Nonresident possession of firearms at place of lodging in MA

[drgrant]

If he is renting room from his formerly owned house, he won't have property tax bill in his name anymore.

This is true, if he is selling/sold the place. But if he has some kind of rental agreement, lease, etc, he can still claim residency.

Dual residency with ATF is easy, it's pretty weak to satisfy it if you read the law. You just have to essentially make a claim that you reside somewhere for an indeterminate amount of time. That's not even worth worrying about in this situation, besides, he's not going to be buying guns in MA anymore anyways. (hell I don't buy anything here either and I live here... or almost nothing)

-Mike

 

[Glockster30]

1. Many people claim an LTC is "void" if you move out of state, but only offer proof by assertion or by "someone said". Nobody has yet to come up with a cite.

2. You LTC can be revoked if you fail to notify the issue for change of address. If you notify your license may be "expired" (not revoked, but "expired").

If he still maintains a MA residency at the same house (address) where he obtained his LTC, it doesn't appear that he needs to notify anyone for change of address.

The following quote used by MA DOR that the OP cited in post #14 explains exactly what he intends to do to maintain MA residency. I think that it only applies though if his name is Alice.

Presence in Massachusetts Example:

Example 1: Alice owns a house in northern New Hampshire and rents an apartment in Boston, where she works 4 days a week. Alice spends 3 nights and 4 days in Massachusetts each week. The remaining time she spends in her home in New Hampshire. Alice considers her domicile to be New Hampshire and most of her social, political, economic, and familial ties are connected to that state. Alice takes three weeks vacation a year, or 12 days, all of which she spends outside of Massachusetts. She receives 10 paid holidays from her employer each year and spends the holidays outside of Massachusetts. For the year from January 1st to December 31st, Alice has spent 186 days in Massachusetts and 179 in New Hampshire and elsewhere. Even though her domicile may be located in New Hampshire, Alice is subject to tax as a Massachusetts resident for the year since she spent more than 183 days in Massachusetts and maintained a permanent place of abode here. As a resident, Alice must file Form 1 by April 15th of the following year.

http://www.mass.gov/dor/individuals...nal-income-tax/residency-status.html#PartYear

 

[noxin]

As someone mentioned, the DOR residency requirement is not necessarily what the police use to determine residency and even then it varies by licensing official.

 

[rhombus]

If he still maintains a MA residency at the same house (address) where he obtained his LTC, it doesn't appear that he needs to notify anyone for change of address.

The following quote used by MA DOR that the OP cited in post #14 explains exactly what he intends to do to maintain MA residency. I think that it only applies though if his name is Alice.

http://www.mass.gov/dor/individuals...nal-income-tax/residency-status.html#PartYear

A name change is easier to attain than a nonresident unrestricted class A LTC, and after all... if I self identify as a MA resident named Alice, who are they to judge?

Finally, shitty MA laws are working in my favor!!!!!!!!!!

 

[rhombus]

As someone mentioned, the DOR residency requirement is not necessarily what the police use to determine residency and even then it varies by licensing official.

My town is very reasonable when it comes to licensing, so at the very least I have a fighting chance.

 

[Glockster30]

As someone mentioned, the DOR residency requirement is not necessarily what the police use to determine residency and even then it varies by licensing official.

I doubt that various police departments have their own laws/definitions of legal residence, but correct me if I am wrong. He also doesn't need to notify anyone since he is using the same address. The only thing that might affect anything is what he already stated, which is driving with a non-MA DL. The LTC renewal application does ask for a driver's license number.

His arrangement will meet the Legal & Regulatory status for DOR (principle residence). I'm not sure if MA has a different definition of primary residence, but a primary residence is legally defined as similar since it too is associated with income tax collection:

Primary dwelling refers to a dwelling where a person usually lives. It may be a house or apartment, and at a given time, a person shall not have more than one primary residence. Primary residence is the legal residence of an individual, for purposes of income tax calculation or for acquiring a mortgage. Generally a person’s primary residence is determined based on the mailing address, telephone listing, the time spent at the residence per year and such other factors. On other occasions, a main dwelling unit on a parcel of land is also called primary residence.

http://definitions.uslegal.com/p/primary-residence/

 

[RKG]

The atf says you can have dual residency, so if your renting a room at your old house keep your ltc!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Not quite. The so-called "dual residency" that ATF recognizes applies only to the federal requirement that a person may purchase a handgun only within the state of which he is a resident. The ATF has no power to alter, amend or interpret governing state law.

