NH Alert: SB116. Still on the Gov's desk. ***Vetoed***

Send your letter.

Nothing today. Told them we had called earlier and were told they were with the chief waiting for approval and was told to check back tomorrow. I will check back tomorrow and.then I'll let you know.
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I will also be writing a response. I just need to word it.

BTW, here are the email addresses of those I emailed:

To: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected]
 
Dear Chief Dean Crombie,

I am writing with a concern that you are not following RSA 159:6 in regards to issuing Pistol and Revolver Licenses in the strict timeframe set forth by the law. The law clearly states all licenses are to be issued within 14 consecutive days from time of applicant submission. This limit is written into the law specifically to restrain abuse by law enforcement from hampering the rights of the individual.

This law does not grant you the right to extend the timeframe even one second beyond the 14 day timeframe, regardless of whether you feel you have gathered all information you personally deem relevant. If the 14th day arrives and you have no evidence indicating the person is not a prohibited person, it is your legal obligation to issue the license regardless of your feelings.

I shouldn't need to point out that the NH license has nothing to do with buying a firearm, and thus any claim that somehow issuing said license is somehow enabling a person you may think is a possible prohibited person from owning a firearm is completely baseless. You are not determining whether a NH resident may or may not own or carry a firearm at least openly. That determination is made by existing state law allowing open carry and during the actual purchase of a firearm which happens without a P&RL. It is also completely within your purview to revoke a permit at a later date should further evidence come forth that an individual is a prohibited person.

The 14 day limit written into the law is not a suggestion. It is not subject to your personal whim or want. It's a firm law that like any other, should not be violated. As citizens interested in defending rights, we are prepared to support any and all possible court litigation required to make sure you are following the law should we find individuals in your jurisdiction who are not being issued licenses within the 14 day limit. There are already court cases in NH setting precedent regarding this law.

If you are not familiar with those rulings I highly encourage you to research them. These decisions are clear about the rights of a NH citizen to have a PR&L issued in a timely manner. Those cases also tend to cost the jurisdictions who violated the law large sums of money both in court expenses and damages awarded.

As an officer of the law, I sincerely hope you are taking your duty to uphold all laws in a serious and honest manner.

Regards,
XTRY51
 
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Sent it out to the list with a couple minor grammar tweaks. We'll see if I get a response.

If anyone else can send one as well, even if it's just a few sentences about the timeframe and not a long letter it will help scare them a bit.
 
soloman02 said:
I actually got a response.

Apparently my letter is "threatening."

The person who is affected did not want me to provide his name.
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I assume he used "threatening" so he can send the correspondence along to your CoP, if different, to get you deemed unsuitable. It will probably be a denial upon your next renewal.
 
DispositionMatrix said:
I assume he used "threatening" so he can send the correspondence along to your CoP, if different, to get you deemed unsuitable. It will probably be a denial upon your next renewal.
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Good. Unlike some of the individuals I've talked to I have no compunction about suing. Hell, I was thinking about renewing a year early anyway just to see if I would get denied because I have a speeding ticket since the Dover Chief is antigun and we know chiefs are starting to or already are using anything to deny.

- - - Updated - - -

xtry51 said:
If this happened to me I would just OC everywhere and constantly send him selfies of me doing it.
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Oh I am thinking of doing that anyway if the CC bill fails. Just to spite Jasper and the dems (and the DoS).
 
soloman02 said:
Good. Unlike some of the individuals I've talked to I have no compunction about suing. Hell, I was thinking about renewing a year early anyway just to see if I would get denied because I have a speeding ticket since the Dover Chief is antigun and we know chiefs are starting to or already are using anything to deny.

- - - Updated - - -



Oh I am thinking of doing that anyway if the CC bill fails. Just to spite Jasper and the dems (and the DoS).
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So this has been one of the things sticking in my 'craw' so to speak during this ConCarry debate. Don't these same people arguing against this bill realize that we can legally open carry with NO permission slip? If we can do that then what is the problem with concealing? After all, wouldn't want to panic the sheep, right?
 
PennyPincher said:
So this has been one of the things sticking in my 'craw' so to speak during this ConCarry debate. Don't these same people arguing against this bill realize that we can legally open carry with NO permission slip? If we can do that then what is the problem with concealing? After all, wouldn't want to panic the sheep, right?
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This.. I don't understand these idiots.
 
