Nothing Good Can Come of This...

[C-pher]

Youths' gun use stirring alarm

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2005/11/09/youths_gun_use_stirring_alarm/

Half of the 632 people arrested or sought in Boston on illegal gun possession and gun assault charges through Oct. 31 this year are 21 or younger, Police Department statistics show. Seventy-five were 17 and under...

And yet, with the law saying that you have to be 21 to own a handgun, let's just make the law more strict. That will show the criminals.

Oh wait, criminals don't obey the law. Hell, if I remember correctly, that's why they are CALLED a criminal.

 

[mark056]

I always find it odd that the stricter the gun control laws, the more prolific the gun crime. One would think that by this time the politicians and the do-gooders would figure out that gun control does not equate to crime control.

Well...I guess the handwriting is on the wall. We have to stand ready for yet another assault on our rights: the Boston crime stats, the school shooting in Tennessee. BOHICA ! (for those not familiar with the term it is an ancient U.S. military acronym that translated is: Bend Over, Here It Comes Again !)

Regards,

Mark

 

[Weerd Beard]

I say this again and again whenever I talk to a gun-grabber: I show them this.

and ask them if they would put it on thier front door. I have yet to recive an answer. The closest I got was "I have no need for a sign like that" (He was from Northern Europe, and there was a slight language barrier.)

Nobody would! that would be "Inviting trouble" how is this any differnt from a city or town where the citizens are restrited in gun, restricted in PEPPER SPRAY (who the hell passed that one?????) and not allowed any electronic non-leathal defence.

It's like that line from "Big Rock Candy Mountain"
"In the Big Rock Candy Mountain, all the Cops have wooden legs.
All the Bulldogs have rubber teeth, and the hens lay soft-boiled eggs."

Rapeing and Pillaging ain't much fun if you get shot, or sprayed, or zaped....and that isn't likey to happen to you in Bean-Town.

Espeshally when Tom Menino is always talking about how we need more cops on the street.....

If I was a crook, I'd want to go there....as a law abiding citizen who has been denied his right to Carry, I won't go in there if I don't have to, and when I do I am packing my pepper spray (and my hand is usally on it or right near by while on the streets).

I'm not going to hold my breath while they figure it out.

-Weer'd Beard

 

[Lynne]

I always find it odd that the stricter the gun control laws, the more prolific the gun crime. One would think that by this time the politicians and the do-gooders would figure out that gun control does not equate to crime control.

It's not about crime control, Mark. We, who believe in the 2nd Amendment and our Constitutional rights are not helpless little snots that need "Father" to take care of us. We can't be kowtowed into following the masses. We think. We have the ability to understand what's going on, and THAT'S what they don't like. We can't be hobbled. It's all about control, and not the kind that stops crime. They want to take away our firearms. They can't do that outright, so they do their damndest to limit us and make our lives miserable.

 

[JuergenG]

WB,
how about these doors ?

 

[Weerd Beard]

I LOVE that poster.

A Human right is a great site (but sometimes a little heavy-handed for the un-initiated)

When I first got my 1911 I hung my range card up on the fridge...I kinda wanted to put it on the front door, but frankly in Mass I actully think that that too would "invite troube". Instead of the thug-variety, but more the gun-grabbing left winger.

Here's another one I get ALL the time.

"You keep a gun for defence? WHAT KIND OF NEIGHBORHOOD DO YOU LIVE IN???"

My neighborhood is VERY nice.

I ask them
"Do you wear your saftybelt in the car?"

they say it isn't the same.....I say it is.

-Weer'd Beard

 

[mark056]

"When I first got my 1911 I hung my range card up on the fridge...I kinda wanted to put it on the front door, but frankly in Mass I actully think that that too would "invite troube". Instead of the thug-variety, but more the gun-grabbing left winger" W.B.

That is potentially an all too true statement. Aside from that, there are some very practical reasons for not identifying yourself as a gun owner. If some people know you own guns, those same people might decide to go looking for them when you are not at home. When I lived out west, I lost three handguns and two rifles to theft. In this particular case, the perp knew I was a gun owner (a "friend" of a friend) and knew when I wouldn't be home, and no the firearms were never recovered as they were sold on the street very quickly.

