Opinions on Beretta 92FS 9MM

jpk said:
with so many other great options avail I dont understand how this model even makes the top 10 list....especially in 9mm
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Because it is a world standard gun with a proven track record found in the inventories of many law enforcement and military organizations. It may be in the process of being replaced, but you will see it in the inventory of the US Armed Forces for at least the next decade and probably longer.


It's like the Browning Hi Power and the 1911. The platform works and people have learned to work around any of its shortcomings. Remember that the 92fs had already been around for awhile before it was adopted by the U.S. It represents a mature technology just like the AR.

Can you say the same thing about the latest 9mm offerings by Walther, Sig . H&K or even S$W M&P?
 
jpk said:
with so many other great options avail I dont understand how this model even makes the top 10 list....especially in 9mm
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What are the "great options" please? I ask because besides the 92 FS, I'm looking at a Glock 17 and a Sig P226 (but in .40).

BTW, the 92FS is used for $400. Is this a good price? Was owned by a man who passed away.
 
jpk said:
The 92FS and its relationship with the fed gov is just another example of corp welfare

Its one of those examples of questionable quality control and no shortage of reported issues resulting in total failure to address glaring design not to mention QC issues

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/01/daniel-zimmerman/gun-review-beretta-m992a/

http://www.guns.com/2014/12/31/my-five-beefs-with-the-beretta-m9/

The excessively long trigger pull of first shot is enough of a problem alone to punt it to the curb....dont even get me started on the safety
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Well that's one perspective except you are looking at it from the US involvement and believe me I am well versed in the adoption of the M9 and why it was accepted, well versed. I think I would have preferred the Sig P226 which was preferred. I am also well aware of the GAO report, but like so many NESers of Amerika 2015 you want to use a gun forum as part of your political agenda. Let's talk about guns shall we? You remember those things that go bang and project those funny little things called bullets that go and hurt people, sometimes even kill them.

Let's take a look and see objectively how the 92fs has fared as a service weapon over the years:

It's been in service in over 42 countries and been produced under license in at least three: US, Egypt and Brazil. It has been used by countless law enforcement agencies worldwide.

I've carried the M9 in service it is an accurate reliable weapon, It would never be my first choice for two reasons: 1. I have small hands and it is hard for me to engage the weapon in DA mode 2. In military ball configuration the 9mm just isn't that good a stopper

For those of us of a certain age who grew up using the traditional DA/SA semi auto system the idea of a decocker on the slide is no big deal, Sig was probably the first to come along with the decocking lever, but being a pre-Glock, pre Sig guy, who shot Walthers and S&W 39s your objections are just not on my radar screen. Guess it is one of those generational things that we can agree to disagree on, just like your subjective politicization of the pistol trials of the M9, I would have to ask were you even around then? Of course, if you have done time in the service, you would know that the issue of military sidearms is pretty moot, because in the grand scheme of things, a pistol isn't really a very important weapons platform in our combat doctrine. It's more of a badge of rank really. Law enforcement personnel, aviators and officers being the only ones who really are issued them. If the .mil were smart and were to issue pistols as secondary or back up weapons to infantry that would be another story, but sadly that will never happen, so it is pretty irrelevant what the .mil issues really. I always figured that if I were in a situation where I really needed a weapon I'd find a way to get a rifle muy pronto, not to hard to do really, otherwise a pistol was much more convenient to carry on field exercises.

So the M9 remains a viable, reliable pistol, better than many, not as good as a few, and one that will remain on the world stage as a player well into this century. Your objections are more ideological than pragmatic and so be it, but truthfully, if I found one at the right price, I'd probably buy one, shoot it at the range and have fun with it. I am very comfortable with the traditional DA/SA system and the slide mounted decocker/safety. My preference would be the G variant, but I wouldn't get my panties in a snit because we made some deal with the Italians back in the mid-eighties. That was small potatoes compared to some of our real boondoggles especially some of the major contracts during our recent wars in the Middle East. YMMV may vary and you are entitled to your opinon, thx for your attempt to "edumacate me" but I already know the facts on our Beretta acquisition and it just doesn't get my panties in a snit, cuz to me that's small potatoes compared to all the other shit that's gone on. [wink]
 
jpk said:
Comedy mark....pure comedy

YOU are going to look at it objectively but none of the reviews of the gun including those written by the folks that actually train folks to use THAT gun are objective.

Ignore ALL of the well documented problems with the gun including trigger and proclaim that it will be around forever....and THEN tell folks it wouldnt be your first choice after all that.

