Non Immigrant Alien wants to buy a Rifle. Please Help!

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Rahul

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Hi all,

I am a non immigrant alien, residing in MA from Feb 2010. I am here on a work visa, valid till 2013. I dont have a green card. I wanted to buy a rifle for target shooting purposes only. I am not interested in handguns or concealed carry.

I looked up the Mass laws, it seems I can get a permission to possess a firearm from the Colonel of Police, but am not allowed to buy a firearm in MA. It also seems that under federal laws, if I have a valid hunting permit, I can buy a firearm. (http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/nonimmigrant-aliens.html)

I am thoroughly confused, please help.

Can I get a NH hunting permit and buy a firearm in NH? If not, what are my options?
 
Since I have no idea what the actual laws for your unique situation my first suggestion would be to try GOAL to see if they have any idea, 2nd in line would be getting in contact with firearms law attorney for those questions. I can only suggest those 2 options because there is no getting around not having at least an FID to purchase here in MA.
 
Rahul said:
Hi all,

I am a non immigrant alien, residing in MA from Feb 2010. I am here on a work visa, valid till 2013. I dont have a green card. I wanted to buy a rifle for target shooting purposes only. I am not interested in handguns or concealed carry.

I looked up the Mass laws, it seems I can get a permission to possess a firearm from the Colonel of Police, but am not allowed to buy a firearm in MA. It also seems that under federal laws, if I have a valid hunting permit, I can buy a firearm. (http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/nonimmigrant-aliens.html)

I am thoroughly confused, please help.

Can I get a NH hunting permit and buy a firearm in NH? If not, what are my options?
Click to expand...

You must first get your yearly alien FID. Once you do that, you want to get an alaska year round permit. This is solely to get around the federal law on the topic for non green card holders. You then ALSO need to get your NH hunting permit (or any state) if you want to hunt.

And then you can buy a pump or top break shotgun or bolt action rifle (basically the FID friendly long guns) in NH once you have your MA alien FID. You then have to file an FA10 down here when you bring it into MA. If you are interested in handguns or semi auto rifles, shotguns, AR 15s, etc PM me and I can go over more.
 
terraformer said:
You must first get your yearly alien FID. Once you do that, you want to get an alaska year round permit. This is solely to get around the federal law on the topic for non green card holders. You then ALSO need to get your NH hunting permit (or any state) if you want to hunt.

And then you can buy a pump or top break shotgun or bolt action rifle (basically the FID friendly long guns) in NH once you have your MA alien FID. You then have to file an FA10 down here when you bring it into MA. If you are interested in handguns or semi auto rifles, shotguns, AR 15s, etc PM me and I can go over more.
Click to expand...

Small corrections: The license is actually an "Alien Permit" not an Alien FID. You need some type of hunting license, just one. The Alaska small game permit is $5 on line (I think). That's easiest and cheapest for you to get and solves the federal problem terraformer is referring to.

Under Chp 140 sec 131e, you cannot actually purchase a firearm in MA, but you can buy one out of state and bring it back providing you comply with the paperwork requirements that terraformer laid out.

Remember though, under MA firearms law all aliens are regarded as a suspect class almost on par with felons, drug dealers, and habitual drunkards.
 
Remember though, under MA firearms law all aliens are regarded as a suspect class almost on par with felons, drug dealers, and habitual drunkards.
Click to expand...
True, but aliens who live outside the commonwealth are less suspect as they are able to get a restricted LTC-A.
 
Knuckle Dragger said:
Small corrections: The license is actually an "Alien Permit" not an Alien FID. You need some type of hunting license, just one. The Alaska small game permit is $5 on line (I think). That's easiest and cheapest for you to get and solves the federal problem terraformer is referring to.

Under Chp 140 sec 131e, you cannot actually purchase a firearm in MA, but you can buy one out of state and bring it back providing you comply with the paperwork requirements that terraformer laid out.

Remember though, under MA firearms law all aliens are regarded as a suspect class almost on par with felons, drug dealers, and habitual drunkards.
Click to expand...

this is actually an issue I would like to understand, as I have an order pending for a .22 bolt action. Mass resident aliens with an alien permit issued based on MGL 140 s. 131H are regulated by the provisions of FIDs as per MGL 140 s. 129 B and C (notable exceptions: no grace period on expiration and annual renewal obbligation). Purchase is regulated in MGL 140 s. 131E as you mentioned, but the prohibition to purchase for aliens refers to "firearms", that is handguns (less 16 inch barrel etc.) as per Mass funky definition of firearm.

it is my understanding that the purchase of non large capacity rifles and shotguns and ammunition thereof in Massachusetts by resident aliens with Mass alien permits is allowed (different is the case for non residents)

any comments by any legal expert? any evidence that the contrary is true?
 
