New P938. Trigger Questions.

soloman02

soloman02

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So I just got a brand spanking new SIG p938 Nightmare. You all are going to hate me because I got it for the awesome low price of $411.50 [cheers] thanks to a friend who now works at SIG and didn't have enough extra money to use all his employee discounts for himself.

The safety was stiff but that is to be expected on a new gun. After about 250 rounds and me working it a bit, it is much better. No malfunctions so far and no cleaning done yet.

Anyway, the gun shoots great with one exception. The trigger. Since the trigger is much more weight than I am used to, all my shots pull to the left.

I am apparently rather used to my SR9c's 5.5lb trigger. The trigger range for the P938 is 7.5-8.5lbs, which is strikingly more than my SR9c. I have no problems carrying my 1911 cocked and locked which has a much lighter trigger (and way less travel). So I am looking to reduce the trigger pull weight. I've seen that you can get reduced power hammer springs (Galloway precision sells them but they are OOS currently). However I have also seen videos that suggest that you need to disassemble damn near the whole gun just to remove this spring (it is effectively the mainspring that a 1911 has).


Has anyone done this? And if so, what did you do? Did you have to disassemble everything?

I'm going to call the custom shop Monday but I wanted to know if anyone has done this on their own.


Oh and the gun came with the flush fit 6 round mag, which is not usable to me since my pinky has nothing to grip. The gun is fully concealable in my pocket with the extended mag (seen below) so I really have no need for it.

And now for a pic because pics are awesome.


1491560_10153671112295085_1773823844_o.jpg
 
I have nothing of value to add, except congrats! The 938 is on my short list of things I would like to procure in the coming year. I dry fired one at the pro shop, I thought the trigger was lighter, however I am used to the DA pull of the 226.
 
Yes, congrats... especially on the price! I have a P938 SAS that I have yet to fire, so I can't add anything as far as the trigger matter goes. However, I will be interested to see what you find out.
 
So I called SIG and they WILL NOT lower the trigger pull. They claim having a 7.5+ trigger pull is a "safety issue" because the gun is carried "cocked and locked." They obviously forget that they and everybody else sells 1911's with factory 5 pound trigger pulls (sometimes even lower) that people carry "cocked and locked" all day long.

I was told that ANY non factory parts will void the warranty, even if installed by a SIG certified gunsmith. Apparently, SIG has their panties in a bunch when it comes to aftermarket parts, even when installed by a SIG armorer. That said, how the hell will they know you swapped out the stock hammer spring with any of the ones below by looking at it is beyond me. That said, I was advised to have a gunsmith lower the trigger pull. Everything I can find suggests that one must detail strip the whole lower frame of the gun to replace the hammer spring.

Everything I can find says that the P938 uses the Colt Mustang hammer spring. You can choose the one from Galloway or you can do what I am doing and buy the Reduced power hammer Spring from Wolff Springs.

http://www.gunsprings.com/Semi-Auto Pistols/COLT/MUSTANG & PONY/cID1/mID1/dID68

http://gallowayprecision.com/sig-sauer/p938-p238/hammer-spring-for-sig-p938-p238/


I also inquired about having the ambidextrous safety made non ambidextrous. SIG will perform this service. It will cost $99 plus shipping of $55 ($27 for NH residents) and will take two weeks. You will need to call customer service and get a work order scheduled.
 
>>So I called SIG and they WILL NOT lower the trigger pull.<<

I would have been surprised if they HAD agreed to do it.
 
I also would have been stunned if they'd agreed to do a trigger job. Liability issue. Remember that the 938 does not have a grip safety like a standard 1911 does. If the safety is forgotten or accidentally bumped off only that trigger is standing in the way of a ND. And there's no trigger safety like most striker DAO guns.
 
We're not talking about making it a hair trigger of 2-3lbs here. 5.5-6 lbs is normal trigger weight for semi-autos.

Furthermore, why does everyone talk like guns just magically go off on their own?

If a gun is in the holster and the safety is swept off, nothing happens. Once you grab the gun, well in the case of a 1911, the grip safety is deactivated, so in effect a 938 being held is the same as a 1911 being held. I don't know about you, but I and most everyone else out there trains to disengage the thumb safety as they are bringing the firearm into the ready to fire position pointed at the target. So again, in that scenario, 1911 and 938 are one and the same.

Having fired the 938 I can tell you it is not a trigger with almost zero travel like a 1911. The trigger does have some travel. I believe that the travel is similar to that of an SR9c (Glock style trigger). Below is a video demonstrating the travel.

[video=youtube_share;GoOvJWjqPU8]http://youtu.be/GoOvJWjqPU8[/video]
 
The Sig assemblers have no idea how to build these things. All you need to do is bend the sear spring back a little because they bent it too far forward.

You could grab 10 off the shelf and have 10 different trigger pulls ranging from too light to too heavy and everywhere in between.

If you don't get it sorted out with Sig, send it to me and I will take care of you. I worked for Sig for 3 years and before I left, I was the classic line assembly repair tech and also worked on 938/238 guns when classic line repair was slow. I have fixed or repaired more than a few hundred of them.
 
