New Guns for a new shooter.

[Darksideblues42]

Background:

One of my sales guys lives outside Minneapolis in a fairly affluent community. He happens to be of the Asian persuasion, his parents were from Taiwan. (It is relevant)

One of his neighbors (also an Asian man, direct from Japan) came home from the hospital (Gall Bladder, NOT COVID-19, but they took him in an ambulance) to a note on his door, saying in effect, "Get your Chinese ass back to China and take your heathen commie VIRUS with you" Signed "Your Good Christian AMERICAN Neighbor"



Co-worker now wants a rifle, shotgun, and handgun for himself.

Has $3500 total to spend. Wants something that takes AR magazines, preferably a semi-auto shotgun, and a 9mm handgun with good reliability, and enough mass to reduce recoil in case his wife or 19 year old daughter need to use it in a pinch.

Suggestions? Maintenance isn't his strong suit, and he loved my Piston AR (Daewoo DR-200) as it was solid and well balanced, as compared to the DI AR-15 he tried shooting. He also prefers real steel for a handgun vs polymer.


Thoughts? Suggestions?

 

[TZCHRIS]

Sig MCX Virtus, just got this, pretty awesome! Paid $2100 in Vegas, saw them for 1500 in NH

 

[mac1911]

he should contact the roof top Koreans for armament suggestions

for me 870, any decent hand gun really , Rifle......?
At the moment he would have to just get what he can

 

[DarthRevan]

A Virtus seems cool but a Tavor X95 would be my pick.
either a 226 Sig or 92 Beretta
And a 1301 Beretta semi shotgun.
Just about within budget.
But honestly, a bunch of AR patterned rifles with red dots would be best. Shotgun recoil can be too much for people that don’t go shooting much, and pistols are harder than rifles for the untrained.

 

[Darksideblues42]

He found a used 6906 from S&W, police trade in, QTY 10 15 round mags with it. $550, looks damn near new.

I told him to jump on it.

 

[Deleted member 67409]

*Browning Hi-Power or Glock 17
*Mossberg 930 or 940
*DIY AR Build

 

[Darksideblues42]

*Browning Hi-Power or Glock 17
*Mossberg 930 or 940
*DIY AR Build

The Glock is out, he is not a fan of polymer, too "snappy"

 

[Deleted member 67409]

The Glock is out, he is not a fan of polymer, too "snappy"

Then embrace the Hi Power.

 

[upcountry]

My front hall closet gun--Mossberg 930 SPX.
Then something like a Beretta 92 to go with it.

 

[Nick Leduc]

He should buy mid range anything, rest on ammo and get used to running them.

 

[gerrycaruso]

Benelli M4, CZ75 and any AR15 because he wants something that uses AR magazines. I'd opt for an AK because I think it's more reliable if less accurate but who cares. He doesn't need it for long range shooting.

 

[Silverado]

IDK I would buy base upon the circumstances he would use it and his needs. A pistol, a shotgun okay but how would he use something like an AR 15 unless it's just plinking.

 

[Glockster30]

He found a used 6906 from S&W, police trade in, QTY 10 15 round mags with it. $550, looks damn near new.

I told him to jump on it.

The 6906 is a compact that came with 12-round mags. The 15-round mags are going to stick out unless they have grip adapters on them.

 

[Darksideblues42]

The 6906 is a compact that came with 12-round mags. The 15-round mags are going to stick out unless they have grip adapters on them.

5906 (fat fingered the phone keys)

 

[Rockrivr1]

With the way ammo is turning out you should tell him to jump on whatever he can find with some of that money.

 

[Eugenio.FV]

Man, people suck. Good on him for arming himself from f***ed up in the head neighbors.

If its purely for HD, maybe switch the AR for a PCC? Maybe a Tavor X95 in 9mm?
As for handgun, the 226 seems like a solid choice for what he wants, but the trigger reach might be a tad long if the wife and daughter wants to shoot it.

