take my chances.
You NEVER want to face a gun-wielding aggressor when you're armed only with a .22. Not to dump on you Andy but I see statements like yours a lot and they're flat out wrong.
A skilled shooter with a .22 can score plenty of hits, and the aggressor might very well die - but days later from an infection.
Give me my trusty 10mm and I'd rather go against a skilled shooter with a .22 than a novice with a .44 mag any day.
14 shots in the center of body mass at 15 ft ought to put a person down (eventually if on drugs) no matter what the caliber (maybe even including 22LR).
I suspect we are dealing with a person who is a very bad shot, and not with a caliber problem. Any clue as to where the shots landed?
One thing is for sure: none of the fourteen hit an essential organ. Ergo, the guy did not shoot very well. I am not saying I will be able to do better if my adrenaline is up.
Why do we have to immediately bash the 9mm?
Enough said. I am not looking for a caliber war! I will not trust .45 more than 9mm no matter what you (.45ACp lovers) have to say. Revolver calibers (357 mag, 44 mag etc).........that's another story!
AIG
I suspect we are dealing with a person who is a very bad shot, and not with a caliber problem. Any clue as to where the shots landed?
One thing is for sure: none of the fourteen hit an essential organ. Ergo, the guy did not shoot very well. I am not saying I will be able to do better if my adrenaline is up.
Why do we have to immediately bash the 9mm?
Enough said. I am not looking for a caliber war! I will not trust .45 more than 9mm no matter what you (.45ACp lovers) have to say. Revolver calibers (357 mag, 44 mag etc).........that's another story!
AIG
I guess my statement wasn't said the right way. I totally agree with all your statements. I guess what I really meant is any gun isn't worth crap if you can't score a hit.
And I'll take my .45, and save the .22 for the paper and the pests.
Even some COM hits are not instantly incapacitating- You have
to get a CNS hit for that to "definitely" happen, which means
spine or brain, typically. Everything outside of that can often
function for at least some window of time (whether its a few
seconds or a few minutes) before a person drops or is otherwise
incapable of causing you further harm. This is of course
disregarding other factors not necessarily associated with direct
function; eg, debilitating pain or psychological factors. Since not
everyone takes pain the same way, (especially under adrenaline
effects) these effects are very hard to predict. You can have
some criminals which are wussbags and others which are tough
(either they were just made that way, or whatever drugs they
happen to be on suppress the pain pretty well... )
One of the interesting things that came out in the FL FBI shootout
was that one of the attackers had non survivable chest wound
(meaning he would have died soon anyways) but still was able to
fight for several minutes. While most criminals will not have the
level of stamina that Platt and Matix had, it does give you some
idea of the fact that every now and then some "good" hits will not
always guarantee instant incapacitation. All you can really do is
shoot until you stop the threat..... and thats what this guy
did, or at least appeared to try to do.
Food for thought- if the same event happened over again with
a different perp, and different bullet entry angles, etc, you
might see a different outcome. The same thing could
be three shots then DRT, (died right there) or the BG getting
shot once or twice, getting scared, then running away, with
survivable injuries. It's impossible to tell till it happens- there
are too many variables involved. Course, the defenders odds
of stopping the attacker quickly go up dramatically with improvement
in accuracy and technique.
-Mike
Garys
NES Member
True.
I believe that all generalizations along this line are just that: generalizations that may be right or may be wrong in particular cases.
I've personally seen a man take 6 center of mass hits with a 9 mm and keep on running around yelling and screaming. I rather think that, within the set of full power handgun rounds (9 mm, .40 cal, .357), bullet design has more to do with the probability of a quick stop than caliber.
I have to wonder if he really did hit the robber 14 times.
Maybe the title should read, "Robber Shot AT 14 Times"
Just my guess.
Maybe the title should read, "Robber Shot AT 14 Times"
Just my guess.
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