PennyPincher said:
So this has been one of the things sticking in my 'craw' so to speak during this ConCarry debate. Don't these same people arguing against this bill realize that we can legally open carry with NO permission slip? If we can do that then what is the problem with concealing? After all, wouldn't want to panic the sheep, right?
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I think what is happening is that the CoP's now see that they can define "suitable" any way they want, and we are seeing it already where people are getting denied now that would not have been before the SC decision.

We want to remove that little bit of power and they are pissed they won't be able to lord it over us.

I'm more angry that the house voted to retain the bill. There are some stinky politics afoot...
 
PennyPincher said:
Don't these same people arguing against this bill realize that we can legally open carry with NO permission slip? If we can do that then what is the problem with concealing? After all, wouldn't want to panic the sheep, right?
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No, they do not understand. They have been told by law enforcement that if this bill passes we will have 12 year old's carrying guns to school. Why would they doubt the statements from law enforcement?

They believe that LEO's are safer if the person in the car has to be issued a license, as the police can be prepared for the person to have a gun (even though there isn't any such way for the LEO to "look it up" other than to call the person's local chief).
They believe that this regulation keeps guns out of the hands of criminals.
They believe that if the CC bill passes it's going to become the "wild west" where everyone will have a gun and everyone will be shooting everyone else.

No, they do not understand that this bill will not impact any of those "scary things". This bill only makes it possible for someone who is already qualified to legally posses a handgun to carry it in a inconspicuous manner without "permission".

It's really funny in some ways. CC (with a license) is legal in TX, but open carry is not. The argument in Texas is "we can't have people carrying handguns around openly, that would be terrifying." It's the exact opposite of the argument we are facing here, where open carry is already legal. People carrying hidden handguns around would be terrifying!!!
 
My response to the chief:

Chief Crombie,

You are really pushing for this persons name huh? Well unfortunately for you this individual asked I not name him. I can only assume he fears harassment.

This person has called the station several days in a row now, called again today was again told you do not have the license ready. Yesterday he was told "it was waiting for a signature by the chief" We are now on the 18th day. This person has no criminal record, thus there is no reason to be waiting for anything as he is not a prohibited person. As per RSA 159:6, you are to issue the license on the 14th day if no reason to deny is found. If the references do not respond, you issue the license as no response is not a reason for denial. If after issuance of the license, new information comes to light that the person is prohibited, you have the power to revoke a license. It has been done before.

Further, a handgun purchase background check performed by the NH State Police takes 20 minutes normally, 1 hour on a busy day and at most a day if there is a gun show happening in Concord or Manchester due to the backlog. If the NHSP can perform a background check in such a quick time frame, 14 days is more than enough time to perform a background check for you.

A statement that alleges you are not following statute is now considered threatening? You have been on the job a long time, you can't seriously be that thin skinned. Unless of course, you are knowingly ignoring the law and are deflecting. But what I allege is for a court to determine if you let it go that far. And this letter as well as any others you may have received, are to prevent that so frankly, you should be thanking me for letting you know that there are people out there watching to make sure you do in fact follow the law. I probably saved you several thousand dollars as a result. Your welcome.

Also, as to determining residency of the applicant, if you were following the "letter of the law" you would determine the residency of the applicant when you personally delivered the license to the applicant at the address they listed on the application. RSA 159:6 I.(b) states in part: "The original shall be delivered to the licensee and the duplicate shall be preserved by the people issuing the same for 4 years."

Speaking of residency, I was informed by another Somersworth resident that you were requiring each applicant provide a utility bill in 2014. That is illegal as the law only allows you to collect the information asked on the state application form. However it appears as though you have stopped this practice. Maybe you can also start following the law regarding the issuance or denial (in writing) of a license within 14 days.

This person is not the only one either. I have been informed that a woman who submitted an application at the same time is also having her application "held onto" and is being given the same excuses by your office. Seems we might have a pattern of abuse here. At least you are unlawfully holding up men and women's applications so I guess we can rule out sexism as the reason.

It also seems the elected officials I copied don't care either since this issue is still not resolved. Looks like the next course of action is to contact the media. I'm sure the Union Leader will just love a juicy story about a Chief who treats the law as a "guideline" and the elected officials who are more than willing to let said chief ignore the law.