I am not aware of any state that recognizes the principle that one may be a resident of that state while simultaneously maintain resident status in some other state. As Massachusetts courts have defined residency, a Massachusetts resident who intentionally achieve resident status outside of Massachusetts would cease to be a Massachusetts resident.

 

[snax]

I guess another question for MA residents with LTC is how do I obtain a NH license so i can take advantage of the much more desireable firearm selection while maintaining my MA residency and LTC. If Jose from El Salvador can obtain 4 different liceses in 4 different states... why can't I

 

[noxin]

I guess another question for MA residents with LTC is how do I obtain a NH license so i can take advantage of the much more desireable firearm selection while maintaining my MA residency and LTC. If Jose from El Salvador can obtain 4 different liceses in 4 different states... why can't I

Proof of residency is whatever satisfies your FFL. Some will take utility bills, mortgages, leases. You don't necessarily have to have a NH DL/ID.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

His arrangement will meet the Legal & Regulatory status for DOR (principle residence). I'm not sure if MA has a different definition of primary residence, but a primary residence is legally defined as similar since it too is associated with income tax collection:

Suzanne Bump seemed to think so.

 

[Len-2A Training]

4. The state issues non-resident LTCs, and many of these are unrestricted. Rumor has is the history of an unrestricted resident license before you moved out helps your odds.

Not a rumor to me. I asked Michaela and she confirmed that this weighs heavily in her decision process.

Remember, ATF residency and tax residency are DIFFERENT. Very different.

Yes, DOR wants their pound of flesh and really could care less where you call home as long as they get that pound of flesh.

DOR residency has NOTHING to do with Mass gun laws.

I would think a signed lease is as good as a mortgage, as that can be used to establish residency in any other state (that's how I'm establishing residency in NH).

The sale of the house is still in limbo awaiting approval for a mortgage for my friend who is purchasing my house... my plan was to put it on the market if he couldn't buy.

Perhaps if he can't buy I will rent it to him, he already expressed interest in that scenario.

If you have a signed lease with the new owner, you should be GTG to prove you are a part-time resident of that town. Thus, no notifications need to be made.

If I get a NH drivers license do I have to give up my MA LTC?. I have a vacation home in "Hampster".
ggboy

No, MA LTC and DL have nothing to do with each other unless your chief decides that they do.

I doubt that various police departments have their own laws/definitions of legal residence, but correct me if I am wrong.

You are wrong. Each chief gets to make up his own rules.

Not quite. The so-called "dual residency" that ATF recognizes applies only to the federal requirement that a person may purchase a handgun only within the state of which he is a resident. The ATF has no power to alter, amend or interpret governing state law.

I am not aware of any state that recognizes the principle that one may be a resident of that state while simultaneously maintain resident status in some other state. As Massachusetts courts have defined residency, a Massachusetts resident who intentionally achieve resident status outside of Massachusetts would cease to be a Massachusetts resident.

If this were truly the case, "snowbirds" would lose their MA "resident" status. I'm certain that DOR would still demand their pound of flesh if a snowbird dies in FL and had any sort of nexus in MA!

AFAIK, "residency" for MA LTCs has never been adjudicated in MA courts. If you could cite some cases wrt dual residency claims, I certainly would appreciate it.

 

[Glockster30]

Originally Posted by Glockster30
I doubt that various police departments have their own laws/definitions of legal residence, but correct me if I am wrong.

You are wrong. Each chief gets to make up his own rules.

Rules are not laws. Any known legal cases or cites where a CoP denied someone possessing another state's DL, since the LTC and DL are not connected?

Edit: Didn't realize that you already addressed this in your previous post, so how am I wrong if there are no known cases where this issue has been adjudicated?