MMMAX said:
it is my understanding that the purchase of non large capacity rifles and shotguns and ammunition thereof in Massachusetts by resident aliens with Mass alien permits is allowed (different is the case for non residents) any comments by any legal expert? any evidence that the contrary is true?
Click to expand...

I am not a legal expert (rather more of a legal geek), but MGL 140-123 only permits sales of non-large capacity long guns to holders of FIDs issued pursuant to MGL 140-129B.
 
guys, I got my answer from the FRB director:
>Sales and transfers are governed by G.L. c. 140, § 128A and G.L. c. 140, § 123 (governing firearms dealers) – unfortunately, neither section >allows for the sale/transfer of a weapon to a permit holder.

so...I had to cancel the rifle order....

I'm assuming out of state physical purchases, followed by FA-10 transfers are legal..correct?

otherwise what is the purpose of this darn resident alien permit??? they just wanted my $100??? and why don't they spell out all these restrictions clearly in their FAQ section anyway...?
 
Yes, alien permit holders can legally purchase non-large capacity long guns out of State. The FA-10 must be filed within 7 days of the firearm entering the State. Check "Registration" and complete the form, leaving the "Seller" section blank.
 
Kevlar said:
I am not a legal expert (rather more of a legal geek), but MGL 140-123 only permits sales of non-large capacity long guns to holders of FIDs issued pursuant to MGL 140-129B.
Click to expand...

But would not the following phrase in 140-131H make the alien permit equal to a 129B FID card (with the exceptions provided in 131H - e.g. yearly renewal...), making it legal to sell non-large capacity long guns to 131H holders?

“The permit issued to an alien under this section shall be subject to sections one hundred and twenty-nine B and one hundred and twenty-nine C except as otherwise provided by this section.”
Click to expand...
 
Knuckle Dragger said:
You are correct. Section 131E specially states that the Alien Permit is NOT valid for the purchase of firearms or ammunition.
Click to expand...

I was under the impression that 131E a) is regulating rifles and shotguns and 131E b) is regulating firearms

Only 131E b) mentions "....that an alien permit to possess a rifle or shotgun shall not be valid for the purpose of purchasing firearms or ammunition or ammunition feeding devices therefor..."

while 131E a) does not exclude the alien permit to purchase rifels and shotguns..."a valid firearm identification card issued under section 129B" is necessary for the purchase.
The alien permit issued under 131H is per definition subject to 129B!!
 
hpm said:
But would not the following phrase in 140-131H make the alien permit equal to a 129B FID card (with the exceptions provided in 131H - e.g. yearly renewal...), making it legal to sell non-large capacity long guns to 131H holders?
Click to expand...

hpm said:
The alien permit issued under 131H is per definition subject to 129B!!
Click to expand...

No.

First, 129B does not address transfers.

Second, as you say, the permit is "issued under 131H", not 129B.

MGLs restrict FTF and FFL sales of non-large capacity long guns to holders of FIDs issued under 129B only...

MGL 140-131E(a) said:
rifles, shotguns and feeding devices therefor may be so purchased only upon presentment of: (i) a valid firearm identification card issued under section 129B...
Click to expand...

MGL 140-123 said:
...nor shall any delivery of a rifle or shotgun or ammunition be made...to any person not having...a firearm identification card issued under the provisions of section one hundred and twenty-nine B.....nor shall any rifle or shotgun be sold, rented or leased to a person who has not a valid firearm identification card as provided for in section one hundred and twenty-nine B.....In case of a sale under the provisions of section one hundred and thirty-one E the licensee under section one hundred and twenty-two shall write in the sales record book the number of the...firearm identification card issued the purchaser under the provisions of section one hundred and twenty-nine B...
Click to expand...

...and since a FID cannot be issued to an alien under 129B...

MGL 140-129B said:
A firearm identification card shall be issued...to...Any person residing or having a place of business within the jurisdiction of the licensing authority...unless the applicant:

>snip<

(vii) is an alien;
Click to expand...

...aliens with a permit issued under MGL 140-131H are prohibited from purchasing firearms within the State.
 
Kevlar said:
...aliens with a permit issued under MGL 140-131H are prohibited from purchasing firearms within the State.
Click to expand...
You are correct. They can't purchase Ammo either.
hpm said:
I was under the impression that 131E a) is regulating rifles and shotguns and 131E b) is regulating firearms
Click to expand...
You are mistaken.

