Odd twist on FA-10 Registration for C&R Firearm

[Jay G]

Okay, here's the scoop. I've got a Colt Official Police on layaway at a local gun shop (xxxxxxx). It's not MA compliant, but it is C&R eligible. I have my C&R license.

Now... If I understand things correctly, xxxx will transact this as a transfer between FFLs. They record the transaction in their book, I record it in mine. That satisfies the Federal requirement for transfering a firearm.

As for the state requirement, I fill out an FA-10 form within seven days of receiving the firearm.

Now... The question... I assume that I still leave the "Dealer" portion blank and check off "Registration" rather than "Transfer" as the reason for the FA-10, even though the acquisition occured within the same state.

Anything I'm missing?

Thanks for your time...

 

[Emoto]

Boy, that's a good one. I would do exactly as you say, but cannot advise you about whether it is proper or not.

 

[Garys]

I'd hazard a guess that since xxxx is selling this to you without doing a FA-10, you are safe doing this as a registration. At least logically that would seem to be the way to do it. Which is no guarantee as this is MA where logic is all but outlawed.

Gary

 

[vellnueve]

IANAL

I would also just put it in as a registration.

 

[MikeYarosh]

It is my understanding that the transaction, as described, would be illegal. xxxx would be the one breaking the law.
The fact that you're a CR has no bearing on his requirement to sell only approved handguns in Mass to Non-Dealers.

Its a funny quirk, as I understand; xxxxx could sell it to any out of state FFL (CR or not) who then could sell it directly to you. All would be good.
However, cutting out the out of state FFL creates a problem.....

THat's my understanding and reading of the law.

 

[Emoto]

It is my understanding that the transaction, as described, would be illegal. xxxxx would be the one breaking the law.
The fact that you're a CR has no bearing on his requirement to sell only approved handguns in Mass to Non-Dealers.

Its a funny quirk, as I understand; xxxx could sell it to any out of state FFL (CR or not) who then could sell it directly to you. All would be good.
However, cutting out the out of state FFL creates a problem.....

THat's my understanding and reading of the law.

One caveat: if the gun has already been in MA since before (1994?) then it would be ok for the retailer to transfer to a resident, right?

 

[Len-2A Training]

One caveat: if the gun has already been in MA since before (1994?) then it would be ok for the retailer to transfer to a resident, right?

10/21/98 and yes, it would be grandfathered if that were documentable.

I believe that Mike Yarosh is correct from a legal point of view. The dealer is trying to do an end-run on the law. However, as we've pointed out before, if the deal goes down as described, the FA-10 is filed as Registration, the only one who's neck is on the chopping block is the dealer's.

 

[Jay G]

So I should leave the dealer's name (sorry about that; I thought that since it was in-state it was okay, but looking at it now I can see the wisdom in removing the name...) off the FA-10 just like if I were ordering a C&R gun from a dealer outside the state then.

Cool.

And believe me, I do NOT want to get this dealer in trouble, as they have other C&R eligible guns I have my eye on...

 

[Emoto]

None of us wants to get a dealer in trouble. I, for one, am not going to assume that the dealer is doing anything but operating in an entirely legal manner.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Yes, anything that one could think that the AG might be "interested in" means it is probably best to NOT post the dealer's name.

There are many things (e.g. C&R FFLs getting "mail-order" guns) that if the wrong people became "consciously aware" could mean legislation or regulation to shut those avenues down, thus it is always safer to err on the side of caution.

 

[vellnueve]

Well, the transfer would certainly be legal from a federal point of view at least.

Perhaps find a out of state C&R holder who would be willing to act as an intemediary.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Well, the transfer would certainly be legal from a federal point of view at least.

Perhaps find a out of state C&R holder who would be willing to act as an intemediary.

Yes.

Remember C&R FFLs are NOT allowed to be "dealers" so having one facilitate a sale to another would actually be illegal per BATFE Regs.

Here's an interesting twist!

IIRC, there is a local dealer who told me that he has both a C&R FFL and an 01 Dealer FFL. I wonder if he can legally (state and Fed) sell one of his personally owned C&R guns to another C&R FFL in-state from his C&R BB (NOT his Dealer BB) or is he restricted to putting everything thru his Dealer FFL BB? [Not being a dealer, I have no idea what regulatory restrictions they may have to deal with in this regard.]

 

[vellnueve]

Good point.

This state is so screwed up. But we all already knew that.

 

[Garys]

IIRC, there is a local dealer who told me that he has both a C&R FFL and an 01 Dealer FFL. I wonder if he can legally (state and Fed) sell one of his personally owned C&R guns to another C&R FFL in-state from his C&R BB (NOT his Dealer BB) or is he restricted to putting everything thru his Dealer FFL BB? [Not being a dealer, I have no idea what regulatory restrictions they may have to deal with in this regard.]

I think it would depend on if it were a personal acquisition or a professional acquisition. From what I've read the BATFE requires dealers to keep the two strictly separate. So, if he bought that as an 01 dealer, he'd have to sell it as an 01 dealer. If he bought it as an 03 C&R, he could then sell it to another C&R. That's just a guess. Of course, he could always transfer it out of state to a dealer who could sell it to Jay since it's a C&R gun. That's if Mike is correct, which I don't know but will assume.

Gary

 

[vellnueve]

Wouldn't you then be able to transfer it between your 01 and your 03?

 

[Chris]

Wouldn't you then be able to transfer it between your 01 and your 03?

I wonder what kind of fee he'd charge for that transfer. (^_^)


Sorry, I just had to get into this crazy discussion. Isn't it amazing all the freaking hoops that exist for legal sales when the gang bangers just get whatever the hell they want?