There's a reason why Beretta doesnt sell a heck of a lot of them outside of .gov.......its because there are tons of other handguns that are more reliable, fit more people better or have modular grip systems avail and most importantly.....are just a lot easier to operate/shoot.....especially first shot.....you know....the one that counts most.
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It's okay we get it, your hands are too small and gimpy to be able to shoot it proficiently. Be sure to watch out for the mall ninjas that can disarm you by easily pulling off the slide in one swift movement. [smile]

- - - Updated - - -

Besides it's not like you can improve the DA pull like other guns with a simple part replacement.
Shame on anyone for thinking that.
 
DarthRevan said:
It's okay we get it, your hands are too small and gimpy to be able to shoot it proficiently. Be sure to watch out for the mall ninjas that can disarm you by easily pulling off the slide in one swift movement. [smile] - - - Updated - - - Besides it's not like you can improve the DA pull like other guns with a simple part replacement. Shame on anyone for thinking that.
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What you folks fail to realize from the comfort of your armchairs is that firearms long government service tend to stick around for long periods of time. I realize that you are experts with THE answers with plenty of real world experience, but in the world I lived in I found the occasional Webley revolver, S&W Revolver, British Enfield Service Rifle and assorted weaponry from the 20th Century still in service and still in use. I'll yield to your superior expertise and not allow my experience to confuse you with facts . Your anger is amusing. I see a lot of that these days. Just out of curiosity jane either of you or do either of you carry professionally?
 
mark056 said:
What you folks fail to realize from the comfort of your armchairs is that firearms long government service tend to stick around for long periods of time. I realize that you are experts with THE answers with plenty of real world experience, but in the world I lived in I found the occasional Webley revolver, S&W Revolver, British Enfield Service Rifle and assorted weaponry from the 20th Century still in service and still in use. I'll yield to your superior expertise and not allow my experience to confuse you with facts . Your anger is amusing. I see a lot of that these days. Just out of curiosity jane either of you or do either of you carry professionally?
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Your sarcasm meeter needs calibrating. I'm defending the 92.
 
DarthRevan said:
Your sarcasm meeter needs calibrating. I'm defending the 92.
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m

I guess I missed that. I'm at Old Sturbridge Village. This weekend they are having the largest Revolutionary War Reenactment in New England. 1000 Rebels and Redcoats. Not a Beretta M9 or M92fs in sight [rofl] large battle scheduled at 2pm. Right I missed the sarcasm. OSV12E.jpg OSV4E.jpg OSV6E.jpg OSV10E.jpg OSV1E.jpg
 
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jpk said:
Try carrying that 92 in an IWB......getting in/out of vehicles, concealing under clothing.....its neither comfortable nor is it practical....plus the mini beavertail and hammer tend to get caught on clothing...things that may cost you your life
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Speak for yourself boss, you have quite the eye twitch over this gun. You can totally IWB with it and have it draw smooth if you care enough about any given weapon to make it work.
 

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They are all right; the one feature that I hate is the "backwards" safety, ALA the first S&W's - where you have to sweep it "up" to fire. Everything else I have/have had with a safety is "drop to stop" (the attacker).
 
Qwikdraw45 said:
They are all right; the one feature that I hate is the "backwards" safety, ALA the first S&W's - where you have to sweep it "up" to fire. Everything else I have/have had with a safety is "drop to stop" (the attacker).
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You shouldn't sweep it up. The safety is spring loaded, so you just lightly nudge it forward as you're drawing and establishing your grip, and it will pop right up on it's own. It's actually a surprisingly natural/fluid motion from a holster once you practice it a bit.
 
They are like women they need to be wet to be fun to play with. I used Remington dry lube for a few months the slide stuck on the first few rounds. Never effected the shooting it just felt funny. Switched back to oil and it was fine. Only issue I've ever had with any of mine
 
ochmude said:
You shouldn't sweep it up. The safety is spring loaded, so you just lightly nudge it forward as you're drawing and establishing your grip, and it will pop right up on it's own. It's actually a surprisingly natural/fluid motion from a holster once you practice it a bit.
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That's the trouble theses days, no one wants to practice....Opinions may vary. [rolleyes]
 
jpk said:
You use the "Choice of .mil paper pushers and bean counters" argument as if its a good thing

Look what happened with the selection of the M16 in the midst of fighting a war in a jungle.....these same folks told troops that they didnt have to clean the guns and didnt include tools/materials or instructions to do so when originally issued.