Think about this: Why would they allow the alien purchase of rifle and shotguns but not ammo? (true apply logic to MA gun laws is an exercise in futility.)

Of course we expect all of this to be moot in the very near future. It just won't matter.
 
OK, another "silly" question. do massachusetts dealers know about all of this? because they seem not to, and all of them were willing to sale a rifle to me, until I got thee-mail from the FRB and cancelled my order. they were actually dumbfounded when I called them with the news...

and how would a purchase by an alien fly below the radar, considering they check the fingerprints and the permit with the system in Chelsea? should that stop the transaction? confused....

as for me, I'm going to have to shop in NH...better prices as well they tell me...
 
MMMAX said:
OK, another "silly" question. do massachusetts dealers know about all of this? because they seem not to, and all of them were willing to sale a rifle to me, until I got thee-mail from the FRB and cancelled my order. they were actually dumbfounded when I called them with the news...

and how would a purchase by an alien fly below the radar, considering they check the fingerprints and the permit with the system in Chelsea? should that stop the transaction? confused....

as for me, I'm going to have to shop in NH...better prices as well they tell me...
Click to expand...
That's in fact a great question. Most dealers are not aware that 131E prohibits sales of rifles, shotguns and ammunition to Alien Permit holders. They do it anyway and have never to my knowledge been called on it. I've discussed this with dealers and Alien Permit holders and to a person this was new information.

I've also confirmed that these transactions have taken place and presumable continue to. Partly this is because MIRCS accepts an Alien Permit as being valid for the purchase of non-large capacity long guns. I'm sure there's more awareness of the issue in the last week.
 
Knuckle Dragger said:
You are correct. They can't purchase Ammo either.
You are mistaken.

Think about this: Why would they allow the alien purchase of rifle and shotguns but not ammo? (true apply logic to MA gun laws is an exercise in futility.)

Of course we expect all of this to be moot in the very near future. It just won't matter.
Click to expand...

I hear you, but I can't find a restriction to buy ammo in 131E (a).

It's confusing, but here is how I see it:

131E (a) regulates the purchase of rifles and shotguns - and ammo therefor - and lists FID (129B) or Class A/B (131) as requirements to do so. The resident alien permit issued under 131H (131 H says: "The permit issued to an alien under this section shall be subject to sections 129B and 129C"...with some exceptions (eg yearly renewal instead of 6yrs) also falls into that category as the permit itself is defined as a 129B permit.

The permit issued to a non-resident or alien under 131F does not fall into that category! - those permit holders can not purchase ammo or rifles/shotguns in Mass.

131E (b) regulates the purchase of firearms and ammo therefor - and lists Class A/B (131) or some excemptions (129C) to purchase those.

For me the indication that (b) only applies to firearms (handguns) is this passage: "...and provided further, that neiter a firearm identification card issued under section 129B, ...., shall be valid for the purpose of purchasing any firearm or ammunition feeding device therefor..."

...of course I might be wrong.
 
I can't comment on the specifics but I want to point out, that the word firearm applies to handguns only in certain circumstances in the MGLs. Not all times it is used does it reference handguns only. There is not a blanket definition of the term "firearm". There are times when the term is scoped to be covered under §131(a) or §131(b) but other times where it is not.
 
Last edited:
Kevlar said:
...nor shall any delivery of...ammunition be made to any...person not having...a firearm identification card issued under the provisions of section one hundred and twenty-nine B...
Click to expand...
http://www.malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXX/Chapter140/Section123
Click to expand...

Which should also include licenses issued under 131H...again 131H says "The permit issued to an alien under this section shall be subject to sections 129B and 129C"

I think this is just bad worded out - the intention of Mass. lawmakers with 131H was to create a license for resident aliens which is similar to a 129B FID card.
Instead of wording out 131H in all those sections where 129B is mentioned, the law just states that the 131H license is subject to 129B...

I think the confusion gets even greater as there is a second license an alien can get - the 131F license for non-resident citizens and aliens.
This is the license which does not allow the purchase of ammo and guns in Mass.