Have a nice day,

soloman02
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soloman02 said:
Sometimes, the bear needs poking.
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Not exactly the same, but I like the poster....
polls_courage_3150_533446_poll_xlarge.jpeg
 
PennyPincher said:
I think it's time to consult with Comm2A and get something similar set up in NH to fight this bullshit.
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Working on it. I gave Terraformer Susan Olsen's contact info as he has info on another NH denial by a non-resident and well knows how COmm2A operates and is well positioned to at least explain what it is and how us activists in NH can help (as well as help by not setting bad precedent). I am not sure if he has contacted her though.
 
The bear is NOT happy. Lol.

Well if he isn't going to give his name how do we look it up, ???????? Tell your friend I talked to the clerk that handles this and she has NOT received any calls from anyone requesting their permit in the past 2 days nor has she had any voice mails. Now for the last time have him call me and we will do a search. Maybe it got lost or misplaced we do make mistakes. Lets stop playing games and act like adults. Any of these Officers can help.

Chief Crombie 692 9126 X 711
Capt Kretschmar X 714
Capt Timmons X 709
Cheryl Robinson, Clerk X 713
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It looks like the applicant might have called the wrong number by calling dispatch (the number on the Somersworth PD's sign) but still, Dispatch could have not been dicks and transferred them to the clerk or to the clerk's voicemail.

My gf said dispatch handled the calls and wouldn't patch her though
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The policy of Somersworth PD is to call when the license is ready. The fact that dispatch would not transfer does not matter as today is the 18th day. The license should be ready as both are not PP's. And even if they were, the denial letter should have been delivered to them on the 14th day.
 
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soloman02 said:
The bear is NOT happy. Lol.



It looks like the applicant might have called the wrong number by calling dispatch (the number on the Somersworth PD's sign) but still, Dispatch could have not been dicks and transferred them to the clerk or to the clerk's voicemail.



The policy of Somersworth PD is to call when the license is ready. The fact that dispatch would not transfer does not matter as today is the 18th day. The license should be ready as both are not PP's. And even if they were, the denial letter should have been delivered to them on the 14th day.
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So he's saying he has no oustanding permit applications at all? When you have two people you know submitted them? Either someone else is keeping him in the dark, or he's digging himself an evidentiary grave with this correspondence.
 
soloman02 said:
The bear is NOT happy. Lol.



It looks like the applicant might have called the wrong number by calling dispatch (the number on the Somersworth PD's sign) but still, Dispatch could have not been dicks and transferred them to the clerk or to the clerk's voicemail.



The policy of Somersworth PD is to call when the license is ready. The fact that dispatch would not transfer does not matter as today is the 18th day. The license should be ready as both are not PP's. And even if they were, the denial letter should have been delivered to them on the 14th day.
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Just a thought

But you could start calling the board of selectment and tell him that the chief is not following the law and putting the town at risk of several embarrasing and potentially costly lawsuits......
 
jpk said:
Just a thought

But you could start calling the board of selectment and tell him that the chief is not following the law and putting the town at risk of several embarrasing and potentially costly lawsuits......
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The mayor was cc'ed as were the state reps and state senator. But they are all dems and don't give a damn.
 
He's gotten two emails from you and one from me. He's still more interested in playing the denial game than just responding with something simple like "I will immediately look into any outstanding applications and make sure this isn't the case."

He could have done that and had a plausible defense. I don't get his two responses to you. They make no sense other than clarifying he's not going to be professional or do his job.
 
jpk said:
Just a thought

But you could start calling the board of selectment and tell him that the chief is not following the law and putting the town at risk of several embarrasing and potentially costly lawsuits......
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You ARE, of course, already doing this on social media, and alerting the TV/radio guys, though, right??
 
soloman02 said:
The mayor was cc'ed as were the state reps and state senator. But they are all dems and don't give a damn.
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Start expanding the cc list to include Dos, approprate committee's in House as well as all of the Reps in NH Senate

Turn it into a shitshow if the applicant is willing
 
The best way to attack this publicly is for the people currently beyond the deadline to contact the media and pursue legal action. At least getting a letter drafted to the CoP by a lawyer threatening action. I'd prefer full on litigation, but we need to be realistic on the cost of that and the willingness of the people affected to drag it out into the courts. I don't think it's an issue of winning the case, more the willingness of the applicants to see it through.
 

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