NH ACTION ALERT: HB1589 ***DEFEATED***

[design]

BILL WILL BE ON THE HOUSE FLOOR ON 2/12 at 10am
From Butler in this weeks calendar:

"NH is indeed one of the safest states in the country. That is, of course, due to a multiplicity of factors. One
of those factors is the care and respect gun owners throughout the state have towards the responsibility they
accept with gun ownership. The sponsors of this bill and those who support it do not see this effort at closing
the loophole on commercial sales as anything other than improving public safety. Several polls confirm that
at the least 84% of Granite Staters – including 60% of gun owners – support background checks to improve
public safety. This bill does that and it does it without infringing on the rights of responsible gun owners who
proudly own and carry guns. Vote 10-8." [yeah right!]

http://gencourt.state.nh.us/house/caljourns/calendars/2014/HC_9.pdf

emails are running 50/50 at the state house website. We need to step it up.

-design

 

[Admin]

Who is Butler?

 

[soloman02]

BILL WILL BE ON THE HOUSE FLOOR ON 2/12 at 10am
From Butler in this weeks calendar:

"NH is indeed one of the safest states in the country. That is, of course, due to a multiplicity of factors. One
of those factors is the care and respect gun owners throughout the state have towards the responsibility they
accept with gun ownership. The sponsors of this bill and those who support it do not see this effort at closing
the loophole on commercial sales as anything other than improving public safety. Several polls confirm that
at the least 84% of Granite Staters – including 60% of gun owners – support background checks to improve
public safety. This bill does that and it does it without infringing on the rights of responsible gun owners who
proudly own and carry guns. Vote 10-8." [yeah right!]

http://gencourt.state.nh.us/house/caljourns/calendars/2014/HC_9.pdf

emails are running 50/50 at the state house website. We need to step it up.

-design

50/50? Just before the committee hearing the emails were 30 to 1. Have the out of state groups gotten that many people on board now?

How the hell do you stop an out of state lobby from overwhelming locals?

 

[xtry51]

Does anyone here actually know a gun owner that supports private sales going through a dealer and NICS?

 

[soloman02]

Does anyone here actually know a gun owner that supports private sales going through a dealer and NICS?

Sadly I know one who seems kinda on the fence. IDK wtf happened but he changed when he went to work for SIG in the middle of 2013.

 

[design]

Call your reps, the good ones and ask them to help join the fight. Ask them to speak from the well to oppose this bill.
There are ~80 great reps on firearms and another 60 that can help. If all of them insist on speaking against this bill, the press will take notice.

-design

 

[design]

You can't stop them from lobbying, all you can do is bring in greater fire power.
BTW, the anti's have their own email lists and support network.
November 5th will tell us what NH actually thinks about this crap.
-design

 

[design]

Butler is the chair of the committee that passed this bill. A NYC transplant

He is graded a "D" by NHFC
http://www.nhfc-ontarget.org/2012/10/news/2012-general-grades_rep_carroll/

Carroll District 7 (1 Seats) Albany, Bartlett, Chatham, Conway, Eaton, Freedom, Hale’s Location, Hart’s Location, Jackson, Madison & Tamworth
D- Ed Butler (D) -Hart’s Location
A Norman A. Tregenza (R) -Conway

- See more at: http://www.nhfc-ontarget.org/2012/10/news/2012-general-grades_rep_carroll/#sthash.BpIca699.dpuf
-design

 

[soloman02]

You can't stop them from lobbying, all you can do is bring in greater fire power.
BTW, the anti's have their own email lists and support network.
November 5th will tell us what NH actually thinks about this crap.
-design

It still seems BS that out of state groups can email in and actually have an effect.

As to November 5, I'm going to run for state rep. I just need to clear it with my employer. They are wicked flexible (I peruse NES all day lol and they didn't care for a doctors note for being out for 4 days. Small businesses are awesome ) and the president even said not to worry about taking a vacation day when I went to the hearing so I don't think it will be an issue serving if elected.

I have a friend in Manch who is also looking to run but he faces a much larger battle than me. The R candidate lost by like 800 votes. The total spread between the top dem winner in my district and the first losing R was only 400 votes. That is a gap I think I can close with clever marketing, knowing a decent number of people in the area, and some luck that Republican turnout is good.

 

[NS_Northbound]

Does anyone here actually know a gun owner that supports private orsales going through a dealer and NICS?

The problem is that the common man hears "background check" and - given the constant barrage of anti gun media - quite logically associates them as a good thing.

Either people have to become better informed, I.e. they can take 5 mins out of their day to listen to why the govt promising unicorns might not be as perfect as it sounds;

Or we reframe the debate. If people are going to be uninformed, at least they can be prejudiced towards good ends as Burke would say. So for example "background checks" become "govt databases" or something similar which is naturally met with suspicion by everyday folks.

