Non-resident LTC arrived, WTF?

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Got my out of state LTC-A today. It is restricted to target and sporting. Nowhere on my application or in the interview did I mention either of those things. The interview went well, the guy read my statement and said "so, basically you want this for self protection?" and I said yes.
One month, a trip to Chelsea, and $100 later, I get it for the two things I will rarely, if ever, do in MA. Awesome!
 
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I wish. I work for a company in Boston, where I'm liable to work odd hours, which is why I applied for one. I might be hard pressed to explain why I'm on my way to the range, on foot, at 11pm in the city.
 
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ixia -

Was this a first time application, or a renewal where you had previously been granted an unrestricted LTC-A temp non-res permit, and now were issued restricted under the "chelsea interview" scheme?
 
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I wish. I work for a company in Boston, where I'm liable to work odd hours, which is why I applied for one. I might be hard pressed to explain why I'm on my way to the range, on foot, at 11pm in the city.
Lots of ranges have 24 hour access key cards, and your car is in the shop. [wink]
 
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True, but they are now.

I'm willing to bet that it's marching orders from up on high!!
Well, that sucks. I'd bet you're correct, and once they start restricting them, they'll restrict all of them.

Doesn't that make it almost pointless for a non-resident to even get one? What benefits does it even offer at this point? They don't entitle you to purchase firearms/ammo here, you wouldn't need it as a non-resident hunter, right? You can come here for shooting events as long as you transport lawfully. I always thought carry was the only reason to get the NR-LTC.
 
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This was my first MA permit. I emailed the person that set up my interview and was told that I can write a detailed letter next year explaining why I need one, and that I would like my restrictions removed. I was also told that most permits will have restrictions, as per this letter that comes with the application (excuse the long wall of text):

June 1, 2009

RE: Restrictions for Non-resident Temporary License to Carry Firearms

Dear Applicant:

The Firearms Records Bureau (FRB) may apply certain restrictions on a non-resident temporary license to carry firearms. These restrictions detail the terms and conditions that govern the possession of a firearm under the license pursuant to G.L. c. 140, §131F.

The following restrictions may be applied to a non-resident temporary license to carry firearms:

NONE – the LTC is issued for all lawful purposes with no restrictions.

EMPLOYMENT – restricts possession to business owner engaged in business activities or to an employee while engaged in work related activities, and maintaining proficiency, where the employer requires carry of a firearm (i.e. armored car, security guard, etc.). Includes travel to and from activity location.

TARGET & HUNTING – restricts possession to the purpose of lawful recreational shooting or competition; for use in the lawful pursuit of game animals and birds; for personal protection in the home; and for the purpose of collecting (other than machine guns). Includes travel to and from activity location

SPORTING – restricts possession to the purpose of lawful recreational shooting or competition; for use in the lawful pursuit of game animals and birds; for personal protection in the home; for the purpose of collecting (other than machine guns); and for outdoor recreational activities such as hiking, camping, cross country skiing, or similar activities. Includes travel to and from activity location.

OTHER –

Restrictions are based upon the information provided in the license application. Please ensure that you provide a detailed reason for requesting the issuance of a license in Massachusetts. Include information regarding how and where you intend to possess or use a firearm and your knowledge and training in Massachusetts firearms laws.

If you have any further questions please feel free to contact the FRB at (617) 660-4782.

Thank you,

Jason A. Guida, Esq.
Director of the Firearms Records Bureau
Commonwealth of Massachusetts
 

drgrant

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Are you a non-US citizen? (eg, a legal alien).

The people at CHSB or wherever recently started applying that part of the law. Anyone who is not a US citizen will not get an unrestricted nonresident license. [sad2]

-Mike
 
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Are you a non-US citizen? (eg, a legal alien).

The people at CHSB or wherever recently started applying that part of the law. Anyone who is not a US citizen will not get an unrestricted nonresident license. [sad2]

-Mike

No, I'm just a regular guy. I have permits from Maine, New Hampshire, and Utah without any issues.
 

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No, I'm just a regular guy. I have permits from Maine, New Hampshire, and Utah without any issues.
That's bizarre, then, it sounds like they ripped you off, if they told you it was going to be unrestricted.

-Mike
 
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That's bizarre, then, it sounds like they ripped you off, if they told you it was going to be unrestricted.