 

[moojpg2]

870 police or mossberg 500

Beretta 92fs or Sig 226/228/229

16" M4 ish AR15

That combo has served Americans very well for literally decades, no reason to change it now.

 

[m_n_x]

5906 (fat fingered the phone keys)

Great gun and won't be "snappy" for sure. The wife and daughter may find the grip a little beefy.

 

[Darksideblues42]

With the way ammo is turning out you should tell him to jump on whatever he can find with some of that money.

Thankfully, he has a former colleague that has the ammo side covered for him. The colleague is an automation engineer and set up his reloading process with a series of sensors, raspberry Pi systems, and a crapload of motors and mechanical things. He picks up the brass barrels from the local range and has a system that sorts it, pushes the old primers, gets it ready to wash, checks the case length and trims if needed. When he wants to load, he grabs a bin of brass, a bin of primers, a bin of projectiles, and a couple jugs of powder, sets them in the hoppers, presses a few buttons, loads the dies, and comes back in a couple hours.

It even checks the weight of the case before powder, after powder, and knows the projectile weight so if something is off by more than 2%, it gets spit into the reject bin.

 

[moojpg2]

Man, people suck. Good on him for arming himself from f***ed up in the head neighbors.

If its purely for HD, maybe switch the AR for a PCC? Maybe a Tavor X95 in 9mm?
As for handgun, the 226 seems like a solid choice for what he wants, but the trigger reach might be a tad long if the wife and daughter wants to shoot it.

My girlfriend has smaller hands and shoots all the full size service pistols just fine. I always use a 226 or 92fs to introduce new shooters. The da/sa with decocker is great for that and they are nice and mild to shoot.

 

[PEW]

Its probably worth considering a rifle that is NOT chambered in .223

He will not be able to get 223 ammo for a while - an alternative caliber could provide very similar functionality and much better availability. 6.8 SPC, 300 BO, etc.

edit - ah, missed post 19.

 

[highlander]

Handgun many a good choice in DA/SA semi autos just a matter of caliber I've a CZ 75 and a Beretta 92fs 9mm,rifle AR 15 in 223 easily obtainable ammo 20/30 rd kags standard. Shotgun,Mossberg,Remington or other name brand just a matter of pump or semi 12 or 20 gauge. I call the local authorities about the note puts them on notice of a possible hate crime should things go south plus the neighbor sounds like a real piece of work.

 

[E.Stoner]

To some extent new shooters have no idea what they actually want/need. I would always go to the tried and true standards: guns that are common and "boring". The primary consideration should be quality, reliability, easy to service, aftermarket support. First guns are first guns, he will get more if he likes them. He wont like them if they break, dont work reliably, or takes a PhD to service.
Handguns:
Glock 19/17 (i know he doesn't want plastic), Sig 226, CZ75 SP-01, Beretta 92

Shotgun:
Rem 870 Police/ Beretta 1031 tactical

Rifle:
Quality factory AR: BCM, FN, S&W, SOLGW, Aero

 

[Al-Jim19]

Any AR from a decent manufacturer, as well as a reasonable optic and sling. 10 magazines required.

A sig p226/9. At least 1 quality holster/belt and 5 magazines.

I much prefer mossberg shotguns and my 930 has been great. Id add a sling and one of those elastic stock shell holders.

Outside that ammo and some armor/a good way to carry magazines would be at the top if my list.

 

[JRT]

*Browning Hi-Power or Glock 17
*Mossberg 930 or 940
*DIY AR Build

Your recommendations to a new shooter are an out of production pistol sourced on the used market and an AR build?

 

[Deleted member 67409]

Your recommendations to a new shooter are an out of production pistol sourced on the used market and an AR build?

The guy's going to buy a 5906, which went out of production a generation before the BHP. And the guy's an automation engineer, so, I think he can handle putting pins into an AR receiver.