Or maybe (probably) both approaches should be used depending on the subjects, objects and circumstances.

 

[mikem317]

Doesn't this have to go to the Criminal Justice and Public Safety committee before making it to the House floor? Or is some stupid technicality where they're only doing the "penalty" portion or whatever?

 

[standfast86]

Doesn't this have to go to the Criminal Justice and Public Safety committee before making it to the House floor? Or is some stupid technicality where they're only doing the "penalty" portion or whatever?

Says in the House Record they'll only consider the penalty. How did the Commerce Cmmte get this bill anyway?

 

[soloman02]

Doesn't this have to go to the Criminal Justice and Public Safety committee before making it to the House floor? Or is some stupid technicality where they're only doing the "penalty" portion or whatever?

Dems have the majority in that committee AND Shurtleff is the vice chair. That committee will be passing this bill.

 

[mikem317]

Is the Senate really the only firewall here? GOP has a decent edge there.

What are the odds that it even passes the House? I would image plenty of Dems will be voting against it.

 

[soloman02]

Is the Senate really the only firewall here? GOP has a decent edge there.

What are the odds that it even passes the House? I would image plenty of Dems will be voting against it.

Assuming all republicans vote against, we need 20 dem votes. This also assumes all members show up to vote. As we saw with the Marijuana bill, something like 60 reps didn't show up to vote.The senate has a 2 vote lead over the dems.

 

[MikeRizz]

I don't even know what to say about this reply I received. I never mentioned anything about " gun shows " or cost so I have no idea WTF she is talking about!

" Anyway, what makes you think our local gun shop should have to bear the price of doing all the background check, when gun show hosts seem to get a free skate?

You go to a gun show you see a lot of nice guns, and vendors dealing with a lot of people. You go to gun shop you work with a professional firearm retailer who will help you buy what you need for your intended use.

Why do you want to make these out of state people who go from state to state, selling guns, a protected class, over your own privately owned local businesses?


Representative Suzanne Vail
Nashua, Ward 2
23 Hampshire Dr. Apt. C.
Nashua, NH 03063

 

[DispositionMatrix]

I don't even know what to say about this reply I received. I never mentioned anything about " gun shows " or cost so I have no idea WTF she is talking about!

" Anyway, what makes you think our local gun shop should have to bear the price of doing all the background check, when gun show hosts seem to get a free skate?

You go to a gun show you see a lot of nice guns, and vendors dealing with a lot of people. You go to gun shop you work with a professional firearm retailer who will help you buy what you need for your intended use.

Why do you want to make these out of state people who go from state to state, selling guns, a protected class, over your own privately owned local businesses?


Representative Suzanne Vail
Nashua, Ward 2
23 Hampshire Dr. Apt. C.
Nashua, NH 03063

Wut?

 

[Boghog1]

Susanne Vail has obviously never been to a gun show.

 

[xtry51]

Exactly.

She also hasn't been to many gun shops, because I know plenty of shops that the word "professional" would not even remotely enter your mind as a description of the staff.

 

[strangenh]

I don't even know what to say about this reply I received. I never mentioned anything about " gun shows " or cost so I have no idea WTF she is talking about!

You should reply and politely tell her that dealers selling guns to anyone who isn't a federally-licensed dealer anywhere in the US already must run background checks on buyers whether at a gun show or not, whether itinerant or not. This bill therefore in the end only is about registering noncommercial sales. There is no "protected class" being created other than the privacy of ordinary citizens who ask not to be put on government lists simply for exercising a right. Which right will be next?

 

[DispositionMatrix]

You should reply and politely tell her that dealers selling guns to anyone who isn't a federally-licensed dealer anywhere in the US already must run background checks on buyers whether at a gun show or not, whether itinerant or not. This bill therefore in the end only is about registering noncommercial sales. There is no "protected class" being created other than the privacy of ordinary citizens who ask not to be put on government lists simply for exercising a right. Which right will be next?

It smacks of a talking point she was handed by one of the gun restrictionist groups backing (and who probably wrote) the bill.

 

[strangenh]

It smacks of a talking point she was handed by one of the gun restrictionist groups backing (and who probably wrote) the bill.

It does. Do we think they aren't being fed NATIONAL party lines? Which is why she needs to hear something suggesting a completely different issue is at stake (which it is), from people who actually live here. Reality is, for this bill to die on the floor, it could well need 20 Democrats to not vote on party lines.

 

[PixelPusher]

You should reply and politely tell her that dealers selling guns to anyone who isn't a federally-licensed dealer anywhere in the US already must run background checks on buyers whether at a gun show or not, whether itinerant or not. This bill therefore in the end only is about registering noncommercial sales. There is no "protected class" being created other than the privacy of ordinary citizens who ask not to be put on government lists simply for exercising a right. Which right will be next?

I REALLY don't think she cares what reality is. That is the major problem with these people. They will say whatever they have to to get the sheep all stirred so they can have thier way.

