NZ man has airguns and crossbow confiscated because he's a right wing Trump supporter

[milktree]

Lol, Im Polish, Russian and Irish. Depending on how stringent someones criteria is, I may not even qualify as being genetically "white" and my people were also the "product of bad lazy people...", etc.

I'm Italian, Swedish, and... I dunno, French and English? My name is Italian, so that would have put me in the "dirty people" group through the '60s or so.

You can bury your head in the sand and virtue signal til the cows come home but the truth is people are different. The behavior of individuals is impossible to predict, but not so much with groups of people. The country was founded by white christian people who shared a common set of values.

Kinda... They were mostly white, but religiously and socially quite different. Religious intolerance was pretty common in the American colonies. Catholics and Jews were the "dirty people" before the Irish and the Italians. Quakers and Shakers (that ... sounds weird) and Catholics and Methodists and Lutherans didn't exactly see eye-to-eye on things.

America's True History of Religious Tolerance | History | Smithsonian

It's not like it all went away with a couple hundred years of "assimilation". Pretty much every other part of the country thinks New Englanders have some crazy puritanical views on the world. (and they're right. I was born and grew up here and it's quite clearly true)

They had a code they chose to live by. Things they valued and things they abhorred. The system of gov they instilled depended on people sharing those values. Individuals from wherever may or may not choose to live by that same code. Groups of people tend to live by the code they brought with them.

Brown people coming here and marrying with whites may or may not be an issue. Brown people coming here and publicly stating they are going to do their best to one way or another breed another group out of existence will eventually be a problem.

How do you imagine "breeding another group out of existence" without "interbreeding"? Do you imagine they're going to keep other people from having children?

Its one thing if someone says they love your daughter and want to marry her and start a family. Its another when they laugh in your face and tell you your grand babies are going to be brown. I dont think anyone of any color would appreciate that (aside from virtue signaling white "males")

Wat? You're either suggesting rape, or deliberate intermarriage. The first is clearly bad, (and I don't think any group is suggesting it) or it's what you just said was OK.

 

[SpaceCritter]

Right. That's true NOW. But 100 years ago the Italians and Irish (and Jews, and Germans, and Chinese, &c.) thought of themselves as Italian and Irish and Jewish and German &c. first.

People from Chicago living in Boston are still "from Chicago", and I'd be a yankee no matter how long I lived in Georgia.

It's unrealistic to expect anyone to speak the Queen's English and adopt all the local customs (and maintain none of their own) after living here for only a generation.

You, SpaceCritter, are from somewhere. How long ago? Unless you're a native American, in which case I'll shut up. If not, your (great)(grand)parents weren't American, and came from somewhere, and had weirdo accents, and weirdo customs, too.

My granddad was born in Co. Tipperary. He was NOT interested in "being Irish" in America. At all. You couldn't help noticing where he was from, of course, on account of his accent, but as far as he was concerned, once naturalized here he was an American. Period. Despite the fact he passed on when I was ten, I remember that clearly. He wanted to be a part of his new country, and he was very much a part of it: many years as our town's postman.

 

[milktree]

My granddad was born in Co. Tipperary. He was NOT interested in "being Irish" in America. At all. You couldn't help noticing where he was from, of course, on account of his accent, but as far as he was concerned, once naturalized here he was an American. Period. Despite the fact he passed on when I was ten, I remember that clearly. He wanted to be a part of his new country, and he was very much a part of it: many years as our town's postman.

That's an anecdote, not data. For part of his life my Italian grandfather took an English nickname for the same reason.

None the less, you can't deny that there are parts of town that are Irish, or Italian, or Chinese, that maintain their language and customs.

 

[Cipher]

With European immigration you had neighborhoods that represented different ethnic groups. With third world migration you get "no go zones". We also have to shill out billions on modern immigration while prior people came here at their expense. Great trade off for...what? Its own sake?

Its also hard to divorce America from its European roots so it makes sense some Euros maintained their identity since the foundation of this country has its roots from Roman and Western European origins in governance and culture.

 

[headednorth]

How do you imagine "breeding another group out of existence" without "interbreeding"? Do you imagine they're going to keep other people from having children?

True that far too many whites are passing on having kids so they can travel or afford more stuff or whatever it is that theyd rather spend money on. It their choice but kind of shitty that people would skip having kids just to accumulate more stuff. Thats part of it. Another part is the government taxing people to death and those people being forced to do the math and have 1 kid or 2 kids when theyd really like 3 or 4 or whatever. Others are basically paid to stay home and breed. The more kids the bigger the check. Not unusual for Somalian families for instance to have 8 or 9 kids.

Wat? You're either suggesting rape, or deliberate intermarriage. The first is clearly bad, (and I don't think any group is suggesting it) or it's what you just said was OK.