A reason not to have bumper stickers or NRA membership decals on your vehicle: There are unfortunately some police officers who see that as an invitation to go "fishing" and you are opening yourself up to an unwanted traffic stop. The old, "your license plate light is flickering" line is alive and well in Massachusetts. I was repeatedly the subject of bogus traffic stops from 1999 to early this year as I worked the midnight shift at the State Police Crime Lab in Sudbury. Bolton and Maynard were the departments. Their motivation: I was one of the few vehicles on Rte 117 between 2300 and midnight going through their respective towns on week nights. Naturally, when I was stopped I followed MSP procedure, hands where they could be seen, and all my interior lights on. (the MSP has a video for civilians on how to act if stopped by the police, you can probably get a copy if you contact the Public Affairs Office) Their eyes got as big as saucers when I showed 'em my MSP Identification (MSP civilians carry ID cards). It was always the cops new to the department or to the shift that stopped me. The lesson here is don't bring unwanted attention on yourself.

BTW, I loved the photo

Regards,

Mark

 

[KMaurer]

"You keep a gun for defence? WHAT KIND OF NEIGHBORHOOD DO YOU LIVE IN???"

My neighborhood is VERY nice.

I ask them
"Do you wear your saftybelt in the car?"

they say it isn't the same.....I say it is.

There's a very big difference! Whether or not they wear their seat belts doesn't have the slightest impact on the safety of other drivers or of pedestrians. OTOH, the fact that people like you and I have guns makes the world a safer place not only for us, but for those around us, including those self-righteous gun haters and their families.

Ken

 

[Weerd Beard]

Great points Mark and KMaurer.

Thanks 8)

-Weer'd Beard

 

[SnakeEye]

totally agree with those points.
when you go to the range, you should have yourself a nice big hockey or golf bag to conceal your long guns when going to and from your home. no NRA stickers, no range bumper stickers. nada
Its much safer to have the neighbors think your an avid sports guy than a pro gunner.
i told everyone,my family and friends who knew i was going for my LTC that i was rejected , theres no need for them to know,i dont want them knowing and i certainly dont want anyone else knowing by proxy. People cant steal what they dont know you have.
concealed means more than under your shirt in this state, it means having a damn secret identity [lol]

 

[KMaurer]

Maybe it varies somewhat according to your local licensing authority's issuing policies, but I know that I'd have very serious concerns about just why one of my neighbor's was rejected for an LTC. As for me, I don't make a big overt statement about my gun ownership or RKBA beliefs, but there's a single discrete bumper sticker on my car and I certainly don't lie or go out of my way to disguise the facts. (It would be somewhat counterproductive with the on-line and local directory listings as an instructor.) If all of the good people hide their gun ownership, then the only people that the sheeple associate with guns are the criminals. Still, to each his own.

Ken

 

[Lynne]

Although I understand that some folks need to be extremely conservative in their letting on whether or not they're a gun owner, I agree with Ken. People don't expect me to be a gun owner and most of them are quite shocked when they find out. Sheeple need to understand that not everyone who has a gun is a bad guy (or girl as the case may be).

Not to get OT, but... I just finished an EXPENSIVE antique show at the Castle at Boston Park Plaza. I lucked out and got one of the "free" spots on Saturday right in front of the place. There was an older gent who was, from what I understand, filthy rich and quite a collector. He was waiting out front after his female friend dropped him off and went to park. He started chatting with me (I wasn't in uniform, but I had the badge around my neck so he knew I was security) and we were having a very nice discussion about antiques. I impressed him with some of my knowledge. Then he noticed my bumper stickers. (I have a couple Pro 2 A stickers and a few southern stickers, including the CSA one). He started reading them and I was wondering what he was thinking. He finally said, "Hmm, Confederate States of America...must belong to a southern gun nut." I smiled and said, "Well, I'm a CW re-enactor, and yes, I guess you could call me a gun nut." He did a double take. "That's your vehicle?" I nodded and smiled, "Yes, it is." "Oh." He remained quiet for a minute and then told me about an antique Bess he almost bought.

 

[Weerd Beard]

Lots of people know I'm a gun owner....but that's because I teach them how to shoot.