I can't see any reason why Mass. would pass a law for resident aliens to allow them to get a permit similar to FID, and then force them to buy their weapons and ammo in one of the neighbor states - think of all the revenue and tax dollars Mass would be losing.
 
the more I think about it, the more this issue is still not 100% clear, though...

when I went to the FRB for the interview the officer who took my pictures and 10-fingerprints for the FBI check explicitly told me that he needed also a separate picture of my right index so that when I would go and buy rifle and ammo they would check it against my real one...we even discussed how a purchase procedure would work for me. he did not say I had to go to out of state (where they would care less about my fingerprints...). was he wrong too?

my resident alien permit has my right index fingerprint on the back. if I can't buy in Mass, what is that for? decoration?

also, I still can't believe that if we were really prohibited from purchasing in Mass, MIRCS would allow the transaction anyway. at CJIS they ain't that stupid, they would flag us an "possess only". it would defy the purpose of all these checks and there would have been dozens of dealers out of a job, because they all sell to resident alien permit holders...

I'm going to talk to have to talk to a lawyer....that sucks


PS: aren't firearms defined at the beginning of the statute as handguns?
Section 121. As used in sections 122 to 131P, inclusive, the following words shall, unless the context clearly requires otherwise, have the following meanings:-
...
“Firearm”, a pistol, revolver or other weapon of any description, loaded or unloaded, from which a shot or bullet can be discharged and of which the length of the barrel or barrels is less than 16 inches or 18 inches in the case of a shotgun as originally manufactured; provided, however, that the term firearm shall not include any weapon that is: (i) constructed in a shape that does not resemble a handgun, short-barreled rifle or short-barreled shotgun including, but not limited to, covert weapons that resemble key-chains, pens, cigarette-lighters or cigarette-packages; or (ii) not detectable as a weapon or potential weapon by x-ray machines commonly used at airports or walk- through metal detectors.
 
The law is CLEAR (enough) here. Just because FRB can't keep their own rules straight is immaterial.

At the end of the day, even if you could LEGALLY purchase something, you are severely limited as to what. So this suit is far from useless. We are fighting so you will have all of the rights recognized for someone who has citizenship as it is in 46 other states and as it should be.
 
MMMAX said:
my resident alien permit has my right index fingerprint on the back. if I can't buy in Mass, what is that for? decoration?

also, I still can't believe that if we were really prohibited from purchasing in Mass, MIRCS would allow the transaction anyway. at CJIS they ain't that stupid, they would flag us an "possess only". it would defy the purpose of all these checks and there would have been dozens of dealers out of a job, because they all sell to resident alien permit holders...
Click to expand...

Not really. I'd bet most FFLs can count on one hand the number of resident alien permit holders in MA that they see in a year. For many dealers in the state that number is probably 0. The licenses are pretty rare in this state.

-Mike
 
...I'm fighting too, giving I'm GOAL member and I contribute to two second amendment groups....

based on the fact that the permit expires every year and that there were 10 people interviewed on my same day, I estimate ~50 x 10 x 5=2500 resident alien permit holders in the State...if they go to a store once a month that's 25,000 missed violations per year. that's a lot of violations, too many to make sense. something is amiss, you have to concede that.

"clear", even even with the qualifier "enough", is a big word when it comes to Mass gun laws...I actually think they do want them confused enough to keep people away from licenses, as the average resident alien has always this dangling sword of deportation swinging a few inches from his head, and a weapon law violation would not impress USCIS when we apply for citizenship.....so, I'll go to NH...but I won't drop this ball...yet.
 
MMMAX said:
...when I went to the FRB for the interview the officer who took my pictures and 10-fingerprints for the FBI check explicitly told me that he needed also a separate picture of my right index so that when I would go and buy rifle and ammo they would check it against my real one...we even discussed how a purchase procedure would work for me. he did not say I had to go to out of state (where they would care less about my fingerprints...). was he wrong too?...
Click to expand...

That's a good point!

They implemented the whole 131H process with fingerprinting included to be able to buy at Mass. dealers. It's a Mass. system that does not work in any other state.

Every resident alien who applies for a 131H permit has to do all fingers (for FBI background check) and then there is the extra right index finger scanning to be in the Mass. database...to be able to buy at a Mass. dealer. There is no other reason for that.

The FRB wouldn't have implemented the process that way - if 131H holders would be not allowed to buy in Mass...of course this is Mass....everything is possible [wink]


terraformer said:
At the end of the day, even if you could LEGALLY purchase something, you are severely limited as to what. So this suit is far from useless.
Click to expand...

You are right - there is too much unconstitutional stuff going on in Mass. firearms laws...for citizens and resident aliens.
This suit is far from useless - regardless if a 131H holder can purchase in Mass. or not this is just a small detail. All the other - more important - points still stand.

Thanks COMM2A!!
 

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