TBH, I wasnt necessarily suggesting rape, but if you like you can spend some time digging through the FBI's UCR and decide if theres any trends that stand out. What I was saying is there is some percentage of newly arrived guests (and not so newly arrived) who are making a conscious effort to have as many babies as possible for the purpose of shifting the demographics of the country.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=te0RWJwi510

 

[falcon123]

"They need to stay where they are and fix their own country!"



Uhh... except he wants to restrict LEGAL immigration as well, and so do all the supporters who try to claim it's only about "illegal" immigrants.

Before you challenge me on that, ask yourself how you'd respond if we simply made all immigration legal.

Boom.

Here's some good reading for you.
Obama Imposed Immigration Restrictions 19 Times - Including 4 Times on Muslim Countries

Boooooommmmm!

 

[falcon123]

Go read KBCraig’s post again.

He didn’t say anything about making all immigration illegal. He said Trump wanted to RESTRICT legal immigration as well.

Then asked how you’d (one would) feel about legal immigration if ALL immigration was legal.

i.e.: if all immigration was legal, there would, by definition, be zero illegal immigration.

The only way to make all immigration legal is to remove all immigration laws and remove all border controls. Anyone who thinks that is a good idea is insane.

 

[falcon123]

Are you seriously equating "armed invasion" and "people migrating to work and live"?

A lot of these people aren't migrating to work and live. Look at europe. They're bringing in people from a certain part of the world without vetting them. Purposely overloading the system.

 

[Boston4567]

NZ shooter made a good point in his manifesto.

It's probably best to make your arguments without reference to how an evil mass-murderer agrees with you and made "good points" in his manifesto.

 

[Peicemaker]

Just replace NZ with MA and there is no difference between the two.

Yeahhhh... Not so much. 2A is still a right, so is 1A. Strictly legally speaking they aren't allowed to violate your 2A rights simply because you chose to exercise your 1A rights. It appears NZ has no inbuilt legal protections for arms ownership or free speech.

 

[milktree]

A lot of these people aren't migrating to work and live. Look at europe. They're bringing in people from a certain part of the world without vetting them. Purposely overloading the system.

Who are the the "they" in this?

Who is "purposely overloading the system"? The brown people? You think the people from away are moving into Europe as some sort of coordinated attack to bring down the economy?

Or is it more likely they're coming from places that suck, and Europe is a better place to live, even if it has the side effect of stressing "the system"?

 

[milktree]

The only way to make all immigration legal is to remove all immigration laws and remove all border controls. Anyone who thinks that is a good idea is insane.

Nobody said that, either. Actually, there's a fair number of Libertarians who think that, but that's not even close to what KBCraig said.

 

[Cipher]

Who are the the "they" in this?

Who is "purposely overloading the system"? The brown people? You think the people from away are moving into Europe as some sort of coordinated attack to bring down the economy?

Or is it more likely they're coming from places that suck, and Europe is a better place to live, even if it has the side effect of stressing "the system"?

EU: How to Stop Mass-migration from Africa? Bring Everyone to Europe!

Soros Foundation Spends Millions Promoting Somalian Migrants

Germany sees migration-related spending of 78 billion euros through 2022: report - Reuters

Yeah totally no subversion or coordination here. Just replace Europeans against their will while the EU pressures more gun control on other countries. Nothing better than millions of highly tribal, aggressive foreigners come into a country full of disarmed citizens. Even their police wont do anything about rape gangs and looting.

 

[crispnipz]

It's probably best to make your arguments without reference to how an evil mass-murderer agrees with you and made "good points" in his manifesto.

But he did make some good points. Just because he is evil and did an evil thing doesn't invalidate every single point of view or idea he has. It's almost like you're saying that because of what happened in NZ, it is no longer acceptable to argue that too much immigration from culturally incompatible places is bad.

Just like Senator Liewatha Warren is overall a terrible leftist liar, she is a co-sponsor of the STATES Act which correctly neuters the federal government's power to interfere with weed in states where it is legal, and would clear up the gray area of owning and buying guns while being a legal marijuana user. A broken clock is right twice a day, or once in a lifetime in Warren's case.

 

[milktree]

EU: How to Stop Mass-migration from Africa? Bring Everyone to Europe!

Soros Foundation Spends Millions Promoting Somalian Migrants

Germany sees migration-related spending of 78 billion euros through 2022: report - Reuters

Yeah totally no subversion or coordination here. Just replace Europeans against their will while the EU pressures more gun control on other countries. Nothing better than millions of highly tribal, aggressive foreigners come into a country full of disarmed citizens. Even their police wont do anything about rape gangs and looting.

Neither of the first two are policies stated by the immigrants themselves, but instead by private organizations in western countries. So, that doesn't really support your position

The third is a report of costs.

