Nonresident possession of firearms at place of lodging in MA

[rhombus]

So... my great escape from post 7/20 Massachusetts is nearing it's final stages. I have secured a property in NH, and the house in MA should hopefully be sold soon. And since I am selling it to a friend, I will be able to continue to rent a room from him so I have a place to stay here when work calls for it... most of the time I am traveling to other parts of the country for work so it won't be all that often.

The only thing left is to change my residency... but it comes at a cost. It's going to be hard to let go of that unrestricted class A nestled in my wallet, but the thought of having that NH driver's license and the credit fueled spending spree it will allow will soften the blow a bit. Eventually, I will apply for a nonresident LTC but from what it sounds like, that could be a long wait. So in the meantime, I have a few questions about nonresident possession of firearms in MA.

After a bit of reading, it appears that having a valid nonresident hunting license allows nonresident possession for the purpose of hunting. Now I know that's going to pretty much limit me to a shotgun (and probably ammunition suitable for the game in season), which is fine by me. But the question is, does this LTC exemption cover possession at a place of lodging, not just transport to/from hunting and the act of hunting? If you look at the hunting seasons, I would pretty much be covered all year except for a short span from May to July.

Also, there appears to be an exemption for nonresidents at a target range, so this must include transport to and from. Would that include possession at places of lodging as well assuming the firearm is secured properly?

I'm just looking to be covered so at least I have some sort of protection when I'm staying here, and for that matter... I will still be hunting and target shooting here with my friends who weren't as lucky as I was to be able to escape. Obviously I understand this is Massachusetts, and the laws are written vaguely enough that anyone can get jammed up at anytime for any reason, but I'm just wondering in common practice if I will be OK in this scenario.

 

[Miamivice]

The atf says you can have dual residency, so if your renting a room at your old house keep your ltc!

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[rhombus]

The atf says you can have dual residency, so if your renting a room at your old house keep your ltc!

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[rhombus]

Although it sounds like I am good to go to keep my LTC, I heard that it is not illegal to have a firearm in your home or business even if you don't have a license, it's only illegal once you go out in public?

 

[drgrant]

As long as you keep a residency claim on your MA property you don't need to completely dump MA residency. The only people who can't do this are the ones who dump their house/etc and have no anchor here.

As far as the "gun in the house is exempt" thing that smells like old bullshit to me, wouldn't rely on it. I think all that stuff went out the window a long time ago. I've never heard of that being legal in recent
history.

-Mike

 

[rhombus]

As long as you keep a residency claim on your MA property you don't need to completely dump MA residency. The only people who can't do this are the ones who dump their house/etc and have no anchor here.

As far as the "gun in the house is exempt" thing that smells like old bullshit to me, wouldn't rely on it. I think all that stuff went out the window a long time ago. I've never heard of that being legal in recent
history.

-Mike

You just made my day, sir. I do believe I will begin a long night of celebrating now, so please forgive any erratic drunken posts I make later on tonight.

I was totally sure I was going to have to give up my MA LTC, this is seriously the best news I have heard since... well, 7/20.

 

[rhombus]

I guess that does mean that in the spirit of MA gun laws, any firearm I bring into the state would have to be FA-10'ed within 7 days, but that's not a problem because I would probably only ever bring down the guns I already owned in MA. Perhaps I will actually buy a Mini-14 so I at least have a semi home defense rifle that's still (i think) legal in MA. My postban preban postban AR is going to stay in NH where it is safe once I make the final move.

Anything I buy from here on out would most likely be illegal to possess in MA anyways, so not a big deal.

 

[Cuz]

Yeah, you read it on the internet so it must be true...


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[rhombus]

As far as the "gun in the house is exempt" thing that smells like old bullshit to me, wouldn't rely on it. I think all that stuff went out the window a long time ago. I've never heard of that being legal in recent
history.

It seems you are right, they closed that loophole (puke) with this part of section 10...

(h)(1) Whoever owns, possesses or transfers a firearm, rifle, shotgun or ammunition without complying with the provisions of section 129C of chapter 140 shall be punished by imprisonment in a jail or house of correction for not more than 2 years or by a fine of not more than $500. Whoever commits a second or subsequent violation of this paragraph shall be punished by imprisonment in a house of correction for not more than 2 years or by a fine of not more than $1,000, or both. Any officer authorized to make arrests may arrest without a warrant any person whom the officer has probable cause to believe has violated this paragraph.

https://malegislature.gov/laws/generallaws/partiv/titlei/chapter269/section10

 

[rhombus]

Yeah, you read it on the internet so it must be true...

I know it's not the end-all, but it seems legit. I think I will talk to the licensing officer in my town, and make sure it's legit with him. My guess is he will have to make some phone calls... fortunately I'm in a pretty pro-2A town.