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GraniteStateGunWorks said:
The Sig assemblers have no idea how to build these things. All you need to do is bend the sear spring back a little because they bent it too far forward.

You could grab 10 off the shelf and have 10 different trigger pulls ranging from too light to too heavy and everywhere in between.

If you don't get it sorted out with Sig, send it to me and I will take care of you. I worked for Sig for 3 years and before I left, I was the classic line assembly repair tech and also worked on 938/238 guns when classic line repair was slow. I have fixed or repaired more than a few hundred of them.
Click to expand...

If it is bent back a bit will that get it to 5.5-6 lbs? I'm just looking to make it consistent weight wise with my SR9c since that is my main full power (aka not a 22lr) training and carry handgun. While I haven't weighed my SR9c ( I don't have the proper scale to do so) it is supposed to be 5-6lbs from the factory.

BTW, are you in business for yourself as a dealer or gun smith?
 
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GraniteStateGunWorks said:
The Sig assemblers have no idea how to build these things. All you need to do is bend the sear spring back a little because they bent it too far forward.

You could grab 10 off the shelf and have 10 different trigger pulls ranging from too light to too heavy and everywhere in .
Click to expand...

This! I know of more than one dealer that had to send back P238 and 938,s by the 10's and 20's brand new as NONE of the entire shipments they received we up to any quality standard in terms of trigger pull
 
My retail location opens in February. I'm a class 3 dealer with a 01 sales/gunsmithing FFL and I'm in the process of changing my FFL to a 07 manufacturing FFL.

I don't know what their "gunsmiths" will come up with for a fix. I just know what I would do.
 
I'm not saying it should be any particular weight, I'm just explaining why Sig isn't going to be willing to do it for you.



soloman02 said:
We're not talking about making it a hair trigger of 2-3lbs here. 5.5-6 lbs is normal trigger weight for semi-autos.

Furthermore, why does everyone talk like guns just magically go off on their own?

If a gun is in the holster and the safety is swept off, nothing happens. Once you grab the gun, well in the case of a 1911, the grip safety is deactivated, so in effect a 938 being held is the same as a 1911 being held. I don't know about you, but I and most everyone else out there trains to disengage the thumb safety as they are bringing the firearm into the ready to fire position pointed at the target. So again, in that scenario, 1911 and 938 are one and the same.

Having fired the 938 I can tell you it is not a trigger with almost zero travel like a 1911. The trigger does have some travel. I believe that the travel is similar to that of an SR9c (Glock style trigger). Below is a video demonstrating the travel.

[video=youtube_share;GoOvJWjqPU8]http://youtu.be/GoOvJWjqPU8[/video]
Click to expand...
 
I've ordered a skeletonized stainless trigger and a Galloway Precision reduced strength hammer spring, which is supposed to reduce trigger pull a bit. Many people are complaining about the trigger grit in the P938s. I think that while I'm in there I'll see what some polishing can do.
 
EvolutionArmory said:
The Sig assemblers have no idea how to build these things. All you need to do is bend the sear spring back a little because they bent it too far forward.

You could grab 10 off the shelf and have 10 different trigger pulls ranging from too light to too heavy and everywhere in between.
Click to expand...

Yup. When I bought mine last week the first one had a very noticeable travel after the initial stop. It's just a bit of mushiness before it goes bang. I asked to try another one and the second one was noticeably better than the first so I bought that one. But it's still there so I'll have to fix it. Even that tiny amount of travel with the heavy trigger pull is causing unacceptable misses.
 
I love my P238...except for that damn 10# trigger pull! That, and the way it pinches your finger between the trigger and the trigger guard.
 
I did Cosmo123's gun a little while ago and he seems pleased with the results. I got it down to around 4.5 pounds and it breaks clean.

I polished up the sear and hammer engagement points, adjusted the sear spring and replaced the mainspring with a lighter weight spring for a Colt Mustang.

Its very manageable now.

We are accepting 238/938 work if anyone is interested.
 
EvolutionArmory said:
I did Cosmo123's gun a little while ago and he seems pleased with the results. I got it down to around 4.5 pounds and it breaks clean.

I polished up the sear and hammer engagement points, adjusted the sear spring and replaced the mainspring with a lighter weight spring for a Colt Mustang.

Its very manageable now.

We are accepting 238/938 work if anyone is interested.
Click to expand...

What does something like that cost to have done?
 
I know this is an older thread, but wanted to give an update on a recently acquired 938:

I am up to 500 rounds. Here are some things I have noticed:

Trigger: Out of the box, even though it looks like a 1911 and feels like a mini 1911, it had a trigger which reminds me of a DAO, 9 pounds trigger and quite a bit of travel as a revolver I have.