It's hard for a Ultra-left Liberal to want to grab all the guns when #1 they just spent an afternoon shooting, and not only didn't hurt anybody, but were impressed at what a controlled and relaxing sport it is

#2: had one hell of a time (kinda hard to ban somthing that you want to do again)

I illustrate my point with some pics that Ross was nice enugh to host for me! 8)
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a29/canthsrider/scarybithch.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a29/canthsrider/TVKill.jpg

The first is my Kerry-Voting former Roomate, and a Mosin Nagant (She did take the gloves off to shoot it)
And My Boss's old TV that needed killin'

Was a great afternoon! And for some strange reason the Kerry Voter wasn't so anti-gun that day!

And being forced to memorise Jeff Cooper's 4 rules never hurt nobody (and frankly they've saved a lot of lives)

Arrrr

-Weer'd Beard

 

[Lynne]

Lots of people know I'm a gun owner....but that's because I teach them how to shoot.

It's hard for a Ultra-left Liberal to want to grab all the guns when #1 they just spent an afternoon shooting, and not only didn't hurt anybody, but were impressed at what a controlled and relaxing sport it is

#2: had one hell of a time (kinda hard to ban somthing that you want to do again)

That's true WB, BUT, the majority of the lefties think that WE can't be trusted with them. THEY are different. Which is why Barbie from the Left Coast will probably retain her gun even after the ban...she's special, ya know. [roll]

 

[Weerd Beard]

I think you may be wrong on that one. "The Beautiful People" think they are high above us "Unwashed Heathens" so they are "more equall" than us.

But I would like to think that the vast majority of the Lefties do NOT think that way. If they want guns gone, they are willing to give up the guns they don't have. Or they are the lefties that in fact DO own guns, and enjoy shooting (they gotta exist....I've just never seen one).

To say if they lean left they're automatically a crazy hipocrite is wrong.

So I teach them too shoot, and we slowly win more protection. (A friend of mine who told me the Brady Bill was the greatest thing since sliced bread, and was worried about it being repealed just called me to tell me about how she got a chance to shoot an AK-47, and LOVED it.)

The big problem with the masses is they are TOTALLY ignorant. And why shouldn't they be, they've never held a real gun, and all they hear day in and day out that an AR-15 is a Fully Automatic high-powered assault machine gun, capable of killing thousands of babies and pregant women with a single bullet (witch must be somewhere between .50 cal and a large RPG).

Luckily it's VERY easy to remedy on a nice afternoon at a gun club or sand pit.

Arrrr

-Weer'd Beard

 

[mark056]

I can fully appreciate Ken's position, and he makes a very good point, I think, that we need to demonstrate to others that gun owners come from all walks of life and do not conform to anti-gun stereotypes. However, discretion is the key. When I get to know someone reasonably well, I will share my interest in firearms with them. I will even take them to the range, if possible. In the context of my experience, however, it doesn't pay to advertise to the world that: "hey, I shoot and own guns." It doesn't mean that I will deny the fact that I own and shoot guns either, if asked. I learned a long time ago that I could not save the world, but that I might win a few converts, one at a time, to my personal agenda and philosophy...gun ownership being one of these.

Regards,

Mark

 

[Lynne]

I've been dealing with way too many A-hole politicians WB. I hope your right. I do know that I've taught a few libs as well, and all of them have had a ball shooting. Some of them were even shocked at what they had to go through for a license, but it's the people on the Hill that we have to convince, since they hold the pens that write the laws.

Ken and I have done educational days at the State House with GOAL - course this was with air guns and before 9/11. (Have they had anymore FSED's at the Statehouse Ken?) A lot of the legicritters came to shoot (we had pics of elephants and donkeys and they could choose which target they wanted), and they had fun, but when it comes to REAL guns, that's a whole nuther ball game with them, no matter what we tell them.

 

[Weerd Beard]

To say a politician is a person, can sometimes be a bit of a strech! Espeshally one that sees a lot of press. Either side of the fence, it just ain't natural what they do!

Arrrr

-Weer'd Beard

 

[KMaurer]

Ken and I have done educational days at the State House with GOAL - course this was with air guns and before 9/11. (Have they had anymore FSED's at the Statehouse Ken?) A lot of the legicritters came to shoot (we had pics of elephants and donkeys and they could choose which target they wanted), and they had fun, but when it comes to REAL guns, that's a whole nuther ball game with them, no matter what we tell them.