 

[E.Stoner]

With a $3000 dollar budget there really isn't a reason not to get new production guns. For a new shooter its best to have something that works and if it doesn't you can follow up with the shop you bought it from or the factory.
If your first and only AR is a budget build that is money flushed down the drain. By a factory rifle first, then build one for fun/education.
Believe it or not AR's aren't legos and there is actually some subltly to putting together one correctly. At the very least you should get a factory assembled upper with a BCG.

Athough if I had only $3500 I would buy only a high-quality pistol and a rifle and spend the rest on ammo, mags and an optic, weaponlights.

 

[straightshooterjake]

I am a Range Safety Officer, and I deal with a lot of new shooters. And dealing with the opinions of new shooters is always an issue, because their opinions are not really worth anything.

Let me explain. You don't know what fits your hand, or whether you like traditional double action, or whether a thumb safety is a good idea until you have run a couple of thousand rounds with the system in question. What a beginner feels when he first picks something up has a little value, but not much. At the same, you have to respect people's opinions, or you will turn them off, and then you can never make progress.

So when you want to help a beginner, you need to strike a balance between respecting what they say and firmly directing them in a good direction. And in this case, the good direction is choose known service weapons. Weapons that have been issued in large numbers, to all different sizes and shapes of people, and have a proven record of reliable service. So the S&W 5906 is acceptable, though not my favorite. Glock, Sig P229 or 320, and Beretta 92 are also good choices. Police trade-in is fine. Tell the beginner, "I understand that you prefer steel, but we need proven service pistols quickly, and you can upgrade in the future." Police surplus shotguns and mid-grade commercial AR15's at about the $800 price point are good too. Cheaper AR15's would be acceptable.

Also, in this particular situation, get multiple guns. Do not spend the $3500 on a Tavor, get two AR's, three shotguns, or multiple pistols. Think four or more guns in total, not two or three. Multiples insure that at least one will be working and that other family members can be armed.

And one additional recommendation for this crazy time, lever action rifles are a decent choice if nothing better is available. These were common service rifles for law enforcement for 100 years, and they still work. And in previous ammo shortages 30-30 has always remained available. I would prefer an MSR or a PCC, but if there is nothing left but "hunting rifles," these can work. And the prices should be moderate.

 

[308rifleman]

Background:

One of my sales guys lives outside Minneapolis in a fairly affluent community. He happens to be of the Asian persuasion, his parents were from Taiwan. (It is relevant)

One of his neighbors (also an Asian man, direct from Japan) came home from the hospital (Gall Bladder, NOT COVID-19, but they took him in an ambulance) to a note on his door, saying in effect, "Get your Chinese ass back to China and take your heathen commie VIRUS with you" Signed "Your Good Christian AMERICAN Neighbor"



Co-worker now wants a rifle, shotgun, and handgun for himself.

Has $3500 total to spend. Wants something that takes AR magazines, preferably a semi-auto shotgun, and a 9mm handgun with good reliability, and enough mass to reduce recoil in case his wife or 19 year old daughter need to use it in a pinch.

Suggestions? Maintenance isn't his strong suit, and he loved my Piston AR (Daewoo DR-200) as it was solid and well balanced, as compared to the DI AR-15 he tried shooting. He also prefers real steel for a handgun vs polymer.


Thoughts? Suggestions?

OK, by your description, this guy is a real greenhorn. For his sake and that of his family, who might also need to use the weapon, let's keep it real simple. My choice would be a stock 20 gauge Remington 870. I would buy 50 rounds of slug and 50 rounds of buck, so he and his family can get in some practice, plus another 100 rounds of mixed slug and buck to keep for home defense. There is a lot of truth to the old saying about being wary of the man who only owns one gun: he likely knows it well and can use it very effectively!

 

[Darksideblues42]

The guy's going to buy a 5906, which went out of production a generation before the BHP. And the guy's an automation engineer, so, I think he can handle putting pins into an AR receiver.

The guy is not an automation engineer, he is a sales guy. His former colleague from a previous company is the automation engineer.