What's your point?

 

[Cipher]

Neither of the first two are policies stated by the immigrants themselves, but instead by private organizations in western countries. So, that doesn't really support your position

The third is a report of costs.

What's your point?

You asked who "they" were and I gave you three sources showing billion dollar financing by private organizations and funds being allocated by EU states.

 

[milktree]

You asked who "they" were and I gave you three sources showing billion dollar financing by private organizations and funds being allocated by EU states.

Fair enough.

But those links don't support any assertion that there's any organized effort on the part of the immigrants themselves to overrun Europe or the US and replace us.

 

[Horrible]

Yeahhhh... Not so much. 2A is still a right, so is 1A. Strictly legally speaking they aren't allowed to violate your 2A rights simply because you chose to exercise your 1A rights. It appears NZ has no inbuilt legal protections for arms ownership or free speech.

2A is not a right that applies to the citizens according to the MA SJC

 

[Boston4567]

But he did make some good points. Just because he is evil and did an evil thing doesn't invalidate every single point of view or idea he has. It's almost like you're saying that because of what happened in NZ, it is no longer acceptable to argue that too much immigration from culturally incompatible places is bad.

Just like Senator Liewatha Warren is overall a terrible leftist liar, she is a co-sponsor of the STATES Act which correctly neuters the federal government's power to interfere with weed in states where it is legal, and would clear up the gray area of owning and buying guns while being a legal marijuana user. A broken clock is right twice a day, or once in a lifetime in Warren's case.

First off, a mass-murderer is not comparable to a politician you dislike. Unless that politician is Nicholas Maduro or Hitler.

Second, and it's absolutely dumbfounding that this even has to be said, stop praising the mass murderer.

You can state the ideas that you believe without reference to him. If the ideas are logical they will stand on their own merit. I'm not even addressing the ideas. I'm addressing the fact that it's both uncouth and counterproductive to your argument to keep referring back to this evil piece of shit and his insane manifesto.

And more importantly, it reflects poorly on you and it would reflect poorly on both NES and gun owners if any member of the public reads praise of the ideas of a racist, evil piece of human debris on this forum. Just stop.

 

[xtry51]

First off, a mass-murderer is not comparable to a politician you dislike. Unless that politician is Nicholas Maduro or Hitler.

Second, and it's absolutely dumbfounding that this even has to be said, stop praising the mass murderer.

You can state the ideas that you believe without reference to him. If the ideas are logical they will stand on their own merit. I'm not even addressing the ideas. I'm addressing the fact that it's both uncouth and counterproductive to your argument to keep referring back to this evil piece of shit and his insane manifesto.

And more importantly, it reflects poorly on you and it would reflect poorly on both NES and gun owners if any member of the public reads praise of the ideas of a racist, evil piece of human debris on this forum. Just stop.

This line of thinking is ridiculous. the idea stands regardless of whether you mention him or not. A good idea is a good idea. Sometimes good ideas get corrupted by bad people. It doesn't make the idea more or less good or valid.

Maybe people should stop ignoring mass murders and dismissing them as crazy and actually pay attention to WHY they do it.

This guy planned an attack for two years. That's not a crazy guy. It's a dedicated guy. There's a big difference and if you can't see that, you'll allow the very problems that led him to commit the act to happen again.

 

[Boston4567]

This line of thinking is ridiculous. the idea stands regardless of whether you mention him or not. A good idea is a good idea. Sometimes good ideas get corrupted by bad people. It doesn't make the idea more or less good or valid.

Maybe people should stop ignoring mass murders and dismissing them as crazy and actually pay attention to WHY they do it.

This guy planned an attack for two years. That's not a crazy guy. It's a dedicated guy. There's a big difference and if you can't see that, you'll allow the very problems that led him to commit the act to happen again.

I'm not saying mentioning the mass-murderer makes the idea less valid. I'm saying mentioning him makes you a jackass. And people are much less likely to listen to jackasses.

There are some things you just stay away from because they add no persuasive or logical value to your point and make it much more likely that people will react viscerally, with disgust and emotion. Praising a mass murderer's ideas is one of them.

 

[falcon123]

Who are the the "they" in this?

Who is "purposely overloading the system"? The brown people? You think the people from away are moving into Europe as some sort of coordinated attack to bring down the economy?

Or is it more likely they're coming from places that suck, and Europe is a better place to live, even if it has the side effect of stressing "the system"?

You need to get up to speed. Do you live in a cave?
What is the purpose of letting all these illegals from south of the border into or country without any restriction whatsoever? They are being organized to overwhelm our system and the Democrats are letting it happen.

 

[Dadstoys]

Fair enough.

