One guys exploration into casting bullets...

[mac1911]

Alloy spreadsheet:
I have it working on my laptop (iPhone doesn’t seem to want to let me edit fields).

my objective is to estimate how much “stuff” (wheel weights, pewter coins, range scrap etc) I should mix in w the pure lead I just got from a roofer. Goal is 9mm flat round nose and 9mm hollow points (all just for target practice). I started by putting in 10lb of lead and 1lb of pewter. It computed a Brinell of 11.5. Which brings me to my question... what hardness am I aiming at achieving to allow easy coating, sizing and chootin?
View attachment 408519
Separate issue:
You wanted me to mark the bullets and run them through the sizer. Problem is that I already ran the whole bag of 500 through the sizer. So I’ll have to cast and coat some new ones before I can get you an answer to the sizing die question.

If you need to make a alloy you can run something like this. It will give you 2% Tin
Another variable we dont know is your roof flashing. It could be pure or have a good amount of Atimony in it.
I had a batch of roof flashing tested and it came back with +3% antimony I have it right on 12 BHN with the pencil test.

 

[38ExtraSpecial]

Alloy spreadsheet:
I have it working on my laptop (iPhone doesn’t seem to want to let me edit fields).

my objective is to estimate how much “stuff” (wheel weights, pewter coins, range scrap etc) I should mix in w the pure lead I just got from a roofer. Goal is 9mm flat round nose and 9mm hollow points (all just for target practice). I started by putting in 10lb of lead and 1lb of pewter. It computed a Brinell of 11.5. Which brings me to my question... what hardness am I aiming at achieving to allow easy coating, sizing and chootin?
View attachment 408519
Separate issue:
You wanted me to mark the bullets and run them through the sizer. Problem is that I already ran the whole bag of 500 through the sizer. So I’ll have to cast and coat some new ones before I can get you an answer to the sizing die question.

Like I said before I really prefer a harder alloy for my 9mm.
The reason being that I need the hardness to keep from neck tension squeezing down my projectile.
This is a know issue in 9mm but it really depends on your dies, most importantly your expander.
You can use a softer alloy if you have an expander that’s .001” larger than the normal 9mm expander.

 

[NewBeige]

That mix in your calculation is a waste of pewter. You really only need about 2% tin. Your casting a bullet with out lube grooves even straight flashing will cast well enough.
Your going to be coating the bullets correct?
Just cast your range scrap for now. Keep your roof flashing and pewter aside for now. If your really having problems with mold fill out you can add pewter to about tin 2%

Mold fill out... I maybe having an issue w that. I did another run tonight. This is straight range scrap lead.




Any thoughts on my imperfections?

Also, after running a full pot and refilling it, I skimmed The top and got this crappy layer. I really hope this isn’t zinc wheel weight contamination lol

 

[38ExtraSpecial]

Mold fill out... I maybe having an issue w that. I did another run tonight. This is straight range scrap lead.

View attachment 408781
View attachment 408783
View attachment 408784
Any thoughts on my imperfections?

Also, after running a full pot and refilling it, I skimmed The top and got this crappy layer. I really hope this isn’t zinc wheel weight contamination lolView attachment 408785

You need to keep casting and get that mould hotter. Go till you get frosting then slow it down a touch till it just goes away.
That sludge just needs to be smashed against the wall of the pot. It’s all tiny bits of junk with lead stuck on it.
When you’re done smushing it you’ll be left with some fine dark dust you can skim off.
A little bees wax or candle wax helps with the process.

 

[mac1911]

Mold fill out... I maybe having an issue w that. I did another run tonight. This is straight range scrap lead.

View attachment 408781
View attachment 408783
View attachment 408784
Any thoughts on my imperfections?

Also, after running a full pot and refilling it, I skimmed The top and got this crappy layer. I really hope this isn’t zinc wheel weight contamination lolView attachment 408785

oxidized tin/lead and what not. Flux it back in and clean up the lead a bit. Your bullet wrinkles are either dirty mold or mold to cold.

 

[mac1911]

Like I said before I really prefer a harder alloy for my 9mm.
The reason being that I need the hardness to keep from neck tension squeezing down my projectile.
This is a know issue in 9mm but it really depends on your dies, most importantly your expander.
You can use a softer alloy if you have an expander that’s .001” larger than the normal 9mm expander.

never thought abot that. I had very little problems with casting 9mm. I cast 38 and 45 now mostly. I dont have to many problems with those.

 

[NewBeige]

Like I said before I really prefer a harder alloy for 9mm...

Please give a number or set of numbers I should be aiming at with the Spreadsheet for 9mm. Thanks!