-Mike
A few years ago, the people at my sportsmens' club (Pelham Fish and Game) were talking about how easy it was for an out-of-stater to get a nonresident MA LTC-A unrestricted, while residents had to put up with a lot of abuse from anti-gun, politically correct CLEOS and end up with highly restricted licenses. To make things worse, the nonresident didn't even have to be interviewed. Everything done through the U.S. Mail. I knew that one day, the cat would end up out of the bag and this "loophole" would be closed by the antis. This guy's story is not unique. All nonresidents have to go to Chelsea now for a "chat" with the bureaucrats, paying $100 annually for a mostly-useless LTC. Gov. Deval Patrick even wanted to raise the fee to $300/year! I can assume that will be next. One advantage that nonresident hunters have is that they can possess rifles/shotguns and ammo in MA during hunting season if they have a valid hunting license, unlike guys like myself who have to possess a FID and a hunting license. I do not know how out-of-state women who work here in MA will be able to legally possess Mace/pepper spray with these newly-restricted licenses. Nonresidents are not eligible for any type of FID card.
 
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So, if I lived in Utah or some far away state and was applying for a non-resident LTC, I would now have to travel to MA and go to Chelsea for an interview before they would give me a non-resident LTC?
Yes, so you can add plane fare, hotel accommodations, car rental and restaurant meals to the $100/year fee. That would be one VERY expensive non-resident "restricted" LTC. This apparently is what they want: discourage all but the wealthy or those non-residents who have jobs in MA that require them to be armed.
 

drgrant

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A few years ago, the people at my sportsmens' club (Pelham Fish and Game) were talking about how easy it was for an out-of-stater to get a nonresident MA LTC-A unrestricted, while residents had to put up with a lot of abuse from anti-gun, politically correct CLEOS and end up with highly restricted licenses. To make things worse, the nonresident didn't even have to be interviewed. Everything done through the U.S. Mail. I knew that one day, the cat would end up out of the bag and this "loophole" would be closed by the antis. This guy's story is not unique. All nonresidents have to go to Chelsea now for a "chat" with the bureaucrats, paying $100 annually for a mostly-useless LTC. Deval even wanted to raise the fee to $300/year! I can assume that will be next.
This has varied on and off over the years. Sometimes it was easy for people to get a nonres, other times they wanted the swan song letter and the whole 9 yards. It smells like it's back to that mode now, but it looks like they ripped off ixia here if they told him he was not going to be
restricted.

I do not know how out-of-state women who work here in MA will be able to legall possess Mace/pepper spray with these newly-restricted licenses. Nonresidents are not eligible for any type of FID card.
I don't really think the restrictions were intended to apply to OC, but who knows. The point is somewhat moot anyways since I doubt most women carrying OC in MA that don't live here are licensed. If they are licensed as nonresidents they're probably going to be carrying a gun instead. [laugh]

-Mike
 

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So, if I lived in Utah or some far away state and was applying for a non-resident LTC, I would now have to travel to MA and go to Chelsea for an interview before they would give me a non-resident LTC?
Yes. They no longer do mail in apps anymore.

-Mike
 
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This has varied on and off over the years. Sometimes it was easy for people to get a nonres, other times they wanted the swan song letter and the whole 9 yards. It smells like it's back to that mode now, but it looks like they ripped off ixia here if they told him he was not going to be
restricted.



I don't really think the restrictions were intended to apply to OC, but who knows. The point is somewhat moot anyways since I doubt most women carrying OC in MA that don't live here are licensed. If they are licensed as nonresidents they're probably going to be carrying a gun instead. [laugh]

-Mike
If this continues, there will be almost no unrestricted non-resident LTCs. You are correct: I personally know women who carry OC without a FID/LTC (my girlfriend is one of them). I gave them a word-to-the-wise heads-up and left it at that. If they get caught, they can take the fall. That said, a woman could use a container of OC on an assailant and then toss it out a car window as she drives away. No serial numbers, quiet, impossible to trace.
 
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If this continues, there will be almost no unrestricted non-resident LTCs. You are correct: I personally know women who carry OC without a FID/LTC (my girlfriend is one of them). I gave them a word-to-the-wise heads-up and left it at that. If they get caught, they can take the fall. That said, a woman could use a container of OC on an assailant and then toss it out a car window as she drives away. No serial numbers, quiet, impossible to trace.
I know plenty of women who also do not have a license yet carry mace/pepper spray. One was a former supervisor at work. I tolde her you need to get a license for it. She didn't care, even though it's only $25.
 
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To be clear, the guy interviewing me cut right to the chase and said "this is for personal protection, right?". The guy interviewing doesn't actually give out the permits, it's the director of the department.
The reason it was so surprising is that the guy read my couple paragraphs of reasoning, got the point, and didn't say anything was amiss. That, combined with what I've read about non-residents usually getting ALP, was the shock on the restrictions. No one "promised" me anything, there was just a matter of fact approach that says everything here checked out and I'd have my license in 7-10 days (one month).

I don't understand being against out of state people getting a permit. With all the talk of budget crisis, wouldn't the commonwealth welcome any extra source of income? They could ditch the interview, and double the price, and if people were assured they would actually get a useful permit they would keep doing so and save money compared to the current interview for a glorified hunting license idea.
 