And I do think my butt would be quite puckered handing a state trooper my MA LTC and my NH driver's license should he happen to spot a concealed weapon on my person.

 

[drgrant]

You just made my day, sir. I do believe I will begin a long night of celebrating now, so please forgive any erratic drunken posts I make later on tonight.

I was totally sure I was going to have to give up my MA LTC, this is seriously the best news I have heard since... well, 7/20.

FWIW there tons of people from MA with MA res LTCs who live in FL/AZ/etc during the winter, and they don't give up their LTCs, and your situation really isn't any different.

You might have fun around renewal time showing residency but honestly if it was me I would not cross that bridge until I got there. You will still have MA property taxes, utility bills, etc... most of the BS MA regular residents still have!

-Mike

 

[rhombus]

FWIW there tons of people from MA with MA res LTCs who live in FL/AZ/etc during the winter, and they don't give up their LTCs, and your situation really isn't any different.

You might have fun around renewal time showing residency but honestly if it was me I would not cross that bridge until I got there. You will still have MA property taxes, utility bills, etc... most of the BS MA regular residents still have!

-Mike

I guess the only question is, do they have FL/AZ driver's licenses? But my LTC is good until 2019, so I think it's worth riding it out.

And I still work for a MA company and will be paying MA income tax, so that's another thing I have going in my favor.

By 2019 my boss will be retired and I will have his job... and I won't have to work in my shop anymore, so it won't be a big deal if I can't renew. I won't have to stay in MA at all, I will either be traveling for work or doing reports which I can do from home.

 

[LittleCalm]

And finally, don't bother talking to the PD -- they typically know less than what is in this thread!

 

[rhombus]

Looking at the definition here, I think I can still claim to be a resident. Or at least I'm not a non-resident.

Residency Status

An individual is a full-year resident if:

• his or her legal residence (domicile) is in Massachusetts for the entire taxable year; or
• his or her legal residence (domicile) is not in Massachusetts for the entire taxable year but who:

1. maintains a permanent place of abode in Massachusetts; and
2. spends in the aggregate more than 183 days of the taxable year in Massachusetts, including days spent partially in and partially out of Massachusetts.

Note: A day in Massachusetts while on active duty in the United States Armed Forces is not counted.
An individual is a part-year resident if he or she either:

• moves to Massachusetts during the taxable year and becomes a resident; or
• terminates his or her status as a Massachusetts resident during the taxable year and establishes a residence outside the state.

An individual is a nonresident if he or she is not a resident or inhabitant of Massachusetts as defined above.

Permanent Place of Abode:
Whether a person maintains a permanent place of abode in Massachusetts is a factual determination. The Department of Revenue interprets a "permanent place of abode" to mean a dwelling place continually maintained by a person, whether or not owned by such person, and will include a dwelling place owned or leased by a person's spouse.

http://www.mass.gov/dor/individuals...-to-personal-income-tax/residency-status.html

 

[rhombus]

And finally, don't bother talking to the PD -- they typically know less than what is in this thread!

This is seriously so true. A good friend of mine became a cop a couple of years ago, when I first started hanging out with his buddies from the department I thought all of my firearms related questions would be answered.

It turns out he (a long time gun owner before he was a cop) and I knew the most about MA gun laws, even compared to the guys who had been on the force for YEARS. It was really quite scary.

 

[rhombus]

I think the fact that Massachusetts has such a hardon to consider people residents for tax purposes is going to save me in this case.

For once, shitty MA law works in my favor.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

FWIW there tons of people from MA with MA res LTCs who live in FL/AZ/etc during the winter, and they don't give up their LTCs, and your situation really isn't any different.

1. Many people claim an LTC is "void" if you move out of state, but only offer proof by assertion or by "someone said". Nobody has yet to come up with a cite.

2. You LTC can be revoked if you fail to notify the issue for change of address. If you notify your license may be "expired" (not revoked, but "expired").

3. Carry on an expired LTC, or an LTC revoked for any reason other than failure to file change of address is a civil, not a criminal, offense provided you have not become ineligable to hold and LTC.

4. The state issues non-resident LTCs, and many of these are unrestricted. Rumor has is the history of an unrestricted resident license before you moved out helps your odds.

 

[MAJoe]

Remember, ATF residency and tax residency are DIFFERENT. Very different.

 

[rhombus]

I guess the only problem will be, when Maura changes her mind about not enforcing the AWB on pre-7/20 purchases (which will happen some day), I will still be on that list.

But as I stated, once I make the move... the AR is staying in the (for now) safety of NH. I'll keep a handgun and a long gun down here for home defense, but that's it.

 

[rhombus]

Remember, ATF residency and tax residency are DIFFERENT. Very different.

As far as the ATF is concerned, I would probably not be purchasing any firearms in MA ever again... as for possession, I don't think they would care.