And I know what frosty bullets look like but I thought that was from my pot being too hot not my mold.

I will spray it down w brake cleaner and make sure it’s clean.

I switched back to the regular mold because the hollow points were really hard to get the point to fill in evenly consistently. I was rejecting/recycling 3 out of 4 of them.

 

[38ExtraSpecial]

Please give a number or set of numbers I should be aiming at with the Spreadsheet for 9mm. Thanks!

And I know what frosty bullets look like but I thought that was from my pot being too hot not my mold.

I will spray it down w brake cleaner and make sure it’s clean.

I switched back to the regular mold because the hollow points were really hard to get the point to fill in evenly consistently. I was rejecting/recycling 3 out of 4 of them.

I aim for 3% antimony 2% tin
That will give you plenty of antimony for hardness and plenty of tin, possibly even overkill for good mold fill out. Especially considering that bullet design without a lube groove.
Don’t worry about a perfect fill out on the hollow point. They still shoot fine even if the bottom of the cavity is all wonky. If you did want to call some of them so you had the perfect ones for hunting or self-defense then you just shoot anything that is less than perfect at a target.

The frosty bullets comes from the mold being too hot. The problem is exacerbated with too high of a temp alloy but can still happen at lower temperatures just from casting too fast.

casting fast enough to get them frosty and then tuning it back until they aren’t is the best way to tell if you’re having issues with a cold or with an oily mold. Chances are it was probably just cold and you didn’t realize the mold was still cold.
also by the time you get it up to making a handful of frosty bullets usually you’ve burnt off any residual oil.

 

[NewBeige]

Got it thanks!

The acid test was interesting. I’d like to hear everyone’s take on this, 3 short videos. The 3rd video has a zinc vs lead wheel weight to use as a reference point. I’m off to melt more range scrap.


View: https://youtu.be/d6t8esEDPlk



View: https://youtu.be/vpUf8ybg6aI



View: https://youtu.be/Y7MElUHsQ2g

 

[mac1911]

Please give a number or set of numbers I should be aiming at with the Spreadsheet for 9mm. Thanks!

And I know what frosty bullets look like but I thought that was from my pot being too hot not my mold.

I will spray it down w brake cleaner and make sure it’s clean.

I switched back to the regular mold because the hollow points were really hard to get the point to fill in evenly consistently. I was rejecting/recycling 3 out of 4 of them.

The hollow point mold will take some practice. Also might benefit from some 2% tin or so
You get a hardness tester or at least a set of art pencils to test hardness. You might have to try water quenching them or oven Heat treat them.
Again i will say it sounds like your running in to many directions.
Get some time on the mold, theres no reason not to get decent bullets with range scrap or wheel weights. i made up that big batch of alloy to get 2% tin 3% antimony and 95% lead , tested with one of those fancy Xray zapper alloy analyser

 

[NewBeige]

The hollow point mold will take some practice. Also might benefit from some 2% tin or so
You get a hardness tester or at least a set of art pencils to test hardness. You might have to try water quenching them or oven Heat treat them.
Again i will say it sounds like your running in to many directions.
Get some time on the mold, theres no reason not to get decent bullets with range scrap or wheel weights. i made up that big batch of alloy to get 2% tin 3% antimony and 95% lead , tested with one of those fancy Xray zapper alloy analyser

Thanks. Any thoughts on the bubbles in the videos?
And as far as too many directions at once, that’s just what I do...

And any idea where I should be classifying these solders I have on the spreadsheet? I attached them since the website doesn’t seem to want to let me imbed photos right now.

 

[mac1911]

Thanks. Any thoughts on the bubbles in the videos?
And as far as too many directions at once, that’s just what I do...

And any idea where I should be classifying these solders I have on the spreadsheet? I attached them since the website doesn’t seem to want to let me imbed photos right now.

Lead free solder is usually 75-100% tin depending how much other stuff is in there like copper bismoth and such.

I treal any questionable solder as 50/50 tin lead , wire solder i get is in small amounts, i have thought of melting it all down into one batch and having it tested. i hsve a supply of known alloy solder for tin needs so im in no rush to use the wire solder. maybe in 5-10 years when i accumulated 100 lbs of random scraps i will blend it all together and have it tested like i did this spring. To get my 2/3/95 alloy

 

[NewBeige]

Ok so results of the day are 90 lbs smelted from range scrap only. No random wheel weights added...

I can’t add photos from my phone anymore so the following attachments and video are today’s haul:


How ya like them bubbles? Muriatic acid bubbling on my fresh range scrap

View: https://youtu.be/cKCjB8w2RvU

At 7000 grains lb, 90lb is 5040 bullets of 125 gr 9mm. I think...