But those links don't support any assertion that there's any organized effort on the part of the immigrants themselves to overrun Europe or the US and replace us.

There are lots more if you care to look.

 

[falcon123]

There are lots more if you care to look.

Still not enough proof for milktree.

 

[Peicemaker]

2A is not a right that applies to the citizens according to the MA SJC

Yeah, well, they can EABOD. The constitution is the supreme law of the land. The tinhorn tyrants here in MA need a good old legal smackdown to prove that fact.

 

[crispnipz]

First off, a mass-murderer is not comparable to a politician you dislike.

Why?

Unless that politician is Nicholas Maduro or Hitler.

Funny you mention Hitler but not the leftist Stalin under whom magnitudes greater of people were killed than Hitler.

I'm addressing the fact that it's both uncouth and counterproductive to your argument to keep referring back to this evil piece of shit and his insane manifesto.

It's not just his argument.

And more importantly, it reflects poorly on you and it would reflect poorly on both NES and gun owners if any member of the public reads praise of the ideas of a racist, evil piece of human debris on this forum. Just stop.

Honestly, as someone not from New England, this is the problem with you New Englanders when it comes to politics and perhaps a tell as to why New England is so blue. You care too much about what this mythical "member of the public" thinks. Do you think someone in Georgia who flies a confederate flag is afraid of what people think of him? No? Then why are you afraid of what "the public" thinks about someone's opinion about sharing a correct opinion with an evil individual on a regional forum about firearms? The public will get over it. I'm concerned our country won't get over the mass importation of people of questionable compatibility.

 

[Cipher]

Honestly, as someone not from New England, this is the problem with you New Englanders when it comes to politics and perhaps a tell as to why New England is so blue

Our conservatives are Idaho's left liberals.

 

[FrugalFannie]

Go read KBCraig’s post again.

He didn’t say anything about making all immigration illegal. He said Trump wanted to RESTRICT legal immigration as well.

Then asked how you’d (one would) feel about legal immigration if ALL immigration was legal.

i.e.: if all immigration was legal, there would, by definition, be zero illegal immigration.

Let's just look at Europe and their "open borders" policy and see how well that's working out.

 

[milktree]

Go read KBCraig’s post again.

He didn’t say anything about making all immigration illegal. He said Trump wanted to RESTRICT legal immigration as well.

Then asked how you’d (one would) feel about legal immigration if ALL immigration was legal.

i.e.: if all immigration was legal, there would, by definition, be zero illegal immigration.

Let's just look at Europe and their "open borders" policy and see how well that's working out.

You're getting hung up on a position you think I have, but haven't stated.

Or maybe you're making my point for me.

You can't say "I'm only against illegal immigration" and then point to places that don't have any illegal immigration because it's all legal as an example of how bad illegal immigration is.

If all immigration were legal, there would be no illegal immigration. Right? Just like if there were no gun laws, there would be no illegal guns, or if all drugs were legal there would be no drug crime, or if there were no speed limits nobody could get a speeding ticket. It's a reductio ad absurdum argument to be sure, but I'm doing it to make a point.

If you don't like what would happen without any immigration laws, you're not against illegal immigration, you're against *all* immigration. (with whatever exceptions please you)

 

[drgrant]

True that far too many whites are passing on having kids so they can travel or afford more stuff or whatever it is that theyd rather spend money on. It their choice but kind of shitty that people would skip having kids just to accumulate more stuff. Thats part of it. Another part is the government taxing people to death and those people being forced to do the math and have 1 kid or 2 kids when theyd really like 3 or 4 or whatever. Others are basically paid to stay home and breed. The more kids the bigger the check. Not unusual for Somalian families for instance to have 8 or 9 kids.

TBH, I wasnt necessarily suggesting rape, but if you like you can spend some time digging through the FBI's UCR and decide if theres any trends that stand out. What I was saying is there is some percentage of newly arrived guests (and not so newly arrived) who are making a conscious effort to have as many babies as possible for the purpose of shifting the demographics of the country.

I don't think most of them (immigrants, legal or otherwise) give a shit about that (making a political stand based from birthing kids) explicitly, but pumping out a unit every 9 months increases the $$$$$ of the government gravy train in this country. "Dowanna Worka's" lifestyle scales up radically from going from 1 to like 4 kids or more at once.

This part of the deal is a f***ed up tax/welfare problem more than an immigration one. That "gov paying people to have children" bullshit should have ended in the 80s, not still be going today. That bullshit is 1000 times worse than farm subsidies and other gov handouts. IMHO it's even worse than welfare because the scope is wider. It made sense when we needed bodies to power the industrial revolution, but now its just f***ing stupid, considering that not long from now we're looking at like 1 out of every 3 kids produced is virtually guaranteed to be a lifetime oxygen thief right out of the womb.

-Mike