This is due to the following which I noticed/happened during break in:
-Trigger travel: since it is a rotating trigger, unlike the 1911's sliding trigger, it has to pivot, different finger placement results in different pull lengths.
-Frame finish: The nitron finish isn't the smoothest, but after 500 rounds, the critical areas have smoothed themselves out.
-Ejector: The ejector doubles as the dis-connector as well. When you squeezed the trigger, it rotates forward, which allows the firing pin blocker to drop. Unlike the 1911's grip safety accomplishing this, the trigger does double duty which is why the trigger pull is so long.
-sear/hammer hook: Initially, I broke it all down to inspect it and noticed how rough the hammer hook/sear face were while looking under a 4X magnifying glass. The result in the first 50 or so shots fired resulted in a trigger that had a high pull, and felt very gritty. After those shots, I cleaned everything and dry fired another 100-200 times, if not more (did this while watching TV, so lost count). Went to the range and shot another 200 rounds and noticed an improvement. Cleaned, shot another 250 rounds, and completely dissembled it. The critical friction areas are now shiny which results in friction. While the trigger still has the same pull length, it has smoothed out quite noticeably and speculate that the weight is now lower, probably around 7-6 lbs. Upon viewing the hammer hooks and sear though a 4X magnifying glass again, the mating surfaces are now smooth with a shiny surface.

Accuracy both out of the box and so far is quite impressive considering the size and weight of the pistol and my skill level, If someone is in the market or has one of these, I strongly suggest you spend some time with snap caps ahead of time to help break the firearm in.
 
Here is a BIG fyi for 938 owners...

One thing to keep an eye on is the trigger bar during cleaning and maintenance with the grips off.
If you aren't paying attention, the trigger bar can slip up over the disconnect bar. When you put the grips on the trigger bar gets squeezed and the gun will fail.
This first happened to me a few months ago and the last time I did some thorough cleaning I forgot to check it and sure enough when I got to the range the gun would not fire. I knew exactly what the problem was and fixed it at the range. You will feel friction in the trigger and all sorts of things can happen.

Top picture shows normal disconnect and trigger bar. Bottom pic shows the trigger bar sitting on top of the disconnect bar. If you are not careful it's easy to hit the trigger bar while cleaning and move it up over the disconnect bar.


Hammer2_zps8f766456.jpg


Hammer1_zps4eac02ff.jpg
 
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Soloman,

your post got got me thinking because I love my 938 just the way it is! It's the Rosewood Mass Compliant model. So upon reading your post, I ran up to test things out again. My findings on the MA version:

1. I measured 5.7 to 6 pounds with 5 trials using my electronic gage, I know it's accurate

2. I also noticed that the trigger hinge /leverage creates a big variation in trigger pull depending on where exactly you pull. I measured a little over 5 pounds at the very bottom of the trigger, and close to 9 pounds at the very top.

so perhaps there is a difference due to versions, perhaps also because of the exact location of the trigger finger. I am consistently able to hit a dime sized target at 40 feet with my laserlyte cartridge with all stock components - and that is saying a lot. I am a trigger wuss, constantly tuning down my competition 1911's.
 
All I have for pistols are 1911's, does this trigger's characteristics (more pull weight at the top vs bottom) make sense for those of you that have SA pistols of similar style trigger?
 
I got my 238 smoothed out pretty much. I used foam cylindrical ear plug, cut in half placed in front of the hammer, between hammer and firing pin and kept cocking and dry firing it. As the ear plug flattened out I put the other half in also to act as a buffer.

Too frugal to buy snap caps.
 
Last edited:
RImike said:
All I have for pistols are 1911's, does this trigger's characteristics (more pull weight at the top vs bottom) make sense for those of you that have SA pistols of similar style trigger?
Click to expand...

I regrettably just sold mine last night due to other obligations so I can't check, but from what I remember it's a bit different. I've had three 1911's and on those you have a short travel with tension from the sear spring, then the stop, then it fires. The 938 doesn't have the same feel before the stop which makes sense because it's a different design.

In my opinion, the only real similarity to a 1911 is in the overall appearance, trigger appearance and reset. Pretty much everything else is different. It doesn't have a trigger bow. It's a bar as shown in my previous post and there's no sear spring. It's really a completely different gun aside from appearance.

Oh and another similarity is that it's extremely accurate, especially for such a small pistol.
 
Last edited:
yanici said:
I got my 238 smoothed out pretty much. I used foam cylindrical ear plug, cut in half placed in front of the hammer, between hammer and firing pin and kept cocking and dry firing it. As the ear plug flattened out I put the other half in also to act as a buffer.

Too frugal to buy snap caps.
Click to expand...

How many times fired would you speculate doing this?

- - - Updated - - -

6Gears1Speed said:
I regrettably just sold mine last night due to other obligations so I can't check, but from what I remember it's a bit different. I've had three 1911's and on those you have a short travel with tension from the sear spring, then the stop, then it fires. The 938 doesn't have the same feel before the stop which makes sense because it's a different design.

In my opinion, the only real similarity to a 1911 is in the overall appearance, trigger appearance and reset. Pretty much everything else is different. It doesn't have a trigger bow. It's a bar as shown in my previous post and there's no sear spring. It's really a completely different gun aside from appearance.

Oh and another similarity is that it's extremely accurate, especially for such a small pistol.
Click to expand...

I agree, it is indeed an accurate little firearm, and reliable to, I haven't had a malfunction yet. One interesting thing is that you can squeeze the trigger with the hammer down, and the sear rotates, just nothing to let it go. I am most likely going to be doing the frog lube treatment on all the internal parts.
 

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