No, they decided that the time and effort would be better spent on one-on-one efforts. The last few times the FSED drew a lot of staffers who were interested in firearms and the usual assortment of legislators who already liked to shoot.

The only time I got the tinyest bit in somebody's face was back in the early 90's. The new boss who took over where I worked was a serious asshat. He was trying to get several of us senior people out, and we were all pretty much resolved that if he managed to stay we were leaving anyway. He had worked a stint in Pakistan and liked to encourage a rumor (probably started it himself) that he was working with the CIA. Since I was teaching courses anyway, and it was common practice to have diplomas and other certifications displayed on office walls, I framed my NRA instructor certificate and hung it with the others in my office. No targets, photos, range bags or anything the slightest bit threatening. The boss had been a pest up to that point, but suddenly I never saw him any more. Even when he tried to fire us, he had his assistant give me the news. (We all left 6 months later after extorting serious severance pay and glowing recommendations.) I never once saw him, even though his office was about 50 feet down the corridor from mine. I got the word from some of the secretaries that he was scared to death of me and actively avoided the office when I was around. [roll] I later got the word that after we left three or four other people in the office joined the NRA and hung their membership certificates in their offices like wreaths of garlic. [lol]

Ken

 

[Nickle]

I'm with WB on this one. I invite several out of state friends up every year, and take them shooting.

It definitely changes their mindset, especially when you tell them that AK they just shot is illegal in their home state of CT.

Most left leaning folks CAN be reeducated. Politicians and true liberals are a different story.

 

[Lynne]

I agree that taking non-politico's to shoot is a good thing and will usually wind up changing their minds about guns. I've seen it. Ed's boss (who happens to be Jewish, Ross) came to Ed right after 9/11. Everyone knows that Ed teaches at his job. He told him that he decided it would be a good idea to get a gun. Now, he lives in NH, and at that point, he wasn't planning on applying for a MA non-res, but he wanted to find out how to shoot. We took him shooting. Now, he's bascially left leaning, altho not a complete lib, and he kept telling me he only wanted one for his home for protection. He didn't want to carry, etc. He was bascially acting like he didn't want to do this, but he needed to do it. He didn't look like he was enjoying himself. Until we started to shoot.... I witnessed a transformation right in front of my eyes after 2 or 3 rounds. The man is now a "gun nut" AND he applied for his non-res. Everytime I see him we talk about shooting.

The only problem is that it's the politicos that we have to change, and unless the folks (like Ed's boss) vote for progun candidates, they won't be voted out of office. Now, most people who are libs and suddenly love guns, will not vote for a pro-gun candidate because they're usually R's, or conservative, and they (the suddenly gun loving libs) are STILL liberal in other things. They don't vote 1 issue, like most of us do. Therein lies the problem. It's great that we're changing hearts and minds about guns, but until they really understand what's at stake, most of the libs will not vote the A-holes out.

 

[Nickle]

Changing the political climate some places (Mass for one) can take some time. Lynne, you need first make the politicians fear beeing booted out of office. I don't see HOW to accomplish that in Mass. But, it works in VT. Even Howling Howard avoided gun control while Governor up here. It's sudden death sometimes, a sure ouster from office.

 

[Lynne]

Changing the political climate some places (Mass for one) can take some time. Lynne, you need first make the politicians fear beeing booted out of office. I don't see HOW to accomplish that in Mass.

Therein lies the rub. We just had an election in this city (and although the city doesn't make gun laws, it's a good example) and less than 20% of registered voters voted. There wasn't anything on the ballot except for Mayor, City Council and School Committee. Nothing important. [roll] The majority of folks are ignorant of what's going on, and most of them don't care one single whit.

 

[Weerd Beard]

Another note on this is I've heard (I don't belive, but I've heard) that the Left may be loosing support on Abortion, and may soon abandon some pro-choice causes.

True or not, if the constituency changes, the party changes. So if a big crop of Dems all enjoy shooting, and a Dem Politition decides that a .22 Target Pistol is a "Deadly Assault Weapon" or that a person does not have the right to use deadly force to protect human life. Letters and words from thier own camp may cause them to abandon the cause.

Some people feel powerless sometimes when thinking about politics, but remember though we may have a figurehead who stands up for us, it really IS us who makes the laws, and this country.

-Weer'd Beard