 

[bostonasphalt2]

FWIW there tons of people from MA with MA res LTCs who live in FL/AZ/etc during the winter, and they don't give up their LTCs, and your situation really isn't any different.

You might have fun around renewal time showing residency but honestly if it was me I would not cross that bridge until I got there. You will still have MA property taxes, utility bills, etc... most of the BS MA regular residents still have!

-Mike

If he is renting room from his formerly owned house, he won't have property tax bill in his name anymore. Perhaps it would do him well to have the electric put in his name, as a way to show anchoring. But, does the dual residency for the ATF still apply if you don't own the residence in the other place?

 

[rhombus]

If he is renting room from his formerly owned house, he won't have property tax bill in his name anymore. Perhaps it would do him well to have the electric put in his name, as a way to show anchoring. But, does the dual residency for the ATF still apply if you don't own the residence in the other place?

I would think a signed lease is as good as a mortgage, as that can be used to establish residency in any other state (that's how I'm establishing residency in NH).

The sale of the house is still in limbo awaiting approval for a mortgage for my friend who is purchasing my house... my plan was to put it on the market if he couldn't buy.

Perhaps if he can't buy I will rent it to him, he already expressed interest in that scenario.

 

[browncoat]

If he is renting room from his formerly owned house, he won't have property tax bill in his name anymore. Perhaps it would do him well to have the electric put in his name, as a way to show anchoring. But, does the dual residency for the ATF still apply if you don't own the residence in the other place?

Renting and owning are not distinguished at all in the ATF residency tests. Plenty of people don't own a residence anywhere.

• 
  

  

  Originally Posted by CRSIII
  Bite me Saudi shitheads!
  
  
  
  NES: where the "rights for me, not for thee" crowd hangs out. Statists, conservatives who say they are libertarians (but are really more like the statists), and the ignorant to the possibility of other view points.
  
  You don't own a "preban" Glock. Shut the hell up already and learn the nomenclature. Here is a hint: your Glock isn't f u k i n g preban!
  ​
  
  
  
  
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• 
  

 

[Cuz]

If the address remains the same then I don't think it will come up at renewal time because the old and new address will be the same. They won't ask you if you sold your house and are now renting it. At least I don't think so.


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[Rob Boudrie]

Remember, ATF residency and tax residency are DIFFERENT. Very different.

There is always "primary residence" vs. "principal residence". Ask the state auditor if you need clarification

 

[noxin]

I guess that does mean that in the spirit of MA gun laws, any firearm I bring into the state would have to be FA-10'ed within 7 days, but that's not a problem because I would probably only ever bring down the guns I already owned in MA. Perhaps I will actually buy a Mini-14 so I at least have a semi home defense rifle that's still (i think) legal in MA. My postban preban postban AR is going to stay in NH where it is safe once I make the final move.

Anything I buy from here on out would most likely be illegal to possess in MA anyways, so not a big deal.

Currently there is nothing beyond AWB restricted firearms and free state capacity magazines that you cannot possess. Any thing else you purchase in NH can be transported into/out of Massachusetts freely. I'm not sure when the FA10 requirement kicks in for items you bring into MA (might still be seven days), or if the clock resets when it leaves MA.


Good luck, have fun, don't shoot any dogs.

 

[rhombus]

If the address remains the same then I don't think it will come up at renewal time because the old and new address will be the same. They won't ask you if you sold your house and are now renting it. At least I don't think so.

That's what I would think. But, I would also assume that when I go for my renewal, the licensing officer would run all my information to check for any run-ins with the law... I have to imagine it would show up that I no longer hold a MA driver's license and in fact hold a NH license.

But maybe not... who knows, my guess is these things vary from town to town.

 

[joemoia]

I guess the only question is, do they have FL/AZ driver's licenses? But my LTC is good until 2019, so I think it's worth riding it out.

I have a MA resident LTC but do not have a MA D/L or ID. Its up to the issuing authority whether they require a MA D/L to prove residency. Some PDs require it and some PDs don't. In my case I have utility and cable bills which my IA accepted as proof of residency

 

[ggboy]

If I get a NH drivers license do I have to give up my MA LTC?. I have a vacation home in "Hampster".
ggboy

 

[rhombus]

Currently there is nothing beyond AWB restricted firearms and free state capacity magazines that you cannot possess. (purchased out of state)

Exactly, that's all I'll be buying from here on out!!! There will be plenty of time to buy fudd guns when the Clinton AWB goes into effect.

- - - Updated - - -

I have a MA resident LTC but do not have a MA D/L or ID. Its up to the issuing authority whether they require a MA D/L to prove residency. Some PDs require it and some PDs don't. In my case I have utility and cable bills which my IA accepted as proof of residency

I greatly appreciate your first hand account, did you not have a MA driver's license when you went for the resident LTC?