Marlin

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I called Chelsea today to check on the status of my renewal application that I mailed in a few weeks ago, and I was told that I would have a long wait as there were a lot of applications ahead of me. I have renewed this license for 21 years now, so I hope that I would not be forced into a restricted license. But time will tell.

Marlin
 

Rob Boudrie

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iI knew that one day, the cat would end up out of the bag and this "loophole" would be closed by the antis. This guy's story is not unique. All nonresidents have to go to Chelsea now for a "chat" with the bureaucrats, paying $100 annually for a mostly-useless LTC. Gov. Deval Patrick even wanted to raise the fee to $300/year!
First off, Deval only tired for $250/year, not $300 :) The fee increase from $5 to $100 was not an anti-gun conspiracy but an anti-taxpayer conspiracy. They were raising the fee on anything they could think of, ranging from gun permits to licenses to sell milk.

The director of the CHSB told me he was concerned that they have no way of confirming the identity of the person who applies for a non-res LTC, hence the in-person requirement. There is always the chance they could improve the process to allow renewals after an in-person appearance a the first application, however, that is not the current procedure. I suggest you contact the person who interviewed you to find out what happened - I know of one case in RI where someone accidentally got a restricted permit when the licensing authority had approved an unrestricted permit. It's one pull-down on the MIRCS system, and someone could have made a click-o, or not noticed if you were approved for the good one.

RI already requires the applicant show up in person to pick up the permit once it's approved (but it's a once in 4 year trip, not an annual pilgrimage), and several other states (WA and NV come to mind) require non-resident applicants to appear in person, so MA is not breaking new ground with this concept.
 
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My friends father got his out of state a month or 2 ago and it didn't have any restrictions. He used to be a MA resident, never held a vladi LTC in MA. He moved up to one of his properties in NH, applied for a NH res and MA non-res and got both without an issue.

From what others have said, it will be useless to try to get an upgrade. I guess in this case your only benefit is that non-res permits expire every year so you might have better luck getting one next year.
 

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For legal aliens they put "Restriction: Competition" which they really have no idea on whether if its just going to the range to target shoot and compete with your pals or formal competition...I asked...not even on the list of restrictions they put on the memo so it falls under "other"
A refund request is not applicable as it is a fee to apply, not a fee for the license. They could reject you totally and still be entitled to keep the fee.

They started adding the restriction for non-citizens because the enabling statute states the the non-resident LTC may be issued to a non-citizen for purposes of competition. The current thinking at the CHSB is that this statute authorizes them to issue a license to a non resident, not citizen, for that specific purpose only. The individual currently is charge of the department is what I would consider a strict constructionist - he reads the laws carefully and tries to apply them exactly as written - which can result in some inconveniences for people used to the former approach that was a bit more relaxed.

Interestingly enough, however, a license with such a restriction would seem to be redundant for someone who is actually following the restriction as the exemption in Ch140 Sec 131g covers a non-resident in state for a competition.

The only two benefits of a non-resident competition permit are

(a) Reduced chance of confusion when encountering a LE not aware of the specifics of Ch 140/131g

(b) The penalty for carry outside of restriction is WAY less than the penalty for carrying without an LTC, so if there is any chance carrying for a reason other than competition or gun show can be alleged, the existence of a restricted LTC lowers the stakes.
 
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Do you hold an unrestricted permit in your home state? MA issues NR LTC with restrictions to match the minimum restriction of your home state.
Yes, this is the first restriction I've ever had. While the whole situation is ridiculous, I must say that the people at CHSB have been nothing but helpful and informative. From my experience, it's been a policy issue and not a person issue.

If someone is thinking of applying for a non-resident LTC, I *HIGHLY* suggest writing as detailed a reason as possible. I wrote 2 small paragraphs, the next time I apply I'll probably double that and list as many reasons and details as possible. Don't expect to skimp here and explain your reasons at the interview, that person has nothing to do with deciding your restrictions. Get it all down on paper fully. From what I understand, the director is the one deciding the restrictions and goes by what you wrote.
 
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Yes, this is the first restriction I've ever had. While the whole situation is ridiculous, I must say that the people at CHSB have been nothing but helpful and informative. From my experience, it's been a policy issue and not a person issue.

If someone is thinking of applying for a non-resident LTC, I *HIGHLY* suggest writing as detailed a reason as possible. I wrote 2 small paragraphs, the next time I apply I'll probably double that and list as many reasons and details as possible. Don't expect to skimp here and explain your reasons at the interview, that person has nothing to do with deciding your restrictions. Get it all down on paper fully. From what I understand, the director is the one deciding the restrictions and goes by what you wrote.
And conclude your detailed reasons with the statement, "and if you add any restrictions I will sue your ass good." I find that always helps.
 
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