Selection of the M16 and later choice to move to the M4 is a perfect example of the fatal flaw of the argument you're using to try to lend credibility to the choice to abandon the 1911 and move to the M9/92

furthermore you fail to consider the intended application.....the beretta is pretty much exclusively carried in an external holster

How does that work out for the vast majority of folks? Not so well eh?

Try carrying that 92 in an IWB......getting in/out of vehicles, concealing under clothing.....its neither comfortable nor is it practical....plus the mini beavertail and hammer tend to get caught on clothing...things that may cost you your life

As for the trigger and grip......Beretta has been living off .gov welfare just like colt did for many decades due to the M16/M4.....they have stagnated.....the offer of the 92FS to public was an attempt to increase sales of a .gov product much same as what Colt did

Go look at your trigger options for the 92 from factory......then compare that to others......what? There are no options from the factory for the 92? Shocked I tell you....shocked....you can go to Wilson combat but other than that you're pretty much SOL

Look at H&K as something to compare/contrast this with..talk about options....

Bottom line is that like Colt, Berretta failed to innovate because they didnt have to and as such the 92FS is a one size fits some gun with a crappy trigger thats not well suited to CCW and self defense.
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A most interesting reply which reveals far more than it conceals. It does not work for you therefore it does not work for everyone so speaketh jpk. That comes off a bit snowflakish IMO in light of the fact that any general duty weapon will more than likely be issued to fit across a broad spectrum of individuals. The nice thing about individual procurement of pistols is that they are well, individual and you have well articulated why the Beretta is not your choice, but I'd stop short of a blanket condemnation across the board. The AR series of rifles and carbines as you suggest was one of the most vilified weapons platforms in American Firearms history, but today it might be the most beloved. Why, because it is a mature platform with over a half century of technology behind it. The same could be said for the 1911. You seem fixated on the US Procurement and use of the M9 and yet there have been several upgrades. The M9A3 meets 85% of the new pistol criteria and Beretta would supply all new M9s to meet this upgrade at no additional cost. The USMC also went over to the M9A1. Since you fundamentally don't understand the reason for the pistol in general military service, and you obsess on the US usage of it, it is pointless to continue to engage in any type of rational discussion. Obviously military pistols are belt holster pistols and for that reason those needing a compact pistol are issued the M11 aka Sig Sauer P228 the compact version of the P226 which you will recall scored equally well in the Pistol trials with the M9. The horse is dead. The Beretta will be around for a long time. People enjoy shooting them. Some people enjoy carrying them CCW, you don't but that doesn't mean that just because you don't, others can't or won't. Some people enjoy shooting firearms that are the same or similar to the ones used by the United States Military.

You seem extremely ignorant of Beretta as the oldest continuing manufacturer of firearms in the world and their other lines of both traditional sporting arms and other modern firearms. They are a world leader in firearms manufacturing and to compare them to Colt is ludicrous bordering on the absurd. You need to do some research on the major firearms manufacturers.

The rumors that I am hearing is the military likes the new Sig because of the modularity and ergonomics. I think we can all agree that ergonomics have come a very long way in the last 15 years. I'm guessing that you particularly like the new HK pistol but the truth of the matter is that the Sig can probably be individualized into more variations than the kama sutra and will sure to warm the cockles of any snowflake's heart. Now Markie's two favorite 9mms are very old ones, and believe me, Markie has owned a lot of 9mms in the course of his lifetime: He likes the Browning Hi Power and the S&W Model 39. They fit his hand and shoot better for him than all of the other 9mms. He might like the new HK but as long as he lives in Mass, he isn't going to deal with cripple mag issues. He has tremendous respect for the Sig 226/228/229 series and 3rd Gen S&W Autos the the traditional DA/SA system bothers him not one iota because he was trained on it and he just doesn't know any better because when he learned there were no polymer striker fired pistols. Markie is not advocating that everyone go out and buy S&W M39s but you just might find one in his holster, capice? So now that we have kicked the dead horse over and over again and why you are absolutely 100 percent correctamundo that there are probably better options out there than the Beretta for you, it just might be, that for someone else the Beretta just might work, and just might prove to be the gun for them.You have moved on. Hooray for you...if you live in Massachusetts enjoy your 10 round cripple mags, to me, anyone seriously contemplating a full or compact size 9mm pistol that takes hi cap magazines (as opposed to one of the new pocket 9s) the availability of pre-ban mags is a serious consideration which does factor into the equation as well. This is why I have a Browning Hi Power and a Hi Cap 2nd and 3rd Gen S&W 9mm, but I am very comfortable with the 9 of 9 in the M39, YMMV. I normally carry a 1911 these days or a J frame when attire so dictates (can't always dress around the gun I'm afraid) so that point is rather moot. For someone else it can be very important. But you know what's best for us all, I think I understand...there are people in the District of Columbia who share similar traits. You operate as a .gov hater but like so many would just love having everyone doing what you want them to do because we are all insane because we might like or at least can effectively utilize a pistol which you have probably never had to professionally carry or potentially depend your life upon, believe me that raises the ante considerably. Are you a talker or are you a walker mister jpk?
 