 

[mac1911]

Ok so results of the day are 90 lbs smelted from range scrap only. No random wheel weights added...

I can’t add photos from my phone anymore so the following attachments and video are today’s haul:


How ya like them bubbles? Muriatic acid bubbling on my fresh range scrap

View: https://youtu.be/cKCjB8w2RvU

At 7000 grains lb, 90lb is 5040 bullets of 125 gr 9mm. I think...

i dont see much fizzing? I dont rely on the acid test.
The acid could be reacting to other elements also.

That said range scrap can have home made alloy in it. Which in turn could easily have zinc in it.
Run it to temp and cast some bullets. I bet it will cast fine.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ft82C6jQq30

 

[NewBeige]

i dont see much fizzing? I dont rely on the acid test.
The acid could be reacting to other elements also.

That said range scrap can have home made alloy in it. Which in turn could easily have zinc in it.
Run it to temp and cast some bullets. I bet it will cast fine.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ft82C6jQq30

I could see some bubbling. Particularly in the “D”.

Looks like I need to find a source of solder for the tin and a source of antimony so I can try to make my next two batches of lead alloy. I have 11lbs off roof lead that Mike suggested I assume was 100% lead, so I was going to try to add pewter and solder in proper ratios to get it down to 95/3/2 to see how that works. I also have a bunch of clip on wheel weights that I’m ready to cook up and will need solder and pewter. I’m still having a hard time getting the spreadsheet to come out to 95/3/2 Using just those three inputs. Right now I have 40lb of wheel weights, .5lb 50/50 Solder and .8lb of pewter. That arrives at 94/3/3 approximately with hardness at 12.2. Should I stop there?

And should I stay away from the silver bearing solder?

 

[38ExtraSpecial]

I could see some bubbling. Particularly in the “D”.

Looks like I need to find a source of solder for the tin and a source of antimony so I can try to make my next two batches of lead alloy. I have 11lbs off roof lead that Mike suggested I assume was 100% lead, so I was going to try to add pewter and solder in proper ratios to get it down to 95/3/2 to see how that works. I also have a bunch of clip on wheel weights that I’m ready to cook up and will need solder and pewter. I’m still having a hard time getting the spreadsheet to come out to 95/3/2 Using just those three inputs. Right now I have 40lb of wheel weights, .5lb 50/50 Solder and .8lb of pewter. That arrives at 94/3/3 approximately with hardness at 12.2. Should I stop there?

That’s totally fine. The bullets should cast beautifully with 3% tin.

 

[mac1911]

I could see some bubbling. Particularly in the “D”.

Looks like I need to find a source of solder for the tin and a source of antimony so I can try to make my next two batches of lead alloy. I have 11lbs off roof lead that Mike suggested I assume was 100% lead, so I was going to try to add pewter and solder in proper ratios to get it down to 95/3/2 to see how that works. I also have a bunch of clip on wheel weights that I’m ready to cook up and will need solder and pewter. I’m still having a hard time getting the spreadsheet to come out to 95/3/2 Using just those three inputs. Right now I have 40lb of wheel weights, .5lb 50/50 Solder and .8lb of pewter. That arrives at 94/3/3 approximately with hardness at 12.2. Should I stop there?

And should I stay away from the silver bearing solder?

thats pretty much what I did over the spring. I gathered up all my odds and ends and made 1 big batch of alloy.
Crank up the smelting pot, get out the Thermometer and mix it up. Give it a good fluxing with saw dust or such and pour some nice ignots and get to casting. If you think you need harder water quench the bullets as they drop from the mold, then give them a few days to age harden

 

[Demoman]

Save the alloy put it aside. I just sold my house living in the wind for the next 3 weeks after that I'll give you my address and I will xrf test it for you and let you know what you have

 

[J.A.C]

I use a small , cast iron pan that I think is a egg cooker. Small stainless condement cups work you just need to mark tbe level. If i think i need to add tin to my alloy , i usually do it in the casting pot after i smelt what every alloy and scrap pewter i have.
i put aprox 18lbs of alloy in my lee bottom pour.
If i feel like I need tin i will drop aprox 3oz of tin in and flux it well.


I picked up one of these at a yard sale

Robot or human?

- 80% of my casting/smelting gear comes from local yard sales and such. Also again just mention what your looking for often. I mentioned I needed lead at a nieghbor hood party and one of nieghbors relatives says " take what you want out of my truck" he had aprox 100lbs flashing and a bucket of large sinkers missing they "eyelets" .