They will bold face lie and cheat to push thier agenda.

 

[Kevin_NH]

Where do I go to see the latest version of this bill?

Is there a definitive source for the latest revision of NH HB1589?

Another approach to take is the cost -- not of enforcement, but the cost to NH residents for compliance with this bill, both in time, and in fees to FFLs. I'd mention that all inter-state transfers must already go through an FFL dealer, not all dealers want the hassle, and the ones who do charge $25 and up as their "nominal fee".

The extra burden of compliance with the new requirement will cost New Hampshire residents upwards of a million dollars a year, just using the estimated numbers from the anti-gunners own documents (40% of transactions are private, time to travel to a dealer, time to wait for a check to come back (could be a couple of hours on a weekend), etc.)

Aside from the privacy implications, HB1589 is a +$1M/year "tax" on gun owners.

 

[DispositionMatrix]

Is there a definitive source for the latest revision of NH HB1589?

Another approach to take is the cost -- not of enforcement, but the cost to NH residents for compliance with this bill, both in time, and in fees to FFLs. I'd mention that all inter-state transfers must already go through an FFL dealer, not all dealers want the hassle, and the ones who do charge $25 and up as their "nominal fee".

The extra burden of compliance with the new requirement will cost New Hampshire residents upwards of a million dollars a year, just using the estimated numbers from the anti-gunners own documents (40% of transactions are private, time to travel to a dealer, time to wait for a check to come back (could be a couple of hours on a weekend), etc.)

Aside from the privacy implications, HB1589 is a +$1M/year "tax" on gun owners.

Unfortunately, I don't think they care about cost either. Doesn't affect them but rather people they don't like--gun owners, who in their minds are equivalent to child murderers. We are dealing with gun restriction ideologues; they won't be persuaded by appeals for our plight.

However, it is possible they can be embarrassed--at least embarrassed for themselves as politicians. Without getting emails or statements over the phone off-track, sprinkling in some concern over of the racist roots of gun control (discussed in another thread) and gun control as class warfare is bound to get their attention. Nothing is going to put a Democrat on the defensive more than the risk of being portrayed as an anti-poor racist. At the very least, the staffer may actually read your whole email before deleting it. Of course, care should be taken not to actually accuse pols of being anti-poor racists. Tact is critical.

As a side note, perhaps to be discussed elsewhere as not to derail this thread, I am making it a point to reveal gun restrictionism as just that--an attack on the poor an minorities as much as it is an attack on others. Putting this to the test I have found it makes gun restrictionists _extremely_ uncomfortable and puts hoplophobes into a state of fearful confusion. I strongly believe this needs to be part of taking back control of the language of the non-debate over private gun ownership in the US.

 

[MikeRizz]

You should reply and politely tell her that dealers selling guns to anyone who isn't a federally-licensed dealer anywhere in the US already must run background checks on buyers whether at a gun show or not, whether itinerant or not. This bill therefore in the end only is about registering noncommercial sales. There is no "protected class" being created other than the privacy of ordinary citizens who ask not to be put on government lists simply for exercising a right. Which right will be next?

I did. I think she is very confused. Good to know she represents the people and has no clue what the bill even is. Sigh.

 

[Admin]

" Anyway, what makes you think our local gun shop should have to bear the price of doing all the background check, when gun show hosts seem to get a free skate?

You go to a gun show you see a lot of nice guns, and vendors dealing with a lot of people. You go to gun shop you work with a professional firearm retailer who will help you buy what you need for your intended use.

Why do you want to make these out of state people who go from state to state, selling guns, a protected class, over your own privately owned local businesses?


Representative Suzanne Vail
Nashua, Ward 2
23 Hampshire Dr. Apt. C.
Nashua, NH 03063

Ms. Vail, what you've just said... is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul...

 

[Admin]

I figured it out, my theory on women with two last names is still batting 1.000

https://www.facebook.com/SuzanneMercierVail

 

[xtry51]

Dude, Bill Maher all over her page.

I couldn't help but post on her complaint about laws on women's health being exactly how she treats us with guns.

 

[Klaus]

I don't even know what to say about this reply I received. I never mentioned anything about " gun shows " or cost so I have no idea WTF she is talking about!

" Anyway, what makes you think our local gun shop should have to bear the price of doing all the background check, when gun show hosts seem to get a free skate?

You go to a gun show you see a lot of nice guns, and vendors dealing with a lot of people. You go to gun shop you work with a professional firearm retailer who will help you buy what you need for your intended use.

Why do you want to make these out of state people who go from state to state, selling guns, a protected class, over your own privately owned local businesses?


Representative Suzanne Vail
Nashua, Ward 2
23 Hampshire Dr. Apt. C.
Nashua, NH 03063

Tell her she makes a very good point: New Hampshire should nullify the requirement for background checks at FFLs.