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Squire said:
Buffalo Bore started making this:
https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=389

15 Rds (and ease of open carry) vs. 6 rods of the 340gr. 44 mag fir Grizzly defense makes an interesting choice.

I wouldn't try to shoot +P+ through another gun, though I'm sure others would.
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this 9mm will not hold a stick to a 44mag or even 357 mag. Even the hottest 9mm ++P+++ is about half the muzzle energy of a hot 357 mag. As buffalo bore states, its for people who maybe have just 1 pistol and so theyre stuck w 9mm. But optimizing a 9mm for penetration doesnt mean its optimized for the job. Personally if i want penetration out of a 9mm round then i would want a 357 mag (not sig). YMMV.
 
jpk said:
Classic

Someone voices an opinion, provides data and reviews to back it up and Mark goes into the "I'm a Professional" mode and everyone else is wrong.

Beretta USA is not the same entitly as Beretta in Italy....but this point doesnt really matter because outside of a limited sporting market in EU their market for handguns outside of .gov/.mil gor various countries is about zero which is reflected in their product line.....with a few minor exceptions the entire product line is predicated on the 92/96 product line with a few dabbles into the Px4.......but nearly everything is based on a full size 5" gun with a double stack.....yes you can point to the token pico or tomcat but I would put money on the fact that you would be hard pressed to find anyone that actually owns on on this site.

Simple fact remains....beretta has existed for a very very long time on .gov contracts

Their HG's are not modular....they offer very few options.

Contrast it with all the rest of the manufacturers who HAVE focused on the citizens market

Sig/Springfield/Glock and even H&K make great efforts to manufacture guns that have more configuration options (factory triggers/etc), a range of options for sizing (hands) and a wide range of options for barrel length/width and are easier/more intuitive to operate

This is significant for folks that shoot and carry more than one HG during the course of a year.

And no matter how you slice it a 5" barrel/double stack is going to be far more likely to print than something shorter and narrower......simple physics.

If the ONLY gun you every fired was a 92fs then that might be fine....not like you're going to have a choice in LEO or .mil

For the other 99 million gun owners in the US the beretta isnt a great option

But dont listen to me....go out and shoot one side by side with guns you own and other guns you can rent then shove it into an IWB and carry it in the store for a few mins....sit down, stand up, bend over....do all the things you will have to do when carrying and then tell me that that 5" brick doesnt print/carries as well as something else.

Lets not even begin to open the discussion over caliber wars......
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Ya know sometimes it's not what you say, it's how you say it that counts. Beretta has responded with new designs PX, Nano, Pico etc.

You are determined to have the last word and even though many here have responded in the affirmative that they like the gun, shoot the gun, carry the gun, you have stated that "there are better options"...I don't think anyone disagrees with you there, but since personal weaponry is exactly that people like what they like.

I bow to your superior knowledge in all things.
 
Wow...so much hating on the 92.

I am not a big fan of the 92fs but I own several.

1. My wife and daughters like them, so they ACTUALLY go to the range.
2. I shoot them well.
3. With the Alien Gear IWB holster it can be concealed comfortably. But honestly it is winter carry.
4. I have shot them a lot and they simply work, they are accurate and reliable.

My brother lives in Texas and knows a retired gentleman who hated the Beretta when they moved from the 1911. He stated that a lot of the folks had problems shooting the 1911 in his unit but did fine with the Beretta. He also said he shot better. While he still prefers the 1911 he has no issues with the Beretta other than its 9mm.

JPK...you keep talking about options. In the military these are secondary weapons not primary. They work for their purpose and they are fun to shoot. If they aren't for you fine, it is a free country, but please don't hate us who own them.
 
I should have bought one when I started this thread. I saw they had a compact, so I was looking for one of those. When I actually looked at them, and seeing that they weren't really that much smaller I ended up going for the cheaper full size. I'm glad I did.
 

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