Found similar cups at wal mart on the clearance rack. 8 for like 2.89 . i also made zinc ignots with them. i knew a old timer who paid my extra to melt my zinc wheel weignts for him. He used them for cannon balls.

This Times a thousand. Don’t be afraid to share with people you know and neighbors what you are looking for in general. Earlier in the summer I needed some flag and field stone. My daughter was playing in a neighbors backyard. They had a pile of good size field stone. I commented nice pile half joking and the father said please take it all it haunts my dreams. Then said you want any flag stone? Yup!

 

[Fixxah]

95/5 is what I use. A 1" piece every few ingots to be consistent. I flux with the powder from Frankfurt Arsenal.

 

[Broc]

Save the alloy put it aside. I just sold my house living in the wind for the next 3 weeks after that I'll give you my address and I will xrf test it for you and let you know what you have

Can I send you a moonclip to XRF?

 

[mac1911]

This Times a thousand. Don’t be afraid to share with people you know and neighbors what you are looking for in general. Earlier in the summer I needed some flag and field stone. My daughter was playing in a neighbors backyard. They had a pile of good size field stone. I commented nice pile half joking and the father said please take it all it haunts my dreams. Then said you want any flag stone? Yup!

I would not be against a group buy for known alloy. You could add a little tin if you need more.
Free lead is out there but dwindling year after year 200lbs of this would last me a long while and at BhN of 16 would do well in my rifles.

Pallet Hardball Bullet Alloy Ingots 1000 pounds Freight Included 2%-Tin,6%-Antimony,and 92%-Lead

[email protected]

www.rotometals.com

 

[Demoman]

Can I send you a moonclip to XRF?

Yes

 

[Demoman]

Yes

No returns on samples

 

[Demoman]

No returns on samples

Unless you want to meet up

 

[Broc]

No returns on samples

No problem. I have one I stepped on so I can't use it. It is trash. I will PM.


Also, OP - I am loving this thread and the progress.

 

[Broc]

I would not be against a group buy for known alloy. You could add a little tin if you need more.
Free lead is out there but dwindling year after year 200lbs of this would last me a long while and at BhN of 16 would do well in my rifles.

Pallet Hardball Bullet Alloy Ingots 1000 pounds Freight Included 2%-Tin,6%-Antimony,and 92%-Lead

[email protected]

www.rotometals.com

I dont know why people buy from Roto Metals, they are pretty expensive. And $2.29/pound for a bulk purchase is expensive and doesn't include shipping.

If people are serious about a group buy, I can start Emailing and calling places. But we will need to keep it within a small group, 10, maybe 15 people. And that can cost anywhere from around $400 to $700. Give or take a few dollars.

If someone wants to help me organize people, I will start calling places.

I am sure prices increased from when I got bulk pricing a year ago, but I was able to get it shipped to Westford, MA for I think $2 or less per pound.

EDIT... (I found the Email)

See the screen shot below from December 2019.
The prices are shipped. I am sure demand is a little higher now. But demand in building industry might be lower, so maybe it nets out to zero and prices are not affected. I dont know.



Edit (2):
This is another quote for less weight

 

[mac1911]

I dont know why people buy from Roto Metals, they are pretty expensive. And $2.29/pound for a bulk purchase is expensive and doesn't include shipping.

If people are serious about a group buy, I can start Emailing and calling places. But we will need to keep it within a small group, 10, maybe 15 people. And that can cost anywhere from around $400 to $700. Give or take a few dollars.

If someone wants to help me organize people, I will start calling places.

I am sure prices increased from when I got bulk pricing a year ago, but I was able to get it shipped to Westford, MA for I think $2 or less per pound.

EDIT... (I found the Email)

See the screen shot below from December 2019.
The prices are shipped. I am sure demand is a little higher now. But demand in building industry might be lower, so maybe it nets out to zero and prices are not affected. I dont know.

View attachment 409361

Edit (2):
This is another quote for less weight

View attachment 409362

i wonder if roto metal s will discount for 5000# worth.
I find myself looking at roto metals more because of free shipping. Plus thier prices for smaller quantities are ok , not the best but not to bad.
That Nuke lead place in Bridgewater has to be the most expensive and I can pick it up!
Im good for about 200lbs

 

[Fixxah]

Keep your pot close to full and flux is your friend.

 

[pastera]

Purple haze is bad - do not do that in your basement unless you have a lab grade fume good. Not joking

Those bullets look like a cold mold and pouring too slow.
Clean the nozzle on the pot really well and get the flow going so that it takes less then a second to fill.