 

[rhombus]

After thinking it over, I will speak with the licensing officer in my town first. If he's cool with it, then awesome. If not, oh well.

I certainly don't want to be the test case for establishing residency... and should I ever get pulled over and the officer does not like the fact I have a NH driver's license and a MA LTC, at least I will have something backing me up.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Yes, DOR wants their pound of flesh and really could care less where you call home as long as they get that pound of flesh.

DOR residency has NOTHING to do with Mass gun laws.

There was an interesting case in NYC where someone who had a hens tooth (NYC pistol permit) was getting divorced.

He had more than one residence, but his wife wanted the case heard in a NY court since she felt if was a venue mroe favorable to her case. I do't know the outcome, but here logic to the court was "NYC only issues permits to residents, and he has a NYC permit, therefore, he is a NYC resident".

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Proof of residency is whatever satisfies your FFL. Some will take utility bills, mortgages, leases. You don't necessarily have to have a NH DL/ID.

I've never had a MA dealer require anything beyond my MA LTC as proof of residency.

Why would a NH FFL require anything beyone a NH carry permit with a NH address (unless lack of photo is an issue)

 

[rhombus]

It sure does look like I'm good to go here with this opening paragraph... Not only will I still have a residence in my town, but my place of business is located there as well. I don't know if "having" is defined as "owning", my guess is it's not defined at all... but maybe I will take a tiny percent of ownership this year in lieu of a bonus.

Section 129B. A firearm identification card shall be issued and possessed subject to the following conditions and restrictions:

(1) Any person residing or having a place of business within the jurisdiction of the licensing authority or any person residing in an area of exclusive federal jurisdiction located within a city or town may submit to the licensing authority an application for a firearm identification card, or renewal of the same, which the licensing authority shall issue if it appears that the applicant is not a prohibited person.

https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXX/Chapter140/Section129b

 

[Len-2A Training]

Rules are not laws. Any known legal cases or cites where a CoP denied someone possessing another state's DL, since the LTC and DL are not connected?

Edit: Didn't realize that you already addressed this in your previous post, so how am I wrong if there are no known cases where this issue has been adjudicated?

I had MIL people assigned to Hanscomb Field (permanent duty orders) contact me some years ago when their chief told them no Resident LTC for them unless they changed their DL to MA (their home of record was elsewhere).

I've never had a MA dealer require anything beyond my MA LTC as proof of residency.

Why would a NH FFL require anything beyone a NH carry permit with a NH address (unless lack of photo is an issue)

I guess you never bought anything in NH/VT/ME!!

NH/ME License is strictly for concealed carry and no dealer up there wants to see it. They ask for DL. I recall Jim McLoud explaining this to me some years ago.

 

[joemoia]

I greatly appreciate your first hand account, did you not have a MA driver's license when you went for the resident LTC?

I did not have MA D/L when I applied for and received my MA resident LTC

 

[modnaru]

Have you thought about the impact on income tax?

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Have you thought about the impact on income tax?

I worked with someone who lived in NH but his place of employment was in MA and very frequently worked from home. He maintained a log book of each days work location so he would only have to pay MA income tax on that income earned in MA.

 

[bostonasphalt2]

I had MIL people assigned to Hanscomb Field (permanent duty orders) contact me some years ago when their chief told them no Resident LTC for them unless they changed their DL to MA (their home of record was elsewhere).




I guess you never bought anything in NH/VT/ME!!

NH/ME License is strictly for concealed carry and no dealer up there wants to see it. They ask for DL. I recall Jim McLoud explaining this to me some years ago.

So that's done great second hand info, but that's all it is.....second hand

 

[Len-2A Training]

So that's done great second hand info, but that's all it is.....second hand

Second hand to you, but first hand to me . . . as they called or Emailed me about the problem.

 

[bostonasphalt2]

Second hand to you, but first hand to me . . . as they called or Emailed me about the problem.

Did he speak to every FFL? Doubtful

 

[Len-2A Training]

Did he speak to every FFL? Doubtful

Huh? What does an FFL have to do with it?

The question I answered was about getting denied a Resident LTC when in MIL and living in MA but having a NON-MA DL!!